Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #16
    I know we're all going to have different perspectives on this, but I don't agree that any Stargate is better than no Stargate. It's not just about the characters and the actors. It's more that just about everything I associate with Stargate came from the TV series, not the movie. Even the basic idea of a network of gates. And I don't think the Star Trek analogy fits here - it's a completely different situation. The Star Trek reboot has not attempted to erase the previous canon. It's still there, just in a different timeline. From my perspective, a better analogy would be Buffy the Vampire Slayer. How would people react if they decided to go back and do a sequel to the original movie and go in a completely different direction? No Willow, no Xander, no Angel, no Giles....no Sunnydale or Hellmouth. I don't think it would go over well. I guess to me, the original movie is no more part of the Stargate franchise than the original Buffy movie is part of the Buffy/Angel 'verse. And no, I'm not fond enough of the spinning ring to say that I'd rather erase 15 seasons of universe building than have no Stargate at all. Sorry. Sure, maybe Stargate will be rebooted eventually, whether as a Next Gen type series or a complete remake (like Hawaii Five-0 or BSG). But I think any successful reboot will have to acknowledge the TV show canon in some way, as Star Trek did, and not attempt to completely erase it.
    Last edited by Killdeer; 25 September 2013, 11:00 PM.
    - Life after Stargate -
    Agent Carter * Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. * The Blacklist * Castle * Elementary * Grimm
    Hawaii Five-0 * The Mentalist * NCIS * NCIS:LA * Once Upon a Time * Rizzoli & Isles
    sigpic

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by Killdeer View Post
      I know we're all going to have different perspectives on this, but I don't agree that any Stargate is better than no Stargate. It's not just about the characters and the actors. It's more that just about everything I associate with Stargate came from the TV series, not the movie. Even the basic idea of a network of gates. And I don't think the Star Trek analogy fits here - it's a completely different situation. The Star Trek reboot has not attempted to erase the previous canon. It's still there, just in a different timeline. From my perspective, a better analogy would be Buffy the Vampire Slayer. How would people react if they decided to go back and do a sequel to the original movie and go in a completely different direction? No Willow, no Xander, no Angel, no Giles....no Sunnydale or Hellmouth. I don't think it would go over well. I guess to me, the original movie is no more part of the Stargate franchise than the original Buffy movie is part of the Buffy/Angel 'verse. And no, I'm not fond enough of the spinning ring to say that I'd rather erase 15 seasons of universe building than have no Stargate at all. Sorry. Sure, maybe Stargate will be rebooted eventually, whether as a Next Gen type series or a complete remake (like Hawaii Five-0 or BSG). But I think any successful reboot will have to acknowledge the TV show canon in some way, as Star Trek did, and not attempt to completely erase it.
      But it's NOT erased. One does not supercede the other. It's just different. SG-1 will STILL be on your shelf.


      "Five Rounds Rapid"

      sigpic

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by Flyboy View Post
        But it's NOT erased. One does not supercede the other. It's just different. SG-1 will STILL be on your shelf.
        I keep coming back to the Smallville analogy. No one had a problem with Superman Returns coming out alongside the televised run--neither continuity addressing the other.

        I could sooner see the argument with Buffy simply because Stargate is a fantastic concept, Superman is a fantastic concept, and Buffy is a stupid concept made great by a special creative team. Buffy is Joss Whedon, he's said as much recently, that all those years he thought he was writing Xander as himself, but towards the end he realized Buffy was him.

        Stargate on the other hand is just a strong concept. I do think they'd do well to borrow from RDA's style of not playing it completely straight--for one, that seems more realistic, as humans tend to crack a joke here and there.
        Last edited by Ripple in Space; 27 September 2013, 08:53 PM.
        sigpic
        "Most of our John Sheppard impressions sound more like a demented Jimmy Stewart than Joe Flanigan."
        ~David Hewlett

        Comment


          #19
          for me, if it's rebooted in the emmerich/devlin way, it won't be *stargate*.

          stargate's not just the round thing that spins and takes ppl to other planets, but the characters and history and mythology that the series took hold of and brought to glorious life.

          a reboot is not *needed* to bring stargate back. if stargate were off for 10 years, i could possibly see this subject having some merit. but jeez, the actors aren't *that* old , and that's what would make any comeback the hardest to work around.

          it needs a comeback, not a reboot.

          as someone on 'blastr' said on this subject: "I don't think a "Re-Boot" is needed just some fresh ideas while staying within what has been established."
          sally

          sigpic

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by majorsal View Post
            for me, if it's rebooted in the emmerich/devlin way, it won't be *stargate*.

            stargate's not just the round thing that spins and takes ppl to other planets, but the characters and history and mythology that the series took hold of and brought to glorious life.

            a reboot is not *needed* to bring stargate back. if stargate were off for 10 years, i could possibly see this subject having some merit. but jeez, the actors aren't *that* old , and that's what would make any comeback the hardest to work around.

            it needs a comeback, not a reboot.

            as someone on 'blastr' said on this subject: "I don't think a "Re-Boot" is needed just some fresh ideas while staying within what has been established."
            I honestly disagree. I think the entire Gateverse has become too heavy and strayed too far from it's routes to be viable anymore. The beauty of SGU, for me, was that it almost completely disconnected itself from that which had been built up, making it entirely accessible to new viewers.


            "Five Rounds Rapid"

            sigpic

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by Flyboy View Post
              I honestly disagree. I think the entire Gateverse has become too heavy and strayed too far from it's routes to be viable anymore. The beauty of SGU, for me, was that it almost completely disconnected itself from that which had been built up, making it entirely accessible to new viewers.
              this is just an opinion, but i feel that's part of why it failed.

              not so much that they took stargate in a new direction, but that they did it poorly and left too many *fans* behind. whether they brought in new viewers/to-become-fans or not, it's the 'fans' that kept the stargate franchise kicking.

              ~i'm including viewers as fans, b/c if you're viewing a show week after week, i believe you can be labeled a fan.
              sally

              sigpic

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by majorsal View Post
                this is just an opinion, but i feel that's part of why it failed.

                not so much that they took stargate in a new direction, but that they did it poorly and left too many *fans* behind. whether they brought in new viewers/to-become-fans or not, it's the 'fans' that kept the stargate franchise kicking.

                ~i'm including viewers as fans, b/c if you're viewing a show week after week, i believe you can be labeled a fan.

                (Understood and noted ref - opinion, the same can be said for everything I write)

                I don't personally I think that's why it failed - I just think that modern audiences have the attention span of a gnat and cannot appreciate well constructed story telling, requiring shiney things, explosions, or monster-of-the-week episodes.... I think SGU had a lot to connect to the existing universe but thematically went back to the source of Stargate - a bunch of REAL world modern day humans thrust into the unknown without any special toys.

                Look at it this way;

                Compare the first series of Star Trek TOS to the last series of Voyager (or Enterprise, if you will). And despite some minor changes that you have to be a fan to recognise, the identity is the same - futuristic, space travel, big ass ships, awesome tech.

                Same can be said for BSG, The X-Files, Doctor Who, Buffy, etc etc...

                Not Stargate though.

                Stargate started off as a fairly believable US military operation, hopelessly outmatched, relying on guerilla tactics, and modern day tech to fight off threats that were astounding and discover magnificent wonders (I'll never forget the first time I saw the ascended being at Keb, travel towards the Stargate - that sense of awe as the airman laid down their rifles as it passed over head). Compare that to SGA S5's time period, and that's gone.

                The sense if wonder is no more, Earth is looking like the biggest baddest MOFO in the galaxy, we have awesome futuristic ships etc etc. SGU had to relocate to the other side of the known universe to offset that issue, and Continuum needed a timeline reset to offset it.

                Fine, you may argue it's a realistic progression of affairs, but that's hardly the issue. The concept of WHAT Stargate is (to me) has been lost, and unfortunately the most recent attempt to recapture it has failed.

                I totally understand that to you SG is more than a spinney thing, and so it is to me. Except for me it's not the characters and plot development, it's the identity that began in "Star Gate" and was so well adapted in the first 6-7 years of SG-1 before gradually evolving beyond recognition until all that WAS left (for me) in late SG1/SGA was 'a spinney thing'. And that's why SGU holds such a place in my heart, because I recognise the cast of SGU, in people I work with and know. And the entire scenario is believable to me and goes back to the purest idea of us vs the unknown.


                "Five Rounds Rapid"

                sigpic

                Comment


                  #23
                  And to me (and I acknowledge again that we're all going to have different perspectives on this), the movie is no more than your generic run-of-the-mill military-fights-evil-aliens action movie. The only thing differentiating it is the use of the stargate as a plot device. It was the TV series that added in the wonder and adventure and learning and meeting new cultures. I mean, just for one thing, the whole concept that the gate could go other places was invented for the TV series. Not a earth-shattering development of course, but the fact remains that the gate goes one place and one place only in the movie, and it's not likely that would change in any sequels (especially since as much as the movie writers are rumored to hate the TV series, I doubt they'd do anything that might leave them open to accusations of having borrowed from it). So...it comes down to which Stargate do you want? The Stargate that's all about the military fighting off the evil alien threat, or the Stargate that's about adventure and exploration and wonder (and humor) as well as fighting the evil alien threat?

                  I do agree that Earth getting so powerful and all the spaceships and stuff in the later years took away a lot of what was so great about the early SG-1 years. And I wouldn't be opposed to a reboot based on the early SG-1 years, getting back to those basics. But I don't have any interest in a reboot that only acknowledges the movie. That humorless grim-dark military vs aliens theme is just not my thing. *shrugs* Each to their own.
                  - Life after Stargate -
                  Agent Carter * Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. * The Blacklist * Castle * Elementary * Grimm
                  Hawaii Five-0 * The Mentalist * NCIS * NCIS:LA * Once Upon a Time * Rizzoli & Isles
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Killdeer View Post
                    And to me (and I acknowledge again that we're all going to have different perspectives on this), the movie is no more than your generic run-of-the-mill military-fights-evil-aliens action movie. The only thing differentiating it is the use of the stargate as a plot device. It was the TV series that added in the wonder and adventure and learning and meeting new cultures. I mean, just for one thing, the whole concept that the gate could go other places was invented for the TV series. Not a earth-shattering development of course, but the fact remains that the gate goes one place and one place only in the movie, and it's not likely that would change in any sequels (especially since as much as the movie writers are rumored to hate the TV series, I doubt they'd do anything that might leave them open to accusations of having borrowed from it). So...it comes down to which Stargate do you want? The Stargate that's all about the military fighting off the evil alien threat, or the Stargate that's about adventure and exploration and wonder (and humor) as well as fighting the evil alien threat?

                    See, that's interesting. Because for me, that sense of wonder came for me the moment that the original Abydos team stepped through the gate. I still, to this day, find the initial activation scene of the gate and Daniel's childlike fascination with it to be absolutely awe inspiring. When they stepped out of the pyramid onto an alien world, that moment was phenomenal. The entire idea captivated me, the premise if a link to our ancient cultures, that we had a secret history that we didn't even know about, and yes - the air force's role in the whole thing. That was the start of it all for me. I totally agree this was built on beautifully in SG1. That moment when Carter and Jackson work out the gate can go to other places, The Fifth Race episode, up to (and essentially ending - for me) with Lost City/Rising.

                    But exploring multiple worlds is just ONE avenue that the story telling route could go down, Abydos is a big planet, and that side of the universe is totally unexplored, a wealth of VERY different plot lines are open without having a gate network, and frankly that excites me just as much.

                    Originally posted by Killdeer View Post
                    I do agree that Earth getting so powerful and all the spaceships and stuff in the later years took away a lot of what was so great about the early SG-1 years. And I wouldn't be opposed to a reboot based on the early SG-1 years, getting back to those basics. But I don't have any interest in a reboot that only acknowledges the movie. That humorless grim-dark military vs aliens theme is just not my thing. *shrugs* Each to their own.
                    But this is why I would only want a Stargate reboot and not an SG-1 reboot..... SG-1 was and is brilliant, and a reboot of Sg-1 WOULD be a replacement, where as a new show or movie saga based on the movie would never replace SG-1. It would be different.

                    I also would love to see a more serious show... for me the humour got too much. But then a lot went downhill for me. Following 'The Siege' (one of the best stargate episodes of all time), nothing was ever quite the same.


                    "Five Rounds Rapid"

                    sigpic

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Well, obviously the movie means a lot to you. I respect that. It does not have the same impact on me, but we're all different.
                      Last edited by Killdeer; 28 September 2013, 07:16 AM.
                      - Life after Stargate -
                      Agent Carter * Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. * The Blacklist * Castle * Elementary * Grimm
                      Hawaii Five-0 * The Mentalist * NCIS * NCIS:LA * Once Upon a Time * Rizzoli & Isles
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Flyboy View Post
                        [...] And that's why SGU holds such a place in my heart, because I recognise the cast of SGU, in people I work with and know. And the entire scenario is believable to me and goes back to the purest idea of us vs the unknown.
                        i've read more than once that sgu got much better after those first 10 eps, especially the second season. but i'd already given up and didn't even try to watch after, b/c i just didn't like the characters.

                        i wish the ptb would have taken that zeal in story telling for sg1 and atlantis instead.

                        not long ago joe mentioned about how it would be nice for mgm to let the tv franchise finish off before the rebooting came along. or better yet, let the reboot franchise *and* the tv franchise run together.

                        all i know is one of us is going to be happy.
                        sally

                        sigpic

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by Flyboy View Post
                          I honestly disagree. I think the entire Gateverse has become too heavy and strayed too far from it's routes to be viable anymore. The beauty of SGU, for me, was that it almost completely disconnected itself from that which had been built up, making it entirely accessible to new viewers.
                          Yeah, almost completely but it still acknowledged what had gone before. It took it in a completely different direction, one a lot of fans weren't ready for(though you and I both were) but it still acknowledged its history, maybe there was only the loosest of connections to that history but it was still there. If it had tried to act as though SG1 and Atlantis hadn't happened...we'd have had a problem.
                          I SURF FOR THE FREEDOM!

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by Flyboy View Post
                            I honestly disagree. I think the entire Gateverse has become too heavy and strayed too far from it's routes to be viable anymore. The beauty of SGU, for me, was that it almost completely disconnected itself from that which had been built up, making it entirely accessible to new viewers.
                            S1 ep 2 contact with earth = fail
                            Even SGA did not phone home that quick.
                            sigpic
                            ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
                            A lie is just a truth that hasn't gone through conversion therapy yet
                            The truth isn't the truth

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Flyboy View Post
                              (Understood and noted ref - opinion, the same can be said for everything I write)

                              I don't personally I think that's why it failed - I just think that modern audiences have the attention span of a gnat and cannot appreciate well constructed story telling, requiring shiney things, explosions, or monster-of-the-week episodes....
                              If you are talking "joe public", then I would agree, but scifi fans do tend to have a pretty good attention span.

                              I think SGU had a lot to connect to the existing universe but thematically went back to the source of Stargate - a bunch of REAL world modern day humans thrust into the unknown without any special toys.
                              But they DO have special toys, they have those thrice accursed stones. without them, I would agree it got back to "basic gate", but it did NOT.

                              Look at it this way;

                              Compare the first series of Star Trek TOS to the last series of Voyager (or Enterprise, if you will). And despite some minor changes that you have to be a fan to recognise, the identity is the same - futuristic, space travel, big ass ships, awesome tech.
                              No, what this misses is the very heart of Trek. Trek told stories for a reason, to hold up a mirror to ourselves and our own time. The "cover is the same, yes, but the heart is long gone.
                              Big ass ships and awesome tech was no more than the setting. If that is all Trek was to you, you might as well watch transformers. (and NOT the original movie cartoon which DID have some heart)


                              Not Stargate though.

                              Stargate started off as a fairly believable US military operation, hopelessly outmatched, relying on guerilla tactics, and modern day tech to fight off threats that were astounding and discover magnificent wonders (I'll never forget the first time I saw the ascended being at Keb, travel towards the Stargate - that sense of awe as the airman laid down their rifles as it passed over head). Compare that to SGA S5's time period, and that's gone.
                              Awe gets lost with understanding, ask any atheist when they look at the rituals of any religion.

                              The sense if wonder is no more, Earth is looking like the biggest baddest MOFO in the galaxy, we have awesome futuristic ships etc etc.
                              Why do you seemingly insist that people should not learn?
                              Our ships are good, hardly awesome, and we have only 3-5 in service at any one time. You can point to a ZPM powered Oddesy, sure, but I can point to a ZPM powered hive ship, or an Ori ship that utterly boned our ships.

                              SGU had to relocate to the other side of the known universe to offset that issue,
                              Took their magic beans with em though...............
                              and Continuum needed a timeline reset to offset it.
                              Continuum WAS a timeline reset, it was INTENTIONAL.

                              Fine, you may argue it's a realistic progression of affairs, but that's hardly the issue.
                              Yes, it very much IS the issue.
                              You dislike "advanced tech Stargate", and that's fine, I don't agree that SG should be stuck in "the now" when it happens over YEARS.
                              The concept of WHAT Stargate is (to me) has been lost, and unfortunately the most recent attempt to recapture it has failed.
                              Fair call.

                              I totally understand that to you SG is more than a spinney thing, and so it is to me. Except for me it's not the characters and plot development, it's the identity that began in "Star Gate" and was so well adapted in the first 6-7 years of SG-1 before gradually evolving beyond recognition until all that WAS left (for me) in late SG1/SGA was 'a spinney thing'.
                              What "identity"??
                              Us vs the universe?

                              And that's why SGU holds such a place in my heart, because I recognise the cast of SGU, in people I work with and know.
                              Hang on, you just said it was NOT the characters and now it holds a place in your heart BECAUSE of the characters????
                              Make up your mind dude.

                              And the entire scenario is believable to me and goes back to the purest idea of us vs the unknown.
                              Us V unknown is a pure idea, but considering how much air time was given to US Vs the LA, which we know, how unknown was it really?
                              Blues and Browns, unknown
                              What Destiny may need, unknown
                              What Destiny is capable of, unknown.
                              What the crew is capable of, unknown.
                              sigpic
                              ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
                              A lie is just a truth that hasn't gone through conversion therapy yet
                              The truth isn't the truth

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
                                If you are talking "joe public", then I would agree, but scifi fans do tend to have a pretty good attention span.
                                Yeah, and we're the minority.

                                Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
                                But they DO have special toys, they have those thrice accursed stones. without them, I would agree it got back to "basic gate", but it did NOT.
                                The stones represented a very small plot device which enabled the series to retain a link to contemporary Earth, in this instance, the presence of advanced tech enabled the show to RETAIN it's contemporary feel, rather than making it feel more futuristic - like SGA.

                                Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
                                No, what this misses is the very heart of Trek. Trek told stories for a reason, to hold up a mirror to ourselves and our own time. The "cover is the same, yes, but the heart is long gone.
                                Big ass ships and awesome tech was no more than the setting. If that is all Trek was to you, you might as well watch transformers. (and NOT the original movie cartoon which DID have some heart)
                                Why get so personal? Seriously? I love Trek for a variety of reasons, and cannot stand Transformers. But I would argue that Trek remains recognisable from TOS through to Ent at it's very core and stylistically and thematically.

                                Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
                                Awe gets lost with understanding, ask any atheist when they look at the rituals of any religion.
                                Your point? Seriously? That's a completely different issue. We're not discussing reality, we're discussing a television show.

                                Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
                                Why do you seemingly insist that people should not learn?
                                Our ships are good, hardly awesome, and we have only 3-5 in service at any one time. You can point to a ZPM powered Oddesy, sure, but I can point to a ZPM powered hive ship, or an Ori ship that utterly boned our ships.
                                No - I do not insist, although, realistically - the development of those battleships in even ten years is not realistic, do you have any idea how long even an F-35 or a Typhoon takes to develop? And that's one single aircraft. That point aside, however, my argument is not that it doesn't make sense in the confines of a single show. Realism aside, it made sense from a narrative perspective to develop the advanced tech within SG-1. But it has still pushed the franchise beyond that which it began, which from a story telling perspective is great. But it remains one of the only franchises to do this, and it is not sustainable. It is a completely different toned show, and future gate offerings that don't return to the show's routes (like SGU did) will imo poor.

                                Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
                                Took their magic beans with em though...............
                                ...

                                Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
                                Continuum WAS a timeline reset, it was INTENTIONAL.
                                That was my point. The reset was needed so that a traditional Stargate story could be delivered. Earth, on it's own, vs an alien threat - an underdog.

                                Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
                                Yes, it very much IS the issue.
                                You dislike "advanced tech Stargate", and that's fine, I don't agree that SG should be stuck in "the now" when it happens over YEARS.
                                I'm not arguing that the SG-1-Verse series should be stuck in the now. I'm arguing that future Stargate can benefit by resetting and going back to the 'now'.

                                Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
                                Fair call.
                                Thank you.

                                Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
                                What "identity"??
                                Us vs the universe?
                                Real world, present day us, versus a threat that is unimaginable. Doing the best that we can through ingenuity, rather that through the use of big honking space guns. It's not very imaginative to use a deus ex machina weapon to save the day. Add into that the mythology from the early days, and that's the identity of the show.

                                Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
                                Hang on, you just said it was NOT the characters and now it holds a place in your heart BECAUSE of the characters????
                                Make up your mind dude.
                                Confrontational much? It holds a place because of the NATURE of the characters, they are very real - and a good deal less comic-bookish than those of SGA, reminding me far more of early SG1 and the movie.

                                Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
                                Us V unknown is a pure idea, but considering how much air time was given to US Vs the LA, which we know, how unknown was it really?
                                Blues and Browns, unknown
                                What Destiny may need, unknown
                                What Destiny is capable of, unknown.
                                What the crew is capable of, unknown.
                                Other side of the universe... planet builders, a message at the farest reaches of the universe... weird **** happening, genuinely alien planets... No, you're right...


                                "Five Rounds Rapid"

                                sigpic

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X