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  1. #21
    General majorsal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyboy View Post
    I honestly disagree. I think the entire Gateverse has become too heavy and strayed too far from it's routes to be viable anymore. The beauty of SGU, for me, was that it almost completely disconnected itself from that which had been built up, making it entirely accessible to new viewers.
    this is just an opinion, but i feel that's part of why it failed.

    not so much that they took stargate in a new direction, but that they did it poorly and left too many *fans* behind. whether they brought in new viewers/to-become-fans or not, it's the 'fans' that kept the stargate franchise kicking.

    ~i'm including viewers as fans, b/c if you're viewing a show week after week, i believe you can be labeled a fan.
    sally


  2. #22
    Colonel Flyboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    Quote Originally Posted by majorsal View Post
    this is just an opinion, but i feel that's part of why it failed.

    not so much that they took stargate in a new direction, but that they did it poorly and left too many *fans* behind. whether they brought in new viewers/to-become-fans or not, it's the 'fans' that kept the stargate franchise kicking.

    ~i'm including viewers as fans, b/c if you're viewing a show week after week, i believe you can be labeled a fan.

    (Understood and noted ref - opinion, the same can be said for everything I write)

    I don't personally I think that's why it failed - I just think that modern audiences have the attention span of a gnat and cannot appreciate well constructed story telling, requiring shiney things, explosions, or monster-of-the-week episodes.... I think SGU had a lot to connect to the existing universe but thematically went back to the source of Stargate - a bunch of REAL world modern day humans thrust into the unknown without any special toys.

    Look at it this way;

    Compare the first series of Star Trek TOS to the last series of Voyager (or Enterprise, if you will). And despite some minor changes that you have to be a fan to recognise, the identity is the same - futuristic, space travel, big ass ships, awesome tech.

    Same can be said for BSG, The X-Files, Doctor Who, Buffy, etc etc...

    Not Stargate though.

    Stargate started off as a fairly believable US military operation, hopelessly outmatched, relying on guerilla tactics, and modern day tech to fight off threats that were astounding and discover magnificent wonders (I'll never forget the first time I saw the ascended being at Keb, travel towards the Stargate - that sense of awe as the airman laid down their rifles as it passed over head). Compare that to SGA S5's time period, and that's gone.

    The sense if wonder is no more, Earth is looking like the biggest baddest MOFO in the galaxy, we have awesome futuristic ships etc etc. SGU had to relocate to the other side of the known universe to offset that issue, and Continuum needed a timeline reset to offset it.

    Fine, you may argue it's a realistic progression of affairs, but that's hardly the issue. The concept of WHAT Stargate is (to me) has been lost, and unfortunately the most recent attempt to recapture it has failed.

    I totally understand that to you SG is more than a spinney thing, and so it is to me. Except for me it's not the characters and plot development, it's the identity that began in "Star Gate" and was so well adapted in the first 6-7 years of SG-1 before gradually evolving beyond recognition until all that WAS left (for me) in late SG1/SGA was 'a spinney thing'. And that's why SGU holds such a place in my heart, because I recognise the cast of SGU, in people I work with and know. And the entire scenario is believable to me and goes back to the purest idea of us vs the unknown.


    "Five Rounds Rapid"




  3. #23
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    And to me (and I acknowledge again that we're all going to have different perspectives on this), the movie is no more than your generic run-of-the-mill military-fights-evil-aliens action movie. The only thing differentiating it is the use of the stargate as a plot device. It was the TV series that added in the wonder and adventure and learning and meeting new cultures. I mean, just for one thing, the whole concept that the gate could go other places was invented for the TV series. Not a earth-shattering development of course, but the fact remains that the gate goes one place and one place only in the movie, and it's not likely that would change in any sequels (especially since as much as the movie writers are rumored to hate the TV series, I doubt they'd do anything that might leave them open to accusations of having borrowed from it). So...it comes down to which Stargate do you want? The Stargate that's all about the military fighting off the evil alien threat, or the Stargate that's about adventure and exploration and wonder (and humor) as well as fighting the evil alien threat?

    I do agree that Earth getting so powerful and all the spaceships and stuff in the later years took away a lot of what was so great about the early SG-1 years. And I wouldn't be opposed to a reboot based on the early SG-1 years, getting back to those basics. But I don't have any interest in a reboot that only acknowledges the movie. That humorless grim-dark military vs aliens theme is just not my thing. *shrugs* Each to their own.
    - Life after Stargate -
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  4. #24
    Colonel Flyboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Killdeer View Post
    And to me (and I acknowledge again that we're all going to have different perspectives on this), the movie is no more than your generic run-of-the-mill military-fights-evil-aliens action movie. The only thing differentiating it is the use of the stargate as a plot device. It was the TV series that added in the wonder and adventure and learning and meeting new cultures. I mean, just for one thing, the whole concept that the gate could go other places was invented for the TV series. Not a earth-shattering development of course, but the fact remains that the gate goes one place and one place only in the movie, and it's not likely that would change in any sequels (especially since as much as the movie writers are rumored to hate the TV series, I doubt they'd do anything that might leave them open to accusations of having borrowed from it). So...it comes down to which Stargate do you want? The Stargate that's all about the military fighting off the evil alien threat, or the Stargate that's about adventure and exploration and wonder (and humor) as well as fighting the evil alien threat?

    See, that's interesting. Because for me, that sense of wonder came for me the moment that the original Abydos team stepped through the gate. I still, to this day, find the initial activation scene of the gate and Daniel's childlike fascination with it to be absolutely awe inspiring. When they stepped out of the pyramid onto an alien world, that moment was phenomenal. The entire idea captivated me, the premise if a link to our ancient cultures, that we had a secret history that we didn't even know about, and yes - the air force's role in the whole thing. That was the start of it all for me. I totally agree this was built on beautifully in SG1. That moment when Carter and Jackson work out the gate can go to other places, The Fifth Race episode, up to (and essentially ending - for me) with Lost City/Rising.

    But exploring multiple worlds is just ONE avenue that the story telling route could go down, Abydos is a big planet, and that side of the universe is totally unexplored, a wealth of VERY different plot lines are open without having a gate network, and frankly that excites me just as much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killdeer View Post
    I do agree that Earth getting so powerful and all the spaceships and stuff in the later years took away a lot of what was so great about the early SG-1 years. And I wouldn't be opposed to a reboot based on the early SG-1 years, getting back to those basics. But I don't have any interest in a reboot that only acknowledges the movie. That humorless grim-dark military vs aliens theme is just not my thing. *shrugs* Each to their own.
    But this is why I would only want a Stargate reboot and not an SG-1 reboot..... SG-1 was and is brilliant, and a reboot of Sg-1 WOULD be a replacement, where as a new show or movie saga based on the movie would never replace SG-1. It would be different.

    I also would love to see a more serious show... for me the humour got too much. But then a lot went downhill for me. Following 'The Siege' (one of the best stargate episodes of all time), nothing was ever quite the same.


    "Five Rounds Rapid"




  5. #25
    Colonel Killdeer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    Well, obviously the movie means a lot to you. I respect that. It does not have the same impact on me, but we're all different.
    Last edited by Killdeer; September 28th, 2013 at 08:16 AM.
    - Life after Stargate -
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  6. #26
    General majorsal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyboy View Post
    [...] And that's why SGU holds such a place in my heart, because I recognise the cast of SGU, in people I work with and know. And the entire scenario is believable to me and goes back to the purest idea of us vs the unknown.
    i've read more than once that sgu got much better after those first 10 eps, especially the second season. but i'd already given up and didn't even try to watch after, b/c i just didn't like the characters.

    i wish the ptb would have taken that zeal in story telling for sg1 and atlantis instead.

    not long ago joe mentioned about how it would be nice for mgm to let the tv franchise finish off before the rebooting came along. or better yet, let the reboot franchise *and* the tv franchise run together.

    all i know is one of us is going to be happy.
    sally


  7. #27
    Lieutenant Colonel Matt G's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyboy View Post
    I honestly disagree. I think the entire Gateverse has become too heavy and strayed too far from it's routes to be viable anymore. The beauty of SGU, for me, was that it almost completely disconnected itself from that which had been built up, making it entirely accessible to new viewers.
    Yeah, almost completely but it still acknowledged what had gone before. It took it in a completely different direction, one a lot of fans weren't ready for(though you and I both were) but it still acknowledged its history, maybe there was only the loosest of connections to that history but it was still there. If it had tried to act as though SG1 and Atlantis hadn't happened...we'd have had a problem.

  8. #28
    HawkGirl Gatefan1976's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyboy View Post
    I honestly disagree. I think the entire Gateverse has become too heavy and strayed too far from it's routes to be viable anymore. The beauty of SGU, for me, was that it almost completely disconnected itself from that which had been built up, making it entirely accessible to new viewers.
    S1 ep 2 contact with earth = fail
    Even SGA did not phone home that quick.
    ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
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  9. #29
    HawkGirl Gatefan1976's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyboy View Post
    (Understood and noted ref - opinion, the same can be said for everything I write)

    I don't personally I think that's why it failed - I just think that modern audiences have the attention span of a gnat and cannot appreciate well constructed story telling, requiring shiney things, explosions, or monster-of-the-week episodes....
    If you are talking "joe public", then I would agree, but scifi fans do tend to have a pretty good attention span.

    I think SGU had a lot to connect to the existing universe but thematically went back to the source of Stargate - a bunch of REAL world modern day humans thrust into the unknown without any special toys.
    But they DO have special toys, they have those thrice accursed stones. without them, I would agree it got back to "basic gate", but it did NOT.

    Look at it this way;

    Compare the first series of Star Trek TOS to the last series of Voyager (or Enterprise, if you will). And despite some minor changes that you have to be a fan to recognise, the identity is the same - futuristic, space travel, big ass ships, awesome tech.
    No, what this misses is the very heart of Trek. Trek told stories for a reason, to hold up a mirror to ourselves and our own time. The "cover is the same, yes, but the heart is long gone.
    Big ass ships and awesome tech was no more than the setting. If that is all Trek was to you, you might as well watch transformers. (and NOT the original movie cartoon which DID have some heart)


    Not Stargate though.

    Stargate started off as a fairly believable US military operation, hopelessly outmatched, relying on guerilla tactics, and modern day tech to fight off threats that were astounding and discover magnificent wonders (I'll never forget the first time I saw the ascended being at Keb, travel towards the Stargate - that sense of awe as the airman laid down their rifles as it passed over head). Compare that to SGA S5's time period, and that's gone.
    Awe gets lost with understanding, ask any atheist when they look at the rituals of any religion.

    The sense if wonder is no more, Earth is looking like the biggest baddest MOFO in the galaxy, we have awesome futuristic ships etc etc.
    Why do you seemingly insist that people should not learn?
    Our ships are good, hardly awesome, and we have only 3-5 in service at any one time. You can point to a ZPM powered Oddesy, sure, but I can point to a ZPM powered hive ship, or an Ori ship that utterly boned our ships.

    SGU had to relocate to the other side of the known universe to offset that issue,
    Took their magic beans with em though...............
    and Continuum needed a timeline reset to offset it.
    Continuum WAS a timeline reset, it was INTENTIONAL.

    Fine, you may argue it's a realistic progression of affairs, but that's hardly the issue.
    Yes, it very much IS the issue.
    You dislike "advanced tech Stargate", and that's fine, I don't agree that SG should be stuck in "the now" when it happens over YEARS.
    The concept of WHAT Stargate is (to me) has been lost, and unfortunately the most recent attempt to recapture it has failed.
    Fair call.

    I totally understand that to you SG is more than a spinney thing, and so it is to me. Except for me it's not the characters and plot development, it's the identity that began in "Star Gate" and was so well adapted in the first 6-7 years of SG-1 before gradually evolving beyond recognition until all that WAS left (for me) in late SG1/SGA was 'a spinney thing'.
    What "identity"??
    Us vs the universe?

    And that's why SGU holds such a place in my heart, because I recognise the cast of SGU, in people I work with and know.
    Hang on, you just said it was NOT the characters and now it holds a place in your heart BECAUSE of the characters????
    Make up your mind dude.

    And the entire scenario is believable to me and goes back to the purest idea of us vs the unknown.
    Us V unknown is a pure idea, but considering how much air time was given to US Vs the LA, which we know, how unknown was it really?
    Blues and Browns, unknown
    What Destiny may need, unknown
    What Destiny is capable of, unknown.
    What the crew is capable of, unknown.
    ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
    A lie is just a truth that hasn't gone through conversion therapy yet

  10. #30
    Colonel Flyboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    If you are talking "joe public", then I would agree, but scifi fans do tend to have a pretty good attention span.
    Yeah, and we're the minority.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    But they DO have special toys, they have those thrice accursed stones. without them, I would agree it got back to "basic gate", but it did NOT.
    The stones represented a very small plot device which enabled the series to retain a link to contemporary Earth, in this instance, the presence of advanced tech enabled the show to RETAIN it's contemporary feel, rather than making it feel more futuristic - like SGA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    No, what this misses is the very heart of Trek. Trek told stories for a reason, to hold up a mirror to ourselves and our own time. The "cover is the same, yes, but the heart is long gone.
    Big ass ships and awesome tech was no more than the setting. If that is all Trek was to you, you might as well watch transformers. (and NOT the original movie cartoon which DID have some heart)
    Why get so personal? Seriously? I love Trek for a variety of reasons, and cannot stand Transformers. But I would argue that Trek remains recognisable from TOS through to Ent at it's very core and stylistically and thematically.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    Awe gets lost with understanding, ask any atheist when they look at the rituals of any religion.
    Your point? Seriously? That's a completely different issue. We're not discussing reality, we're discussing a television show.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    Why do you seemingly insist that people should not learn?
    Our ships are good, hardly awesome, and we have only 3-5 in service at any one time. You can point to a ZPM powered Oddesy, sure, but I can point to a ZPM powered hive ship, or an Ori ship that utterly boned our ships.
    No - I do not insist, although, realistically - the development of those battleships in even ten years is not realistic, do you have any idea how long even an F-35 or a Typhoon takes to develop? And that's one single aircraft. That point aside, however, my argument is not that it doesn't make sense in the confines of a single show. Realism aside, it made sense from a narrative perspective to develop the advanced tech within SG-1. But it has still pushed the franchise beyond that which it began, which from a story telling perspective is great. But it remains one of the only franchises to do this, and it is not sustainable. It is a completely different toned show, and future gate offerings that don't return to the show's routes (like SGU did) will imo poor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    Took their magic beans with em though...............
    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    Continuum WAS a timeline reset, it was INTENTIONAL.
    That was my point. The reset was needed so that a traditional Stargate story could be delivered. Earth, on it's own, vs an alien threat - an underdog.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    Yes, it very much IS the issue.
    You dislike "advanced tech Stargate", and that's fine, I don't agree that SG should be stuck in "the now" when it happens over YEARS.
    I'm not arguing that the SG-1-Verse series should be stuck in the now. I'm arguing that future Stargate can benefit by resetting and going back to the 'now'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    Fair call.
    Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    What "identity"??
    Us vs the universe?
    Real world, present day us, versus a threat that is unimaginable. Doing the best that we can through ingenuity, rather that through the use of big honking space guns. It's not very imaginative to use a deus ex machina weapon to save the day. Add into that the mythology from the early days, and that's the identity of the show.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    Hang on, you just said it was NOT the characters and now it holds a place in your heart BECAUSE of the characters????
    Make up your mind dude.
    Confrontational much? It holds a place because of the NATURE of the characters, they are very real - and a good deal less comic-bookish than those of SGA, reminding me far more of early SG1 and the movie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    Us V unknown is a pure idea, but considering how much air time was given to US Vs the LA, which we know, how unknown was it really?
    Blues and Browns, unknown
    What Destiny may need, unknown
    What Destiny is capable of, unknown.
    What the crew is capable of, unknown.
    Other side of the universe... planet builders, a message at the farest reaches of the universe... weird **** happening, genuinely alien planets... No, you're right...


    "Five Rounds Rapid"




  11. #31
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    I know this is a super old thread but I liked the friendly-ish banter back and forth. I liked Flyboys point about SGU going off in a new direction to start over with the concept if Us vs the universe and having a more serious tone. While I loved all the shows, SG1 started getting a little too goofy with the sword fighting a hologram and magical Merlin powers etc..., Atlantis was good but was also a little cartoonish in retrospect. Universe was serious and explored real deep and mysterious phenomena that couldn't be explained. That's what I liked about it at least.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    I can see that point of view...it's just that SGU was a little TOO nuanced for me... I do like the good guys/bad guys concept and I loved that our "friends" were always trying to do the right thing, not conniving.

    Also, SGU just had no sense of humor at all...I missed RDA's wry sense of humor and even Joe Flannigan was getting there with some of the comments.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilana View Post
    I can see that point of view...it's just that SGU was a little TOO nuanced for me... I do like the good guys/bad guys concept and I loved that our "friends" were always trying to do the right thing, not conniving.

    Also, SGU just had no sense of humor at all...I missed RDA's wry sense of humor and even Joe Flannigan was getting there with some of the comments.
    I'll agree with you there. Even in the face of danger you have to have some humor. RDA was absolutely epic as was Joe Flannigan. Those personalities were definitely missing in SGU. Hopefully, should a new show/movie come along they could combine the serious/humorous in a better way.

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    Hi,

    I had not really though about it before, but one of the reasons I like or dislike a show comes down to the friendly banter as in Star Trek, Star Wars, Dr Who, etc.

    Star Wars was like Han Solo's "It's not my fault".

    Star Trek's banter with Spock (It's a joke).

    And it's why I think I did not like Peter Capaldi as much as the other recent Doctors - the banter was missing. I always likes the Doctors getting thrown by River Song.

    Doug vV

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    If SGU were to have continued...or still would now (unlikely I know) I believe the character of Eli could have become that funny character that was missing. He was there, but the Destiny and its crew was always in such a state of dire desperation, the humor was never able to overcome that tone. If anyone has seen David Blue (Eli) recently he is very thin and fit now. Would be great to have home wake up the crew with a newly in shape Eli that can be the off-world mission witty scientist like McKay was. Maybe less doom which would allow for more time exploring planets that have clues leading to their mission of finding the origin of the signal in the background radiation. That I believe would make it more "Stargate" and less "Battlestar rip-off."

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyboy View Post
    I honestly disagree. I think the entire Gateverse has become too heavy and strayed too far from it's routes to be viable anymore. The beauty of SGU, for me, was that it almost completely disconnected itself from that which had been built up, making it entirely accessible to new viewers.
    Probably heavy, and I think that's what makes it interesting because it opens up so many possibilities for the whole story universe. But I hope that they can minimize loopholes if ever they venture into the established universe of the 3 series, or close some of the major loopholes.

    SGU was a new take at the gate, and it was probably this reason that some abhorred the series. The series took time to build itself, but it was nonetheless deserving of the respect we all have for SG1 and SGA. SGU had so much potential.

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiner833 View Post
    If SGU were to have continued...or still would now (unlikely I know) I believe the character of Eli could have become that funny character that was missing. He was there, but the Destiny and its crew was always in such a state of dire desperation, the humor was never able to overcome that tone. If anyone has seen David Blue (Eli) recently he is very thin and fit now. Would be great to have home wake up the crew with a newly in shape Eli that can be the off-world mission witty scientist like McKay was. Maybe less doom which would allow for more time exploring planets that have clues leading to their mission of finding the origin of the signal in the background radiation. That I believe would make it more "Stargate" and less "Battlestar rip-off."
    Having the show come back and spending more time off on planets, imo would be great.. AS that is a lot of people's core complaint, that unlike SGA/SG1 SgU barely had missions on planets.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    Honestly multiversum exists in the SG universe, so every reboot can be explained like a "new alternate timeline".

    I would be still happier to see a TV-movie series, like an anthology where they can randomly introduce new storylines or continue old ones. At least that is how I imagined Stargate : Origins. They could have called it like Stargate : Origins - Catherine Langford. Then season 2 would be focus on an other SG minor character etc.
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

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  19. #39
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    The SDCC panel interview eludes to this. When posing a question one panelist states (paraphrasing) "So tell us about Stargate:Origins. The first will be about Katherine Langford correct?" What I understand from that and some other comments was that more stories will be introduced as long as this thing doesn't totally bomb.

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