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Is Defiance a major flop for Syfy?

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    Is Defiance a major flop for Syfy?

    For those not following the ratings this weeks episode, the 9th, pulled in only 1.6 million viewers. During its first season Sanctuary pulled an average of 2.36 million viewers.

    With critics giving it mediocre reviews and viewers apparently agreeing, the idea that Defiance would be a major move in reestablishing Syfy as a credible scifi network is over. Despite the money Syfy put into the show its seen as just another so-so effort by the network.

    Despite the money, the video game and the hype Defiance hasn't even been a blip on the tv landscape. Shows like Eureka, Battlestar Galactica and Warehouse 13 were noticed and written about by mainstream media. Defiance has dropped completely off that radar.

    I guess we can always hope the RDM show Helix will be decent.

    #2
    Except for the part where it was renewed for a second season four episodes into its run?
    "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

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      #3
      Originally posted by techs View Post
      For those not following the ratings this weeks episode, the 9th, pulled in only 1.6 million viewers. During its first season Sanctuary pulled an average of 2.36 million viewers.

      With critics giving it mediocre reviews and viewers apparently agreeing, the idea that Defiance would be a major move in reestablishing Syfy as a credible scifi network is over. Despite the money Syfy put into the show its seen as just another so-so effort by the network.
      Where do you get the idea that Defiance would be a "major move"? I am curious as to where you get that idea from.

      Despite the money, the video game and the hype Defiance hasn't even been a blip on the tv landscape. Shows like Eureka, Battlestar Galactica and Warehouse 13 were noticed and written about by mainstream media. Defiance has dropped completely off that radar.
      Google "defiance reviews" and look at who has written about it dude.

      I guess we can always hope the RDM show Helix will be decent.
      Don't get me wrong, I am very disappointed with Defiance as well, but how it performs on TV is not going to be much of an indicator on how successful it is *for NBC*
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        #4
        Originally posted by DigiFluid View Post
        Except for the part where it was renewed for a second season four episodes into its run?
        That doesn't matter to people apparently, only their opinion and one they read from some guy online are how they base these things.

        I for one love the show and see these tv critic give it low scores yet go ahead and praise reality tv for innovation etc, makes me want to hurl.

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          #5
          The word 'flop' has been tossed around A LOT these days especially if you visit a site like TVBTN whose comment section is LITTERED with posts containing the word itself in place of the show title, but I ask you, do these people even known what the word means? Or do they just like throwing it out there to sound 'cool' or 'funny'.

          For instance, I've seen people over there calling Revolution a flop when it started with 4.1 million in the all important 18-49 demographic and closed the season with a 2.0 in the same demo when most NBC shows struggle to even maintain as high as 1.9, in short Revolution is a hit by NBC standards and will continue to be so if it can maintain these numbers on Wednesday nights next season.

          Defiance started the season with an above average 1.0 though dropped to 0.9 but stayed there for a good three weeks.

          So, to answer your question, yes, by SyFy standards Defiance is a hit SCRIPTED show.

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            #6
            So Defiance makes this huge deal about how it's "transmedia" bringing together a TV show, a game and lots of stuff on the internet (I haven't really checked but there seems to be some background info..).. People all over the world can experience Defiance in any or all of these ways to get as much out of it as they want..

            ....And it's success or failure is still based entirely on North American TV viewing figures?

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              #7
              Originally posted by techs View Post
              For those not following the ratings this weeks episode, the 9th, pulled in only 1.6 million viewers. During its first season Sanctuary pulled an average of 2.36 million viewers.

              With critics giving it mediocre reviews and viewers apparently agreeing, the idea that Defiance would be a major move in reestablishing Syfy as a credible scifi network is over. Despite the money Syfy put into the show its seen as just another so-so effort by the network.

              Despite the money, the video game and the hype Defiance hasn't even been a blip on the tv landscape. Shows like Eureka, Battlestar Galactica and Warehouse 13 were noticed and written about by mainstream media. Defiance has dropped completely off that radar.

              I guess we can always hope the RDM show Helix will be decent.
              If you are going to use Sanctuary as a comparison (which isn't a good idea as it aired in the Fall on a Friday) then you need to use the correct numbers - ain't no way they averaged 2.36 million viewers Live+SD, it looks like you may have gotten some Live+7 numbers there. BTW Sanctuary's 9th ep got a mere 1,538,000 viewers.

              As for Defiance being a major flop, well that all depends on how much profit they are making. I like the show but to me it's lacking something, it definitely has a lot of potential but it's unrealised at this point, which is a shame.
              -

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                #8
                I think people who don't recognize that Defiance has been a major failure for Syfy are probably the same people who so strongly supported Stargate:Universe. There is a subset of scifi viewers who will rate any scifi show strongly regardless as to how bad it it.

                Defiance was put forth as a "game changer". A (relatively) big budget return of Syfy to real science fiction. Yet, the shows ratings are dramatically lower than previous flagship shows on Syfy. The show is on Mondays which is, iirc, the second largest primetime audience of the week. And yet the numbers are far less than Stargate: Universe or BSG or Stargate:Atlantis, etc. Those shows were often on Friday nights which is the well known "Friday night death slot" for its very low numbers of people who watch on Friday.

                The critics and viewers all agree the show is a big "meh". Of course there are the people who argued that Stargate: Universe was a well made and a great show. They are clearly over represented in a scifi forum. And they are actually hurting quality scifi programming. When you can throw any thing up on the air that is scifi and can depend on the usual suspects praising the show and the hard core scifi viewers to watch, there is no incentive to make a good show.

                Continuum is a Canadian show made for about 25 percent the cost of Defiance. It has also already aired in Canada and is one of the most pirated shows on the web. PLUS it shows in the Friday Night Death Slot AND it shows at 10 pm! Yet, last weeks Continuum had 1.28 million viewers compared to Defiances 1.6 million viewers!

                Defiance has not arrested the death spiral of scifi on Syfy which it was clearly designed to do. Even if Defiance was to improve greatly, like Alphas did, the viewers don't start suddenly watching a show without good buzz from reviews or viewers. And outside of the fanatic few Defiance has neither.

                As I predicted a few weeks ago I thought that Defiance would bottom at 1.5 to 1.6 million viewers. And the second season is going to have even less viewers. Just check out the numbers from shows like Alphas and Sanctuary and Stargate: Universe which were met with the same critical responses from viewers and critics during their second season.

                The argument that Defiance is a success because Syfy is making money off the video game means nothing to me. I don't judge a tv show by how much it makes off a game. I judge it by how good the show is. Wrestling made a lot of money for Syfy. But I don't call Wrestling good scifi.

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                  #9
                  Thumbs down for this show IMO. A half SciFi/Western, with too much alien booga booga ceremonies .
                  no means no, and so does pepper spray
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                    #10
                    I have watched this show a couple of times and I can only ever think one thing. It reminds me of a modern/current Babylon 5......only not as good and no where near as likeable.
                    I like Sharky
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                      #11
                      Originally posted by techs View Post
                      I think people who don't recognize that Defiance has been a major failure for Syfy are probably the same people who so strongly supported Stargate:Universe. There is a subset of scifi viewers who will rate any scifi show strongly regardless as to how bad it is.
                      Not I if you are putting me in that group.

                      Defiance was put forth as a "game changer". A (relatively) big budget return of Syfy to real science fiction.
                      Syfy has never stopped showing Scifi, as for a game changer, it is the *transmedia* idea that is the game changer, not the show itself.

                      Yet, the shows ratings are dramatically lower than previous flagship shows on Syfy. The show is on Mondays which is, iirc, the second largest primetime audience of the week. And yet the numbers are far less than Stargate: Universe or BSG or Stargate:Atlantis, etc. Those shows were often on Friday nights which is the well known "Friday night death slot" for its very low numbers of people who watch on Friday.
                      Friday night has been a haven for sci-fi veiwers for years. I would wager that if the Wrestling was not "Friday night Smackdown" and has held that moniker for years, Syfy would probably want to move it to another night.
                      The critics and viewers all agree the show is a big "meh".
                      Sure, the majority of the comments on this thread are of a "meh" or "not a fan" nature.
                      Of course there are the people who argued that Stargate: Universe was a well made and a great show. They are clearly over represented in a scifi forum.
                      For every person arguing that SGU was the "bee's knees" there were people arguing that it was not. I would agree that *stargate fans* are over-represented on *Gateworld*, but that is hardly suprising, is it?
                      And they are actually hurting quality scifi programming.
                      How?

                      When you can throw any thing up on the air that is scifi and can depend on the usual suspects praising the show and the hard core scifi viewers to watch, there is no incentive to make a good show.
                      Of course the "hardcore scifi viewers" will give any show a go, they want shows that they will personally like. To *not* give a show at least "a go" is a far sillier thing to do.
                      Continuum is a Canadian show made for about 25 percent the cost of Defiance. It has also already aired in Canada and is one of the most pirated shows on the web.
                      Unless you are hosting a Pirate service, there is no way to know how popular a show is via illegal downloads, such things are not tracked. Even if they *are* tracked by any pirate site, why should a network care? If you download stuff illegally, you are NOT their customer.

                      PLUS it shows in the Friday Night Death Slot AND it shows at 10 pm! Yet, last weeks Continuum had 1.28 million viewers compared to Defiances 1.6 million viewers!
                      Again, Friday night is not a deathslot for Scifi.
                      Defiance has not arrested the death spiral of scifi on Syfy which it was clearly designed to do.
                      How so?
                      It's designed to make money, and the show is just one part of that equation.

                      Even if Defiance was to improve greatly, like Alphas did, the viewers don't start suddenly watching a show without good buzz from reviews or viewers. And outside of the fanatic few Defiance has neither.
                      If they lift their game (subjectively speaking) then they will get good reviews and buzz.

                      The argument that Defiance is a success because Syfy is making money off the video game means nothing to me. I don't judge a tv show by how much it makes off a game. I judge it by how good the show is. Wrestling made a lot of money for Syfy. But I don't call Wrestling good scifi.
                      Ratings do not measure *quality of content*, and Syfy/NBC/Comcast *are* looking at the total picture.
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                      A lie is just a truth that hasn't gone through conversion therapy yet
                      The truth isn't the truth

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by The Flyattractor View Post
                        I have watched this show a couple of times and I can only ever think one thing. It reminds me of a modern/current Babylon 5......only not as good and no where near as likeable.
                        I did get a Babylon 5 vibe from the show. Unfortunately, it just hasn't executed as well as Babylon 5 did with the writing, in my opinion. The potential is there with the setting and the characters, but something definitely feels "off" with the show. It's disappointing because I really want to like the show and to have it succeed.

                        B5 succeeded I think because there was a unified vision and 5-year arc that was already planned in advance. Defiance, despite its intriguing setting and characters, feels like a patchwork because there are so many different writers and I get the sense that they're struggling to unify the direction of the show. *shrugs*
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                          #13
                          I have been watching the show since the first episode. I'm on the fence about it. I think one problem is I just don't like any of the major characters, Not one seems likeable to me.
                          Each one seems to be out only for themselves, really. (with the exception of Amanda).
                          I'm hoping that changes as the season goes on.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Perelandra View Post
                            I have been watching the show since the first episode. I'm on the fence about it. I think one problem is I just don't like any of the major characters, Not one seems likeable to me.
                            Each one seems to be out only for themselves, really. (with the exception of Amanda).
                            I'm hoping that changes as the season goes on.

                            That's interesting because the lack of empathy for the major characters (except Eli) was a major complaint about Stargate: Universe.

                            And I have to agree. I don't really "like" Nolan as I did O'neil or some other of the Stargate characters. Even the very flawed BSG characters elicited an emotional response far beyond any Defiance character. If Erisa died I would pretty much go ho hum. Same with the Casti father and mother. And I would probably personally like to eliminate the annoying love struck kids.

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                              #15
                              Well I'm hoping that changes and the characters grow, as they did in SGU, although I loved SGU from the get-go. There are some good aspects to the Defiance, so I'm rooting for it.
                              I'm continuing to watch the show, and did enjoy the episode with BJS, so we'll see what happens.
                              I think my other problem is the transmedia thing-I'm too busy to go to other websites to get the back-story, and I don't play video games. I have gone to the other website to get caught up-but casual viewers aren't going to do that.
                              Now, of course, I'm of a different era, my son is excited that "Halo" is becoming a TV show, so maybe it's the wave of the future.
                              Last edited by Perelandra; 20 June 2013, 06:58 AM.

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