Down in the Ground Where the Dead Men Go (103)

[GateWorld]

DEFIANCE - SEASON ONE DOWN IN THE GROUND WHERE THE DEAD MEN GO EPISODE NUMBER - 103 Nolan and Rafe go into the underground mines and the buried city of Old St. Louis in search of a runaway Votan criminal. Meanwhile, Irisa interferes with a ritual she finds morally abhorrent, drawing the ire of Datak. VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >>

[blueray]

just watched this episode. I liked it, though it was predictable that Ben (I think?) was going to get killed by that father and that the girl would set that guy free and then he'll want to die anyway.

[Nolamom]

the title kind of says it - the dead men

[blueray]

lol true, I actually didn't pay attention to the title.

[Gollumpus]

My initial thoughts are: why the heck aren't the people of Defiance rooting through the ruins of St. Louis for salvageable materials like copper wire, steel or other building materials, and so on?

What does Rafe mine? I don't recall hearing what they were digging up. And if his family was in the dog food business (as we saw in this episode) was that just an expansion of their business interests since they are supposed to have "owned mining interests in the area for generations" (http://en.defiance-wiki.com/wiki/Rafe_McCawley).

It wasn't too surprising that either of the two guys who wound up dead, wound up dead. In each case it was to protect their families.

regards,
G.

[Nolamom]

how do we know that those buildings haven't already been stripped of salvageable materials? the nuclear towers were relatively recent and removing nuclear material is not a simple or safe matter, but the other buildings didn't look as if they were pristine in any sense of the word.

[escyos]

My initial thoughts are: why the heck aren't the people of Defiance rooting through the ruins of St. Louis for salvageable materials like copper wire, steel or other building materials, and so on?

Po-tech (poor tech, or old Earth tech) is mostly considered useless. Vo-tech (Votan tech) is much better and wanted by all.

I imagine most Votans and people born during/after the war would not be interested in a chess board, mouldy cushions, pots and pans and DVD's of The Office.

What does Rafe mine? I don't recall hearing what they were digging up. And if his family was in the dog food business (as we saw in this episode) was that just an expansion of their business interests since they are supposed to have "owned mining interests in the area for generations" (http://en.defiance-wiki.com/wiki/Rafe_McCawley).

It wasn't too surprising that either of the two guys who wound up dead, wound up dead. In each case it was to protect their families.

He mines Gulanite, a powerful mineral and that glowing blue stuff on the walls of the mine and the bomb. I haven't updated some pages on the wiki yet with more recent info.

[min min light]

I imagine most Votans and people born during/after the war would not be interested in a chess board, mouldy cushions, pots and pans and DVD's of The Office.

Good point - right now, lots of things from thirty years ago would be useless. In some cases even less than thirty years - like video tapes and non-digital TVs.

[Nolamom]

hehehe - I use video tapes all the time in my classroom. Education is just in the process of updating to the 21st century.

[min min light]

If you were digging them out of the ground though you'd probably also need to find a working VCR, and most likely the bulk of the tapes you found would be soap operas and football games. Still, if I were starved for entertainment of some kind (did it look like they had much?) I'd probably go to the trouble of scavenging for them.

[blueray]

wow I just had the thought of people watching old tapings of a sports team, like say football. If someone recording all of a teams games, they could watch the season like it was new and not know who won.

[min min light]

I like the idea of that. In fact I really like the idea of aliens digging for stuff that's several decades old and figuring out how to use it - to survive at first, and then later on to entertain themselves.

[Gollumpus]

how do we know that those buildings haven't already been stripped of salvageable materials? the nuclear towers were relatively recent and removing nuclear material is not a simple or safe matter, but the other buildings didn't look as if they were pristine in any sense of the word.

A valid question. What comes to my mind on that point is:

1.) St. Louis is/was a pretty big place.

2.) Just how much time have they really had to get organized since the "war/terra-forming event gone crazy" period of time ended? It's only been 30+ years since the arrival. Lose 7(?) years for the war. Add to that that nobody might have felt safe for the first few years after folding over of old St. Louis to venture into the tunnels, and that doesn't leave a lot of time.

3.) How many people (humans & alien) were killed in the previous decades? I'd be surprised if there was supposed to be more than a few thousands in the area of Defiance. There just doesn't seem to be a whole lot of folks running around in and around Defiance.


With the lack of time and population and the size of the space, I'm just a bit doubtful that there would have been extensive scavenging/recycling of materials going on. I would think that there could have been limited expeditions to recover easily accessible things, but that there is likely a huge amount of useful stuff still down there.

And I suspect that if the crust of the Earth got folded over our houses then they likely wouldn't any longer look all that pristine...

Po-tech (poor tech, or old Earth tech) is mostly considered useless. Vo-tech (Votan tech) is much better and wanted by all.

I imagine most Votans and people born during/after the war would not be interested in a chess board, mouldy cushions, pots and pans and DVD's of The Office.

However, a pristine set of B-5 cd's is an entirely different matter...

There does seem to be some market for some old human tech (eg. the former mayor Nicky). What about the number of vehicles that are out there? Are they all running on Votan tech, or is there a market for salvaged vehicle parts?

Not sure how you got to talking about tech as I was pretty specific in my mentioning of "raw" materials. True, Votan tech > than human tech. Does this mean that Votans or humans no longer need materials like copper, iron or aluminum? Even if they do not need it in its current form, melting it down for re-use is still probably easier than mining new sources.

He mines Gulanite, a powerful mineral and that glowing blue stuff on the walls of the mine and the bomb. I haven't updated some pages on the wiki yet with more recent info.

Ah, cool. I recall seeing that somewhere now that you mention it. Aside for being used in explosives, for what else can it be used?

regards,
G.

[Sp!der]

I wasn't in the mood yesterday, to much going on in RL, I have to watch this episode again.

[escyos]

However, a pristine set of B-5 cd's is an entirely different matter...

There does seem to be some market for some old human tech (eg. the former mayor Nicky). What about the number of vehicles that are out there? Are they all running on Votan tech, or is there a market for salvaged vehicle parts?

Not sure how you got to talking about tech as I was pretty specific in my mentioning of "raw" materials. True, Votan tech > than human tech. Does this mean that Votans or humans no longer need materials like copper, iron or aluminum? Even if they do not need it in its current form, melting it down for re-use is still probably easier than mining new sources.

Ah, cool. I recall seeing that somewhere now that you mention it. Aside for being used in explosives, for what else can it be used?

Maybe, but I wager that they have no problems getting things like copper, iron etc and wouldn't have to scrounge around underground for stuff. Although there are people who are interested in the old Earth stuff like the McCawleys - they had a record player, the battleship game etc.

Gulanite is the primary power source for all arktech. Also hellbugs eat gulanite and cocoon themselves, growing into larger hellbug variants, they then poop and you can refine the poop to make petrohol.