Ship: Ivanova - Winters

[Jershon]

In seasons 2 & 3 we got to see some of Susan's heart in her relationship with Talia Winters. It was even said that Susan thought she "loved Talia". I'd like to hear people's take on their relationship and what it would have meant for the show if it had had the chance to develop. Do you think they were a good match? Would it have been romantic or simply an affectionate, close bond of friendship?

I'll start I guess. To be honest I wasn't a big fan of the Talia character to begin with. I thought she was too snooty for my tastes so my thoughts on their relationship is probably skewed. I don't imagine them being a good romantic match (particularly with all the baggage Susan had about telepaths) but I'm not discounting it either. Even the hint of it suggested an open-mindedness to possibilities on human emotion.

Thoughts?

[Nolamom]

I'm not sure I agree with your assessment of "what it would have meant for the show if it had had the chance to develop". As a planned, 5 year series, I believe the relationship between them as portrayed was all that it was intended to be. Now, what would it have meant if Straczynski had decided to go in another or continuing direction?

[Jershon]

Well just because it was planned out doesn't mean there weren't changes in individual arcs... planned doesn't mean that everything's done it just means that there is a detailed outline. For example i read once (or heard it in a commentary, idr) that JMS had "planned on going back to Talia's story line" using that reflection or copy of her taken by Kosh, there just turned out to not be enough time to do that along side other more important stories.

[maneth]

It's possible that they might have continued this story, if Claudia Christian hadn't left the show at the end of the 4th season.

[Raw_Deal]

It's possible that they might have continued this story, if Claudia Christian hadn't left the show at the end of the 4th season.

As far as I know, the original plan for the fifth season - with CC - was that Ivanova would get involved with Byron (instead of Lyta).

[Jershon]

Really? never heard that one before.... don't know if i like that idea actually....

[Raw_Deal]

I actually think it had potential. Should have been interesting to see Ivanova torn between her loyalty to the station and Sheridan, and her loyalty to Byron and his cause (which would be up her ally).

If only they picked a Byron actor that would not be so obnoxious.

[Jershon]

ok with a different byron actor i might go with it.... but yeah he was obnoxious lol.
do you think a relationship with talia would have had the same effect? pulling ivanova between the station and her?

[Raw_Deal]

I don't think so.

Talia wasn't such a fanatic. Even if she did go openly against the Psi Corps I don't think she'd make the mistakes Byron made, or would let things escalate the way Byron did.

[maneth]

Oh, they could have done both. Talia could have consoled Susan after the loss of Byron, because his martyrdom was always on the cards. I must admit that the fact that CC leaving meant we never saw the Byron romance is the only good thing about her leaving. That said, I don't think Robin Atkin Downes is such a bad actor, it's just that the character was written to be a whiny marty type. He did a pretty decent job in "Babylon 5: In The Beginning" as the Minbari Morann. Admittedly not a very big role.

[Cold Fuzz]

If Andrea Thompson had not decided to leave Babylon 5 near the middle of season 2, then it's very likely that an Ivanova/Talia relationship would have unfolded, albeit with subtlety.

The departure of Talia from the show wasn't originally planned, but JMS did have a contingency plan (or trapdoor as he liked to put it) for the character. That's what we saw unfold in "Divided Loyalties" in season 2 and again in late season 4 with Ivanova's departure. In fact, JMS said that he had trapdoors planned for every character in case something really went wrong with contract disputes, etc.

[McAvoy]

I actually think it had potential. Should have been interesting to see Ivanova torn between her loyalty to the station and Sheridan, and her loyalty to Byron and his cause (which would be up her ally).

If only they picked a Byron actor that would not be so obnoxious.

I don't think the actor was that big a problem but more of the script he had to work with. I may be wrong and actually have to pay attention to him. Normally I tune him out.

Ivanova would have been far more interesting. I can't remember offhand, but she was supposed to get B5 while Sheridan becomes president right? If so, then that would definitely be interesting.