Why No Pegasus Project Black Hole?

[thekillman]

I replied with that because of your aforementioned quotes saying black holes are not a power source in the Stargate franchise. You are more than welcome to deny that you made those claims. I will not argue with you about it, all I did was copy & paste your words on this very page.

I know full well i said what i said. There's no wrong use of logic here.

for clarity:
I don't think that the pegasus-milkyway distance is an argument against the use of a black hole as a power source in general.

However, the distance to pegasus is vastly less than the distance to destiny. A BH powering a gate to pegasus is nowhere near the same order of magnitude as powering a gate to Destiny.
Just because it can -apparently, cause i still don't like it- power a gate to Pegasus is no guarantee it can dial Destiny.

Considering it was unanimous that an average star had more than enough power to dial the distance between Destiny & the Milky Way, I don't see why a black hole would only provide "99%."

Since i just showed this isn't the case, i think we're back to:

A black hole can not power a gate to destiny.

I would make a sideorder of:

A blackhole that CAN do that is probably something you don't wanna open a gate next to cause it would crush you.

[garhkal]

garhkal, I've always really liked you, and have had a great deal of respect for you. I will assume you did not see the quote I had attached to my statement, nor did you see the post I made directly above your own.

I do tend to post sometimes before i have read every other posting.. So yea, i didn't see your other one above where mine came in.

[wingsabre]

They've established long ago that stargates can be powered by a black hole. They've also established long ago that the time dilation from a black hole can extend the time a gate remains open almost indefinitely. So in theory, they should be able to have an Icarus project next to a black hole. However, if you watched Pegasus Project, the Pegasus gate was very close to the black hole. The Odyssey was close enough to experience some time dilation, and their sensors and communication array were less effective. This made it a lot easier for the Wraith to go unnoticed, and the Odyssey only got a heads up after Atlantis dialed SGC to relay the message to them through the gate. Having an Icarus project right next to a black hole may be too dangerous because they have to be too close to the black hole for it to work, and they'll essentially be defenseless because they won't have sensors or viable communication.

Also, if you look at the Supergate, it's relatively far from the black hole. It's far enough to not experience any time dilation effect. It may be that the size and design of the Supergate allows it to tap into the black hole without being too close. So in theory, Icarus Black hole project would have to have a larger base capable of tapping into the black hole, or they'll have to design a gate that's better at absorbing power from a farther distance. The Tauri does not have the knowledge yet to build gates, and the Icarus project was supposed to be a covert research project. A giant defenseless base in space kind of defeats the purpose. At least with the Icarus planet, you could hide the base

[thekillman]

They've established long ago that stargates can be powered by a black hole. They've also established long ago that the time dilation from a black hole can extend the time a gate remains open almost indefinitely.

1: they did not
2: they did.

The first time a Black hole / stargate combo appears is in Matter of Time where the time dilation of of the black hole ensures the far-away gate never crosses the 38-minute mark and so never shuts down.

In Camelot i think they suddenly turn this to "a black hole powers a gate".

[wingsabre]

1: they did not
2: they did.

The first time a Black hole / stargate combo appears is in Matter of Time where the time dilation of of the black hole ensures the far-away gate never crosses the 38-minute mark and so never shuts down.

In Camelot i think they suddenly turn this to "a black hole powers a gate".

It's been years since they've aired Camelot, so yes, they've established it for a while already that black holes can power gates, or at least gates can draw power from black holes.

They've also established that the gate can absorb energy, even low level energy, and that can extend the time the gate remains open. Even now there's theories that black holes emit Hawking's Radiation, so it's theoretically possible.

[thekillman]

Even now there's theories that black holes emit Hawking's Radiation, so it's theoretically possible.

Look ~5 of my posts higher and i show why it's not possible.

[Mister Oragahn]

Because i do not believe for one second that the black hole is the power source.

The reason a black hole is useful is that the actual time the gate is open is much shorter. e.g. 1 hour for the gate is 1 day for the rest of us.

The supergate is pretty big and every segment can easily fit a reactor or ZPM to generate the necessary power.

God, but unfortunately the time dilation effects were never that severe, not to say that increased mass would also mean, somehow, increase energy requirements. Not to say that the show is clear about the BH being a power source.
Luckily, they never say how.
Hawking radiation is useless. Well, no, but the black hole would be small and short lived. Not exactly what we see in the show. Plus the orientation of the jets is also important and seems largely neglected by the writers.
Only more normal and intense radiation from the accretion disk would be fun to use. More like in a star, but it's still very messy.
Some field would have to be extended over a wiiiiiiiide area to collect all wasted particles shot in every direction.

They also just seem to stick the stargates randomly in orbit of those things. Not even close enough to make a difference. A stargate would pretty much have to cast some kind of invisible and huge dragnet to collect a significant amount of the particles released by the black hole.

However, I for one consider that as well as it is the case for Destiny, what really powers a stargate is not derived from the aftermath of an already ran fusion reaction, but something related to gravity (and perhaps electricity ? ). That or simple hydrogen collecting.
You also have the topic about antimatter being present in the vicinity of photospheres, which might not be useless to consider.

Now I'm sure the show would disagree with that, but I think it would have make a bit more sense to have a black hole actually render the creation of a wormhole simpler, like some kickstarter and amplifier all at once.


Neither answer the question of why they don't use BH to power stargates though. Because we know they can, and should.
To do that, we have to point out that as far as we know, only supergate possessed the tech to exploit black holes to create a wormhole between two very distant galaxies.
So no supergate, no super wormhole.

Oh, btw, contrary to what 99.9999% of people think, there's a good reason to consider stargates to be very shallow. Most of their inner volume is emptiness. They have to be more like an acceleration tube than a solid ring.

[Mister Oragahn]

To me, accepting that a black hole can power a stargate opens a can of worms i'm not willing to accept. Not in the least because it would make almost all of SGA look stupid? they were looking for ZPM's to power the city and dial home. Turns out all they needed was to get a stargate around a black hole for convenient 2-way dialling with minimal (seconds?!) time dilation.

as noted in this post, this "small matter" could make the entire Atlantis series look stupid.

Most of the series was spent learning about Atlantis and stargates, and/or hiding from the Wraith, etc.
They never really had the peaceful conditions to settle near a black hole and do their thing.
Besides, even if a stargate could be used that way, how would that translate into Atlantis suddenly being capable of the same thing?

Perhaps stargates can tap subspace, or at least suck energy that's, for some reason, massively concentrated/funneled in that point of subspace close to a blackhole (and perhaps a star as well, mass is not that different). The black hole would be a siphon, an attractor where subspace energy concentrates, and you basically have to place a bucket to collect like mad.
So the stargate would act like a dam of some kind.
We know subspace is used by stargate for the transfer of energy because of the link between a DHD and a stargate is immaterial, and generally the solution is ITZ SUBZPAYS!!
Hyperspace belongs to subspace and hyperspace has radiations (energy).