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  1. #1
    Lieutenant Colonel Matt G's Avatar
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    Default Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    http://www.gateworld.net/news/2013/0...save-stargate/

    Sorry for rambling about this article on the forums Darren but for whatever reason I can't log in to the site comments sections so I'll put my thoughts on here.

    To me, if the original Stargate film had been the only Stargate-related story released up to now...then it wouldn't mean that much to me. It would just be another cool 90s scifi film that I might rewatch every few years.

    Furthermore I highly doubt anyone would care enough about it for MGM to want to give it a second look 20 years later. Let's face it, a lot of cool films don't need sequels.

    What made the universe come alive was the TV franchise. Yes there are a few people that consider the original movie a classic and not like the TV series but nowadays, when Joe Average thinks of Stargate, they are more likely to think of the TV franchise, probably SG1 to be precise.

    In short, the Stargate "product" to use the terms MGM are probably thinking in, owes it's existence more to the TV series than to the original movie. If the TV franchise cannon never happened then for the fans it would be like being thrown into an alternate reality and being expected to believe that the last 20 years didn't happen.

    Even for Joe Average, they'd be asking "where's Richard Dean Anderson?" "where's the blonde scientist?" "where's the big guy with the stick?". If you do not reference those characters, even they are going to be confused and your product will fail.

    Realistically, any Stargate reboot is going to need to be a "complete" reboot. Forget the movie, forget the TV series. Look at Battlestar Galactica. Last anyone heard from the original series was 1980 right? The new show started up circa 2003. That's the sort of time gap we have to think about.

    Last SGU ep was 2011. So MGM shouldn't be seriously thinking about a reboot before some point in the 2030s.

    With Star Trek you're comparing apples to oranges. There is an in-story reason for that timeline getting rebooted. Maybe something similar could be done in the Stargate universe but trying to do a reboot without it anytime soon isn't going to work.

    Bottom line, the pre-existing TV series are owed some kind of acknowledgement in any future productions.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    I agree with Darren on some points. I think MGM would consider doing a feature film before doing another TV series and I don't think there will be a movie to wrap up SG1, SGA or SGU. But not sure a total reboot is the answer either.

    The easy thing to say is reboot the franchise but the quandry is what form should that reboot take? Should it be a reboot of Devlin's original movie with a vision of SG that is very different from the TV series, a movie that reboots the franchise that follows the direction that the TV series went or reboot it in a way that brings in some of the old characters with a new take/direction to the SG story that allows a bridge between what was and what will be. There are pros and cons to all.

    Everyone mentions the recent ST reboot, but in reality the entire franchise was first rebooted with a feature film that continued the stories of the original cast. Then there were other movies that first kept the original characters then weaved in the new generation characters. There was a bridge between old and new. And even the JJ Abrams movie reboot featured the original characters - albeit in a different timeline but they did attempt to bridge the 2 versions.

    Others mention the Spiderman, Superman, Batman franchises - I don't consider those reboots, I consider them the retelling's of a characters story - the franchise is the character. While those movies are action packed and have a lot of special effects, it is essentially the same character with a new take on his story each time. I get that many are not as attached to the character as to the story, but I do believe that it is the characters that fans get to know, as much as a good story; and that is what helps a franchise endure. And fans tend to build a very strong, emotional and longlasting loyalty to the characters more than I think the story concept.

    I think it would be difficult to reboot SG with Devlin's story and/or from the very beginning with new characters, new stories, new versions. It is hard to erase 17 seasons of stories, characters and mythology. If MGM went that route it would gnerate a lot of discussion, anger, comparisions and questions. I think it would make it harder for the movie to be successful because it would constantly be compared to the TV series. There would be as much talk about the series as the movie; which is in some ways good, but if the intent is to do an entire brand new reboot I am sure MGM would want the discussion to be more about the movie. It also would put more pressure on the movie to be so great and/or successful that it would transcend the success of the 17 seasons it was on TV. Not an easy task.

    I love the concept of SG and would go to see a new movie that reboots the franchise, but as one who loved the characters more my heart would not be in it. My loyalty would foremost be with what came before.

    How do you take a franchise, with a story that was told over 17 seasons on TV and move that into a movie? I think it is risky for any successful franchise to do a total reboot and forget what came before as if it never existed. I think if they were going to to an entire reboot from the beginning it is too soon. If you did a partial reboot where you bridge the old and new into a new storline then I think the time is about right.

    I think MGM would need those original SG fans to be excited and on board with a feature movie. I don;t think that the SG franchise is big enough or mainstream enough to go it alone with a total new reboot without at least getting a good majority of original fans behind it -and for that you have to honor what came before. IMHO
    Last edited by EdenSG; September 17th, 2013 at 07:39 AM.

  3. #3
    General majorsal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    Quote Originally Posted by EdenSG View Post
    How do you take a franchise, with a story that was told over 17 seasons on TV and move that into a movie? I think it is risky for any successful franchise to do a total reboot and forget what came before as if it never existed. I think if they were going to to an entire reboot from the beginning it is too soon. If you did a partial reboot where you bridge the old and new into a new storline then I think the time is about right.

    I think MGM would need those original SG fans to be excited and on board with a feature movie. I don;t think that the SG franchise is big enough or mainstream enough to go it alone with a total new reboot without at least getting a good majority of original fans behind it -and for that you have to honor what came before. IMHO
    Last edited by majorsal; September 17th, 2013 at 06:58 PM.
    sally


  4. #4
    Staff Sergeant myowndrownedworld's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    Craig Engler is doing a Q&A on twitter and I am gonna ask him about stargate (the television show, not the reboot)

    He works at syfy

  5. #5
    Colonel Flyboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    I'm 100% with Darren on this.


    "Five Rounds Rapid"




  6. #6
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    I'm with him in the sense that I agree that the movies are probably the best way for the franchise to become successful again, but not in the sense that I'd ever like to see it happen. I'm invested in the mythology and the characters, not the brand name. The Devlin/Emmerich sequels might as well be a random franchise I'd never heard of from my perspective.

  7. #7
    Colonel Flyboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    For me it was the movie that I fell in love with, and then got more awesomeness from the series. So, as long as a movie saga can capture the magic I felt with the original movie, I'm happy. It won't detract from my appreciation of SG1 and SGU in anyway, because they're not going anywhere. They still remain on my shelf, so to speak!


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  8. #8
    Colonel Gatefan1976's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    Quote Originally Posted by KEK View Post
    I'm with him in the sense that I agree that the movies are probably the best way for the franchise to become successful again, but not in the sense that I'd ever like to see it happen. I'm invested in the mythology and the characters, not the brand name. The Devlin/Emmerich sequels might as well be a random franchise I'd never heard of from my perspective.
    What about the *concept* of the gate itself?
    That is what kept me watching, not because it had the stargate moniker (a la a "franchise fan"), but I always wanted to know where that wibbly wobbly would go this time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyboy
    For me it was the movie that I fell in love with, and then got more awesomeness from the series. So, as long as a movie saga can capture the magic I felt with the original movie, I'm happy. It won't detract from my appreciation of SG1 and SGU in anyway, because they're not going anywhere. They still remain on my shelf, so to speak!
    Exactly!

    The 3 of us have disagreed, vehemently at times about SG-1/SGA/SGU, yet it was the *gate* that always kept me watching, even when I may not have particularly liked what I saw.
    It's the gate itself I am a fan of, not any one movie or any one series. The gate was, for all intents and purpose, "3rd star to the right and straight on till morning"
    ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
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  9. #9
    General Blencathra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    Whenever anyone talks about a Stargate movie being made I instantly think of what happened with the Doctor Who movie in the 1990s. For those of you who don't know, Doctor Who was put on "hiatus" in 1989. Then in 1996 along came a movie - not made by the BBC incidentally. It had all the right elements, the Doctor, the TARDIS, the Master, and great actors (Paul McGann) but it just wasn't right. They tinkered with the show's mythology (the Doctor is half human? Really?) and the end result just wasn't Doctor Who. I worry that is what would happen with Stargate. It might have all the right ingredients on paper but in actuality it just won't be Stargate. And like the Doctor Who movie I might just wish it had never been made. Better to do without than have a travesty of the original.

  10. #10
    Colonel Gatefan1976's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blencathra View Post
    Whenever anyone talks about a Stargate movie being made I instantly think of what happened with the Doctor Who movie in the 1990s. For those of you who don't know, Doctor Who was put on "hiatus" in 1989. Then in 1996 along came a movie - not made by the BBC incidentally. It had all the right elements, the Doctor, the TARDIS, the Master, and great actors (Paul McGann) but it just wasn't right. They tinkered with the show's mythology (the Doctor is half human? Really?) and the end result just wasn't Doctor Who. I worry that is what would happen with Stargate. It might have all the right ingredients on paper but in actuality it just won't be Stargate. And like the Doctor Who movie I might just wish it had never been made. Better to do without than have a travesty of the original.
    The question is, without the movie, no matter what you think of it, would Who have come back?
    ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
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  11. #11
    General Blencathra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    The question is, without the movie, no matter what you think of it, would Who have come back?
    Yes, I think so. Certainly the DW movie had no immediate impact. The show was in the wilderness for another 9 years before it came back on TV. The BBC certainly didn't rush to get the show back on TV after the release of the film! Also parts of the the TV movie have been totally ignored by the current show runners (ie that half human business).

    Is it even possible that the poor reception of the movie might have put off the BBC bringing back the show on TV? Might the show have returned to TV earlier if the movie had not been made? A question impossible to answer I guess.

    So with Stargate, could you end up with a movie that is so bad that MGM won't consider making another TV series? It's something to think about.
    Last edited by Blencathra; September 21st, 2013 at 02:18 AM.

  12. #12
    Colonel Gatefan1976's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blencathra View Post
    Yes, I think so. Certainly the DW movie had no immediate impact.
    Are you SURE??
    the DW movie came into being during the 90's revitalization of Scifi on TV, much like the first ST movie was created during the initial rush of Star Wars. ST on TV also "wandered in the wilderness" for quite some time.

    The show was in the wilderness for another 9 years before it came back on TV. The BBC certainly didn't rush to get the show back on TV after the release of the film!
    Again, look as ST, did THEY bust a butt to get it back on TV either?

    Also parts of the the TV movie have been totally ignored by the current show runners (ie that half human business).
    Sure, a movie will never have the depth of a series, and some "made for movie" elements just............ Suck.
    Is it even possible that the poor reception of the movie might have put off the BBC bringing back the show on TV?
    Sure, it may have, I will not argue with you there. Counter question, would a TV series have survived in the 90's?
    My gut says YES, the 90's was good to scifi as a genre. Would Who have gotten a look in?, not sure on that one.

    Might the show have returned to TV earlier if the movie had not been made? A question impossible to answer I guess.
    Indeed.
    So with Stargate, could you end up with a movie that is so bad that MGM won't consider making another TV series? It's something to think about.
    Oh, I am VERY aware of that. If a movie relaunch fails, Stargate is dead for a generation, but with no one looking to do it as a TV series either, it's already dead, isn't it?
    ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    What about the *concept* of the gate itself?
    That is what kept me watching, not because it had the stargate moniker (a la a "franchise fan"), but I always wanted to know where that wibbly wobbly would go this time.
    I don't think it's all that unique. A world-of-the week episodic is something that has been done lot of times, just with different plot devices. If something were to keep me hooked it would be the links with real world mythology, but I don't think I'd ever be able to enjoy it to the full with the other series in the back of my mind. I've never liked the idea of multi-verse franchises.

  14. #14
    General Blencathra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    Are you SURE??
    Well to my mind if the BBC had loved the movie and were totally enthusiastic, why wait nine years? It's interesting what you say about Star Trek. I think the difference between DW and ST is that after the DW movie there was nothing, either on TV or at the cinema (though there were books, comics and audio), but with Star Trek there was a new movie every couple of years until ST: TNG.

    Even when DW did come back in 2005 it was more a case of the right people being in the right place at the right time & pushing with all their might, while others at the BBC were not behind it at all. Mark Thompson, the Director General of the BBC at the time even tried to halt production. Now obviously I'm not privy to what went on behind the scenes but isn't it feasible that the failure of the movie was yet another stick with which to beat Doctor Who & keep it off air? (I might just point that in terms of viewing figures the movie did well. However, the general consensus of reviewers and fans was that "they loved McGann, enjoyed Eric Roberts and kinda liked Daphne Ashbrook, but everyone involved with the script should be fed to hyenas.")

    So relating this to Stargate - is Emmerich capable of making a good Stargate movie? If he is then things may go the way of Star Trek with multiple movies and a return to TV. If he isn't... then it may take a very long time and perhaps only the persistence of fans who eventually become show runners and writers may get Stargate off the ground again.
    Last edited by Blencathra; September 21st, 2013 at 05:40 AM.

  15. #15
    Colonel Flyboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blencathra View Post
    Whenever anyone talks about a Stargate movie being made I instantly think of what happened with the Doctor Who movie in the 1990s. For those of you who don't know, Doctor Who was put on "hiatus" in 1989. Then in 1996 along came a movie - not made by the BBC incidentally. It had all the right elements, the Doctor, the TARDIS, the Master, and great actors (Paul McGann) but it just wasn't right. They tinkered with the show's mythology (the Doctor is half human? Really?) and the end result just wasn't Doctor Who. I worry that is what would happen with Stargate. It might have all the right ingredients on paper but in actuality it just won't be Stargate. And like the Doctor Who movie I might just wish it had never been made. Better to do without than have a travesty of the original.
    I adore that movie. And I believe it was a joint BBC/Fox production...


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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    I know we're all going to have different perspectives on this, but I don't agree that any Stargate is better than no Stargate. It's not just about the characters and the actors. It's more that just about everything I associate with Stargate came from the TV series, not the movie. Even the basic idea of a network of gates. And I don't think the Star Trek analogy fits here - it's a completely different situation. The Star Trek reboot has not attempted to erase the previous canon. It's still there, just in a different timeline. From my perspective, a better analogy would be Buffy the Vampire Slayer. How would people react if they decided to go back and do a sequel to the original movie and go in a completely different direction? No Willow, no Xander, no Angel, no Giles....no Sunnydale or Hellmouth. I don't think it would go over well. I guess to me, the original movie is no more part of the Stargate franchise than the original Buffy movie is part of the Buffy/Angel 'verse. And no, I'm not fond enough of the spinning ring to say that I'd rather erase 15 seasons of universe building than have no Stargate at all. Sorry. Sure, maybe Stargate will be rebooted eventually, whether as a Next Gen type series or a complete remake (like Hawaii Five-0 or BSG). But I think any successful reboot will have to acknowledge the TV show canon in some way, as Star Trek did, and not attempt to completely erase it.
    Last edited by Killdeer; September 25th, 2013 at 11:00 PM.
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  17. #17
    Colonel Flyboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Killdeer View Post
    I know we're all going to have different perspectives on this, but I don't agree that any Stargate is better than no Stargate. It's not just about the characters and the actors. It's more that just about everything I associate with Stargate came from the TV series, not the movie. Even the basic idea of a network of gates. And I don't think the Star Trek analogy fits here - it's a completely different situation. The Star Trek reboot has not attempted to erase the previous canon. It's still there, just in a different timeline. From my perspective, a better analogy would be Buffy the Vampire Slayer. How would people react if they decided to go back and do a sequel to the original movie and go in a completely different direction? No Willow, no Xander, no Angel, no Giles....no Sunnydale or Hellmouth. I don't think it would go over well. I guess to me, the original movie is no more part of the Stargate franchise than the original Buffy movie is part of the Buffy/Angel 'verse. And no, I'm not fond enough of the spinning ring to say that I'd rather erase 15 seasons of universe building than have no Stargate at all. Sorry. Sure, maybe Stargate will be rebooted eventually, whether as a Next Gen type series or a complete remake (like Hawaii Five-0 or BSG). But I think any successful reboot will have to acknowledge the TV show canon in some way, as Star Trek did, and not attempt to completely erase it.
    But it's NOT erased. One does not supercede the other. It's just different. SG-1 will STILL be on your shelf.


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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyboy View Post
    But it's NOT erased. One does not supercede the other. It's just different. SG-1 will STILL be on your shelf.
    I keep coming back to the Smallville analogy. No one had a problem with Superman Returns coming out alongside the televised run--neither continuity addressing the other.

    I could sooner see the argument with Buffy simply because Stargate is a fantastic concept, Superman is a fantastic concept, and Buffy is a stupid concept made great by a special creative team. Buffy is Joss Whedon, he's said as much recently, that all those years he thought he was writing Xander as himself, but towards the end he realized Buffy was him.

    Stargate on the other hand is just a strong concept. I do think they'd do well to borrow from RDA's style of not playing it completely straight--for one, that seems more realistic, as humans tend to crack a joke here and there.
    Last edited by Ripple in Space; September 27th, 2013 at 08:53 PM.
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  19. #19
    General majorsal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    for me, if it's rebooted in the emmerich/devlin way, it won't be *stargate*.

    stargate's not just the round thing that spins and takes ppl to other planets, but the characters and history and mythology that the series took hold of and brought to glorious life.

    a reboot is not *needed* to bring stargate back. if stargate were off for 10 years, i could possibly see this subject having some merit. but jeez, the actors aren't *that* old , and that's what would make any comeback the hardest to work around.

    it needs a comeback, not a reboot.

    as someone on 'blastr' said on this subject: "I don't think a "Re-Boot" is needed just some fresh ideas while staying within what has been established."
    sally


  20. #20
    Colonel Flyboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a movie reboot save Stargate?

    Quote Originally Posted by majorsal View Post
    for me, if it's rebooted in the emmerich/devlin way, it won't be *stargate*.

    stargate's not just the round thing that spins and takes ppl to other planets, but the characters and history and mythology that the series took hold of and brought to glorious life.

    a reboot is not *needed* to bring stargate back. if stargate were off for 10 years, i could possibly see this subject having some merit. but jeez, the actors aren't *that* old , and that's what would make any comeback the hardest to work around.

    it needs a comeback, not a reboot.

    as someone on 'blastr' said on this subject: "I don't think a "Re-Boot" is needed just some fresh ideas while staying within what has been established."
    I honestly disagree. I think the entire Gateverse has become too heavy and strayed too far from it's routes to be viable anymore. The beauty of SGU, for me, was that it almost completely disconnected itself from that which had been built up, making it entirely accessible to new viewers.


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