Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 33
  1. #1
    Second Lieutenant Energizer_Vs_ZPM's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    502

    Default Just how did it fly?

    I'm curious about how Atlantis could actually fly and manouvere.

    Look at this (although I think it's the Asurans ship it's the same design and principle):


    It clearly has those bad boy engines underneath each pier supporting arm and we all know that Atlantis flys upwards when taking off and also when flying through space / hyperspace.

    In the episode where Atlantis leaves Lantia (I think thats the planets name lol) Atlantis drops out of hyperspace and then continues moving sideways. This indicates that it has somehow turned itself somehow.

    Now we only see the engine outlets under the piers. We don't see any other sorts of thrusters anywhere and yet Atlantis is able to manouvere itself round 180 degrees in orbit after exiting hyperspace in order to land on a new planet. Additionally it would also need some sort of upwards firing thursters to act as brakes yet we never see this either.

    On one pier we see what look like super huge rudders like you'd find on a boat or plane but in space those would be useless (especially when flying upwards lol).

    So.. just how did Atlantis perform it's manouveres?

  2. #2
    Colonel P-90_177's Avatar
    Member Since
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Traveling through Time and Space
    Posts
    7,111

    Default Re: Just how did it fly?

    Death Gliders and Hataks move with no visible engines. I don't have a problem believing that it's necessary for Atlantis to use only the engines on it's underside.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

  3. #3
    Chief Master Sergeant
    Member Since
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    227

    Default Re: Just how did it fly?

    Its a ship millions of years ahead of us in technology. It might not need "engine's" as you consider them, similar to many other races.

    It could also easily turn to almost any angle by using the engines we do see on the bottom separately and in sequence.

  4. #4
    Second Lieutenant Energizer_Vs_ZPM's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    502

    Default Re: Just how did it fly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Durgia View Post
    It could also easily turn to almost any angle by using the engines we do see on the bottom separately and in sequence.
    In an atmosphere where there is drag and resistance yes without a doubt but in space you don't have either of those!

  5. #5
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2007
    Location
    My Throne in Heaven
    Posts
    18,742

    Default Re: Just how did it fly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Energizer_Vs_ZPM View Post
    In an atmosphere where there is drag and resistance yes without a doubt but in space you don't have either of those!
    Uhm... the center of mass is at the control tower. Fire up the engines on one pier. The city turns. Fire the engines opposite to the 1st pier. city stabilizes. Fire all engines to pick up speed. Once the right speed is reached, shut down the engines. on slowdown, rotate the city 180 degrees and slow it down.

    I don't see the problem. space is so much better to fly in that the atmosphere.

  6. #6
    Second Lieutenant Energizer_Vs_ZPM's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    502

    Default Re: Just how did it fly?

    Except that you need gravity and drag to perform the manouveres you're speaking about as you need resistance on the side that you want to move slower when trying to accelerate the other side.

  7. #7
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2007
    Location
    My Throne in Heaven
    Posts
    18,742

    Default Re: Just how did it fly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Energizer_Vs_ZPM View Post
    Except that you need gravity and drag to perform the manouveres you're speaking about as you need resistance on the side that you want to move slower when trying to accelerate the other side.
    What? no of course not. If you have a free body sphere then you apply a force tangential to the surface, the sphere will start to spin.

    original impulse equation:

    F*dt = M*dV (F= force, dt=change in time, M is mass, dV is change in velocity)

    Since we have a moment not a force, both sides are multiplied by radius r. this gives:


    (F*r)*dt=M*dw. (impulse equation where F*R is the moment applied (force times radius) dt is the period of time it is applied, M is mass and dw is change in rotation speed (yes the w should be an omega)).

    Apply such a force to the body for a very short time. it starts to rotate at a certain speed. once you are at the angle you need to be, apply a force in the exact opposite direction. Since Atlantis has engines on one side, it means firing the thruster 180 degrees from the original thruster, for exactly the same time. The city no longer rotates and has changed it's angle. Fire all thrusters and the city moves in a direction without rotation.


    Space is pure dynamics, no aerodynamics are required.

  8. #8
    Chief Master Sergeant
    Member Since
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    227

    Default Re: Just how did it fly?

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    What? no of course not. If you have a free body sphere then you apply a force tangential to the surface, the sphere will start to spin.

    original impulse equation:

    F*dt = M*dV (F= force, dt=change in time, M is mass, dV is change in velocity)

    Since we have a moment not a force, both sides are multiplied by radius r. this gives:


    (F*r)*dt=M*dw. (impulse equation where F*R is the moment applied (force times radius) dt is the period of time it is applied, M is mass and dw is change in rotation speed (yes the w should be an omega)).

    Apply such a force to the body for a very short time. it starts to rotate at a certain speed. once you are at the angle you need to be, apply a force in the exact opposite direction. Since Atlantis has engines on one side, it means firing the thruster 180 degrees from the original thruster, for exactly the same time. The city no longer rotates and has changed it's angle. Fire all thrusters and the city moves in a direction without rotation.


    Space is pure dynamics, no aerodynamics are required.
    ^----- What he said

  9. #9
    Second Lieutenant Energizer_Vs_ZPM's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    502

    Default Re: Just how did it fly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Durgia View Post
    ^----- What he said
    LOL ok then, put some numbers into that equation

  10. #10
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2007
    Location
    My Throne in Heaven
    Posts
    18,742

    Default Re: Just how did it fly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Energizer_Vs_ZPM View Post
    LOL ok then, put some numbers into that equation
    I don't understand what you mean. His reply is useless sure. Is this aimed at me too?

  11. #11
    Second Lieutenant Energizer_Vs_ZPM's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    502

    Default Re: Just how did it fly?

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    I don't understand what you mean. His reply is useless sure. Is this aimed at me too?
    No it wasn't aimed at you lol. It was aimed at durgia who seemed to give the impression he understood the maths and was agreeing with it lol.

  12. #12
    Chief Master Sergeant
    Member Since
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    227

    Default Re: Just how did it fly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Energizer_Vs_ZPM View Post
    No it wasn't aimed at you lol. It was aimed at durgia who seemed to give the impression he understood the maths and was agreeing with it lol.
    The Math is about a simple as you get in relation to force in space. You have at least 6 separate engine modules that can apply force that would cause a rotation on one of 3 axis's. I did not spell out a big equation but it does go directly with my original reply to your assumption that an object cannot turn in space.

    That is without taking into consideration that on a ship that advanced it is possible for bi-directional thrust and having paired sets of engines using opposite thrust to turn quickly as needed. The engines are also angled on the substructure such that you could turn the city without bi-directional or omnidirectional thrust.

    Putting in formulas is very difficult to a forum and I posted my response to thekillman as an applause for the attempt.

    So far you have not given any evidence to support your idea that the city could not turn in space because of zero gravity or lack of drag, when it becomes easier to turn objects in space as you do not have to overcome these obstacles.

  13. #13
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2007
    Location
    My Throne in Heaven
    Posts
    18,742

    Default Re: Just how did it fly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Durgia View Post
    So far you have not given any evidence to support your idea that the city could not turn in space because of zero gravity or lack of drag, when it becomes easier to turn objects in space as you do not have to overcome these obstacles.
    I am absolutely gobsmacked at your reply in relation to your previous one.

  14. #14
    Second Lieutenant destiny khan's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    285

    Default Re: Just how did it fly?

    well in andromeda series, it was explained that with the use of artificial gravity generators, they could change the weight of a huge ship like that into like 1 kilogram only and then propel that with anti matter... the ancients jumpers could manipulate their weight to make themselves heavier or lighter using inertial dampeners, so i assume that is true for the city itself as well....
    using that they might be easily able to maneuver the city rather than just straight up and down...

  15. #15
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2007
    Location
    My Throne in Heaven
    Posts
    18,742

    Default Re: Just how did it fly?

    Well if you can find the city's water displacement, we can find it's mass. If we get it's mass, the planets gravitational accelleration and the distance it needs to be moved up, we can find how much energy is needed at minimum.

    Find some figure for air density and we can find what kind of power is needed to put Atlantis in space.

  16. #16
    First Lieutenant McAvoy's Avatar
    Member Since
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    516

    Default Re: Just how did it fly?

    Keep in mind that Atlantis seems to be fairly shallow in terms of how much water it displaces. I am only saying that from the perspective without any real hard math to support it. Just an observation based on my experience on different types of ships displace water.

    It is entirely possible Atlantis is built fairly light or uses technology to prevent itself from sinking.

  17. #17
    Lieutenant Colonel jmoz's Avatar
    Member Since
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Undefined
    Posts
    4,001

    Default Re: Just how did it fly?

    Maybe Atlantis is already buoyant but uses energy or ballasts? or tanks filling it with water or something to make itself heavier to sink? Like a submarine.

  18. #18
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2007
    Location
    My Throne in Heaven
    Posts
    18,742

    Default Re: Just how did it fly?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmoz View Post
    or tanks filling it with water or something to make itself heavier to sink? Like a submarine.
    God what episode was it? i think in Ghost In the Machine it shows that the city indeed has such tanks.


    Keep in mind that Atlantis seems to be fairly shallow in terms of how much water it displaces.
    Yea that's true. Still, the city isn't that high either: most of it's volume is the engine platform. The buildings on top would not contribute an aweful lot of weight. All in all i think it's a fair amount.

  19. #19
    First Lieutenant McAvoy's Avatar
    Member Since
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    516

    Default Re: Just how did it fly?

    I don't think those buildings would be that heavy either. I would be more concerned about the engines. Typically in ships, the engines are the heaviest, unless the ship is armored, then it would be armored.

    Obviously, Atlantis isn't built like a true warship and it relatively fragile.

  20. #20
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2007
    Location
    My Throne in Heaven
    Posts
    18,742

    Default Re: Just how did it fly?

    Quote Originally Posted by McAvoy View Post
    I don't think those buildings would be that heavy either. I would be more concerned about the engines. Typically in ships, the engines are the heaviest, unless the ship is armored, then it would be armored.

    Obviously, Atlantis isn't built like a true warship and it relatively fragile.
    yea yea, but it means that the displacement of Atlantis isn't that out of the ordinary as you said. I think it's fairly O.K. It's not much of a spaceship either: it acts more as a platform with some necessary systems than a full-blown spaceship with all the necessities. All in all, i doubt it's such a rare thing.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •