I know we're all going to have different perspectives on this, but I don't agree that any Stargate is better than no Stargate. It's not just about the characters and the actors. It's more that just about everything I associate with Stargate came from the TV series, not the movie. Even the basic idea of a network of gates. And I don't think the Star Trek analogy fits here - it's a completely different situation. The Star Trek reboot has not attempted to erase the previous canon. It's still there, just in a different timeline. From my perspective, a better analogy would be Buffy the Vampire Slayer. How would people react if they decided to go back and do a sequel to the original movie and go in a completely different direction? No Willow, no Xander, no Angel, no Giles....no Sunnydale or Hellmouth. I don't think it would go over well. I guess to me, the original movie is no more part of the Stargate franchise than the original Buffy movie is part of the Buffy/Angel 'verse. And no, I'm not fond enough of the spinning ring to say that I'd rather erase 15 seasons of universe building than have no Stargate at all. Sorry. Sure, maybe Stargate will be rebooted eventually, whether as a Next Gen type series or a complete remake (like Hawaii Five-0 or BSG). But I think any successful reboot will have to acknowledge the TV show canon in some way, as Star Trek did, and not attempt to completely erase it.
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Last edited by Killdeer; 25 September 2013, 11:00 PM.- Life after Stargate -Agent Carter * Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. * The Blacklist * Castle * Elementary * GrimmHawaii Five-0 * The Mentalist * NCIS * NCIS:LA * Once Upon a Time * Rizzoli & Islessigpic
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Originally posted by Killdeer View PostI know we're all going to have different perspectives on this, but I don't agree that any Stargate is better than no Stargate. It's not just about the characters and the actors. It's more that just about everything I associate with Stargate came from the TV series, not the movie. Even the basic idea of a network of gates. And I don't think the Star Trek analogy fits here - it's a completely different situation. The Star Trek reboot has not attempted to erase the previous canon. It's still there, just in a different timeline. From my perspective, a better analogy would be Buffy the Vampire Slayer. How would people react if they decided to go back and do a sequel to the original movie and go in a completely different direction? No Willow, no Xander, no Angel, no Giles....no Sunnydale or Hellmouth. I don't think it would go over well. I guess to me, the original movie is no more part of the Stargate franchise than the original Buffy movie is part of the Buffy/Angel 'verse. And no, I'm not fond enough of the spinning ring to say that I'd rather erase 15 seasons of universe building than have no Stargate at all. Sorry. Sure, maybe Stargate will be rebooted eventually, whether as a Next Gen type series or a complete remake (like Hawaii Five-0 or BSG). But I think any successful reboot will have to acknowledge the TV show canon in some way, as Star Trek did, and not attempt to completely erase it.
"Five Rounds Rapid"
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Originally posted by Flyboy View PostBut it's NOT erased. One does not supercede the other. It's just different. SG-1 will STILL be on your shelf.
I could sooner see the argument with Buffy simply because Stargate is a fantastic concept, Superman is a fantastic concept, and Buffy is a stupid concept made great by a special creative team. Buffy is Joss Whedon, he's said as much recently, that all those years he thought he was writing Xander as himself, but towards the end he realized Buffy was him.
Stargate on the other hand is just a strong concept. I do think they'd do well to borrow from RDA's style of not playing it completely straight--for one, that seems more realistic, as humans tend to crack a joke here and there.Last edited by Ripple in Space; 27 September 2013, 08:53 PM.sigpic"Most of our John Sheppard impressions sound more like a demented Jimmy Stewart than Joe Flanigan."
~David Hewlett
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for me, if it's rebooted in the emmerich/devlin way, it won't be *stargate*.
stargate's not just the round thing that spins and takes ppl to other planets, but the characters and history and mythology that the series took hold of and brought to glorious life.
a reboot is not *needed* to bring stargate back. if stargate were off for 10 years, i could possibly see this subject having some merit. but jeez, the actors aren't *that* old , and that's what would make any comeback the hardest to work around.
it needs a comeback, not a reboot.
as someone on 'blastr' said on this subject: "I don't think a "Re-Boot" is needed just some fresh ideas while staying within what has been established."sally
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Originally posted by majorsal View Postfor me, if it's rebooted in the emmerich/devlin way, it won't be *stargate*.
stargate's not just the round thing that spins and takes ppl to other planets, but the characters and history and mythology that the series took hold of and brought to glorious life.
a reboot is not *needed* to bring stargate back. if stargate were off for 10 years, i could possibly see this subject having some merit. but jeez, the actors aren't *that* old , and that's what would make any comeback the hardest to work around.
it needs a comeback, not a reboot.
as someone on 'blastr' said on this subject: "I don't think a "Re-Boot" is needed just some fresh ideas while staying within what has been established."
"Five Rounds Rapid"
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Originally posted by Flyboy View PostI honestly disagree. I think the entire Gateverse has become too heavy and strayed too far from it's routes to be viable anymore. The beauty of SGU, for me, was that it almost completely disconnected itself from that which had been built up, making it entirely accessible to new viewers.
not so much that they took stargate in a new direction, but that they did it poorly and left too many *fans* behind. whether they brought in new viewers/to-become-fans or not, it's the 'fans' that kept the stargate franchise kicking.
~i'm including viewers as fans, b/c if you're viewing a show week after week, i believe you can be labeled a fan.sally
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Originally posted by majorsal View Postthis is just an opinion, but i feel that's part of why it failed.
not so much that they took stargate in a new direction, but that they did it poorly and left too many *fans* behind. whether they brought in new viewers/to-become-fans or not, it's the 'fans' that kept the stargate franchise kicking.
~i'm including viewers as fans, b/c if you're viewing a show week after week, i believe you can be labeled a fan.
(Understood and noted ref - opinion, the same can be said for everything I write)
I don't personally I think that's why it failed - I just think that modern audiences have the attention span of a gnat and cannot appreciate well constructed story telling, requiring shiney things, explosions, or monster-of-the-week episodes.... I think SGU had a lot to connect to the existing universe but thematically went back to the source of Stargate - a bunch of REAL world modern day humans thrust into the unknown without any special toys.
Look at it this way;
Compare the first series of Star Trek TOS to the last series of Voyager (or Enterprise, if you will). And despite some minor changes that you have to be a fan to recognise, the identity is the same - futuristic, space travel, big ass ships, awesome tech.
Same can be said for BSG, The X-Files, Doctor Who, Buffy, etc etc...
Not Stargate though.
Stargate started off as a fairly believable US military operation, hopelessly outmatched, relying on guerilla tactics, and modern day tech to fight off threats that were astounding and discover magnificent wonders (I'll never forget the first time I saw the ascended being at Keb, travel towards the Stargate - that sense of awe as the airman laid down their rifles as it passed over head). Compare that to SGA S5's time period, and that's gone.
The sense if wonder is no more, Earth is looking like the biggest baddest MOFO in the galaxy, we have awesome futuristic ships etc etc. SGU had to relocate to the other side of the known universe to offset that issue, and Continuum needed a timeline reset to offset it.
Fine, you may argue it's a realistic progression of affairs, but that's hardly the issue. The concept of WHAT Stargate is (to me) has been lost, and unfortunately the most recent attempt to recapture it has failed.
I totally understand that to you SG is more than a spinney thing, and so it is to me. Except for me it's not the characters and plot development, it's the identity that began in "Star Gate" and was so well adapted in the first 6-7 years of SG-1 before gradually evolving beyond recognition until all that WAS left (for me) in late SG1/SGA was 'a spinney thing'. And that's why SGU holds such a place in my heart, because I recognise the cast of SGU, in people I work with and know. And the entire scenario is believable to me and goes back to the purest idea of us vs the unknown.
"Five Rounds Rapid"
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And to me (and I acknowledge again that we're all going to have different perspectives on this), the movie is no more than your generic run-of-the-mill military-fights-evil-aliens action movie. The only thing differentiating it is the use of the stargate as a plot device. It was the TV series that added in the wonder and adventure and learning and meeting new cultures. I mean, just for one thing, the whole concept that the gate could go other places was invented for the TV series. Not a earth-shattering development of course, but the fact remains that the gate goes one place and one place only in the movie, and it's not likely that would change in any sequels (especially since as much as the movie writers are rumored to hate the TV series, I doubt they'd do anything that might leave them open to accusations of having borrowed from it). So...it comes down to which Stargate do you want? The Stargate that's all about the military fighting off the evil alien threat, or the Stargate that's about adventure and exploration and wonder (and humor) as well as fighting the evil alien threat?
I do agree that Earth getting so powerful and all the spaceships and stuff in the later years took away a lot of what was so great about the early SG-1 years. And I wouldn't be opposed to a reboot based on the early SG-1 years, getting back to those basics. But I don't have any interest in a reboot that only acknowledges the movie. That humorless grim-dark military vs aliens theme is just not my thing. *shrugs* Each to their own.- Life after Stargate -Agent Carter * Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. * The Blacklist * Castle * Elementary * GrimmHawaii Five-0 * The Mentalist * NCIS * NCIS:LA * Once Upon a Time * Rizzoli & Islessigpic
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Originally posted by Killdeer View PostAnd to me (and I acknowledge again that we're all going to have different perspectives on this), the movie is no more than your generic run-of-the-mill military-fights-evil-aliens action movie. The only thing differentiating it is the use of the stargate as a plot device. It was the TV series that added in the wonder and adventure and learning and meeting new cultures. I mean, just for one thing, the whole concept that the gate could go other places was invented for the TV series. Not a earth-shattering development of course, but the fact remains that the gate goes one place and one place only in the movie, and it's not likely that would change in any sequels (especially since as much as the movie writers are rumored to hate the TV series, I doubt they'd do anything that might leave them open to accusations of having borrowed from it). So...it comes down to which Stargate do you want? The Stargate that's all about the military fighting off the evil alien threat, or the Stargate that's about adventure and exploration and wonder (and humor) as well as fighting the evil alien threat?
See, that's interesting. Because for me, that sense of wonder came for me the moment that the original Abydos team stepped through the gate. I still, to this day, find the initial activation scene of the gate and Daniel's childlike fascination with it to be absolutely awe inspiring. When they stepped out of the pyramid onto an alien world, that moment was phenomenal. The entire idea captivated me, the premise if a link to our ancient cultures, that we had a secret history that we didn't even know about, and yes - the air force's role in the whole thing. That was the start of it all for me. I totally agree this was built on beautifully in SG1. That moment when Carter and Jackson work out the gate can go to other places, The Fifth Race episode, up to (and essentially ending - for me) with Lost City/Rising.
But exploring multiple worlds is just ONE avenue that the story telling route could go down, Abydos is a big planet, and that side of the universe is totally unexplored, a wealth of VERY different plot lines are open without having a gate network, and frankly that excites me just as much.
Originally posted by Killdeer View PostI do agree that Earth getting so powerful and all the spaceships and stuff in the later years took away a lot of what was so great about the early SG-1 years. And I wouldn't be opposed to a reboot based on the early SG-1 years, getting back to those basics. But I don't have any interest in a reboot that only acknowledges the movie. That humorless grim-dark military vs aliens theme is just not my thing. *shrugs* Each to their own.
I also would love to see a more serious show... for me the humour got too much. But then a lot went downhill for me. Following 'The Siege' (one of the best stargate episodes of all time), nothing was ever quite the same.
"Five Rounds Rapid"
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Well, obviously the movie means a lot to you. I respect that. It does not have the same impact on me, but we're all different.Last edited by Killdeer; 28 September 2013, 07:16 AM.- Life after Stargate -Agent Carter * Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. * The Blacklist * Castle * Elementary * GrimmHawaii Five-0 * The Mentalist * NCIS * NCIS:LA * Once Upon a Time * Rizzoli & Islessigpic
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Originally posted by Flyboy View Post[...] And that's why SGU holds such a place in my heart, because I recognise the cast of SGU, in people I work with and know. And the entire scenario is believable to me and goes back to the purest idea of us vs the unknown.
i wish the ptb would have taken that zeal in story telling for sg1 and atlantis instead.
not long ago joe mentioned about how it would be nice for mgm to let the tv franchise finish off before the rebooting came along. or better yet, let the reboot franchise *and* the tv franchise run together.
all i know is one of us is going to be happy.sally
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Originally posted by Flyboy View PostI honestly disagree. I think the entire Gateverse has become too heavy and strayed too far from it's routes to be viable anymore. The beauty of SGU, for me, was that it almost completely disconnected itself from that which had been built up, making it entirely accessible to new viewers.
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Originally posted by Flyboy View PostI honestly disagree. I think the entire Gateverse has become too heavy and strayed too far from it's routes to be viable anymore. The beauty of SGU, for me, was that it almost completely disconnected itself from that which had been built up, making it entirely accessible to new viewers.
Even SGA did not phone home that quick.sigpicALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.A lie is just a truth that hasn't gone through conversion therapy yetThe truth isn't the truth
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Originally posted by Flyboy View Post(Understood and noted ref - opinion, the same can be said for everything I write)
I don't personally I think that's why it failed - I just think that modern audiences have the attention span of a gnat and cannot appreciate well constructed story telling, requiring shiney things, explosions, or monster-of-the-week episodes....
I think SGU had a lot to connect to the existing universe but thematically went back to the source of Stargate - a bunch of REAL world modern day humans thrust into the unknown without any special toys.
Look at it this way;
Compare the first series of Star Trek TOS to the last series of Voyager (or Enterprise, if you will). And despite some minor changes that you have to be a fan to recognise, the identity is the same - futuristic, space travel, big ass ships, awesome tech.
Big ass ships and awesome tech was no more than the setting. If that is all Trek was to you, you might as well watch transformers. (and NOT the original movie cartoon which DID have some heart)
Not Stargate though.
Stargate started off as a fairly believable US military operation, hopelessly outmatched, relying on guerilla tactics, and modern day tech to fight off threats that were astounding and discover magnificent wonders (I'll never forget the first time I saw the ascended being at Keb, travel towards the Stargate - that sense of awe as the airman laid down their rifles as it passed over head). Compare that to SGA S5's time period, and that's gone.
The sense if wonder is no more, Earth is looking like the biggest baddest MOFO in the galaxy, we have awesome futuristic ships etc etc.
Our ships are good, hardly awesome, and we have only 3-5 in service at any one time. You can point to a ZPM powered Oddesy, sure, but I can point to a ZPM powered hive ship, or an Ori ship that utterly boned our ships.
SGU had to relocate to the other side of the known universe to offset that issue,
and Continuum needed a timeline reset to offset it.
Fine, you may argue it's a realistic progression of affairs, but that's hardly the issue.
You dislike "advanced tech Stargate", and that's fine, I don't agree that SG should be stuck in "the now" when it happens over YEARS.
The concept of WHAT Stargate is (to me) has been lost, and unfortunately the most recent attempt to recapture it has failed.
I totally understand that to you SG is more than a spinney thing, and so it is to me. Except for me it's not the characters and plot development, it's the identity that began in "Star Gate" and was so well adapted in the first 6-7 years of SG-1 before gradually evolving beyond recognition until all that WAS left (for me) in late SG1/SGA was 'a spinney thing'.
Us vs the universe?
And that's why SGU holds such a place in my heart, because I recognise the cast of SGU, in people I work with and know.
Make up your mind dude.
And the entire scenario is believable to me and goes back to the purest idea of us vs the unknown.
Blues and Browns, unknown
What Destiny may need, unknown
What Destiny is capable of, unknown.
What the crew is capable of, unknown.sigpicALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.A lie is just a truth that hasn't gone through conversion therapy yetThe truth isn't the truth
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Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View PostIf you are talking "joe public", then I would agree, but scifi fans do tend to have a pretty good attention span.
Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View PostBut they DO have special toys, they have those thrice accursed stones. without them, I would agree it got back to "basic gate", but it did NOT.
Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View PostNo, what this misses is the very heart of Trek. Trek told stories for a reason, to hold up a mirror to ourselves and our own time. The "cover is the same, yes, but the heart is long gone.
Big ass ships and awesome tech was no more than the setting. If that is all Trek was to you, you might as well watch transformers. (and NOT the original movie cartoon which DID have some heart)
Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View PostAwe gets lost with understanding, ask any atheist when they look at the rituals of any religion.
Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View PostWhy do you seemingly insist that people should not learn?
Our ships are good, hardly awesome, and we have only 3-5 in service at any one time. You can point to a ZPM powered Oddesy, sure, but I can point to a ZPM powered hive ship, or an Ori ship that utterly boned our ships.
Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View PostTook their magic beans with em though...............
Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View PostContinuum WAS a timeline reset, it was INTENTIONAL.
Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View PostYes, it very much IS the issue.
You dislike "advanced tech Stargate", and that's fine, I don't agree that SG should be stuck in "the now" when it happens over YEARS.
Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View PostFair call.
Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View PostWhat "identity"??
Us vs the universe?
Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View PostHang on, you just said it was NOT the characters and now it holds a place in your heart BECAUSE of the characters????
Make up your mind dude.
Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View PostUs V unknown is a pure idea, but considering how much air time was given to US Vs the LA, which we know, how unknown was it really?
Blues and Browns, unknown
What Destiny may need, unknown
What Destiny is capable of, unknown.
What the crew is capable of, unknown.
"Five Rounds Rapid"
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