How Fast Is Hyperspace? Daedalus vs. Wormhole Drive travel.

[The Lady Blue]

Okay, so, I'm asking this because on the Extinction thread it mentions the Triangulus galaxy and how in a 6th season/movie the SGA team would have jumped their using the wormhole drive before it gave out. When I looked it up, it said that the Triangulus Galaxy is about 3 million light years away from our galaxy, Milky Way.

That led me to a question. How fast is hyperspace? I ask because Caldwell was able to reach Atlantis in Pegasus in 2 weeks time using the Daedalus to travel by way of hyperspace. I never thought about how far of a trip that was until now. On Voyager (yeah, I know, different franchise), they were only seventy thousand light years away and I think that was supposed to be a lifetime journey traveling at a steady warp speed, making stops when necessary. Seventy thousand and more than three million is a big difference. Star Trek has its formulas, and so warp speeds have been more or less defined, but I wonder about hyperspace in Stargate.

I always figured that hyperspace was Stargate's version of warp and that they were about the same. If you can trust Wikipedia as a source, it says this about warp:

Warp drive is one of the fundamental features of the Star Trek storyline; in the first pilot episode of Star Trek: The Original Series, "The Cage", it is referred to as a "hyperdrive"/"time warp" drive combination, and it is stated that the "time barrier" has been broken, allowing a group of stranded interstellar travelers to return to Earth far sooner than would have otherwise been possible ...

On speeds:

According to the Star Trek episode writer's guide for The Original Series, warp factors are converted to multiples of c with the cubic function v = w3c, where w is the warp factor, v is the velocity, and c is the speed of light. Accordingly, "warp 1" is equivalent to the speed of light, "warp 2" is 8 times the speed of light, "warp 3" is 27 times the speed of light, etc.

And I think that warp 10 is as fast as you can go and it takes you anywhere in an instant (transwarp, I think it's called). Okay, so what about Stargate's hyperspace travel? Again, if wikipedia can be a source, it says this:

Hyperspace is a method of traveling sometimes used in science fiction. It is typically described as an alternative region of space co-existing with our own universe which may be entered using an energy field or other device. Travel in hyperspace is frequently depicted as faster-than-light travel in normal space.

If that's not how it's depicted in Stargate, then how is it depicted? It can't be faster than warp 10, and I do think I read somewhere where someone described it as traveling through folded space to get somewhere faster, but then how does that work? That sounds more like wormhole travel which is why I'm guessing the wormhole drive is faster than the daedalus in hyperspace. I can't remember the finer points of Eatg, but how many jumps did it take to get to Earth? I guess I'm just wondering if it's taking them a series of jumps to get to the Triangulus galaxy and that's three million light years away with still a ways to go to get to Pegasus, what kinds of distances are they covering with each jump and how fast is hyperspace to travel more than three million light years in 2 weeks? It just doesn't sound like that's possible if I compare it to warp speeds, and again, warp 10 is getting wherever you want to go in an instant.

I don't know, maybe Voyager is the problem. I just never had to think about this until the synopsis of the never-to-be-seen Extinction movie/season six premiere episodes came out a couple of days ago.

Any ideas? Am I making any sense or am I over thinking this?

(and mods if this should need to be moved to the tech section, okay. I just wanted to ask it where I had the question. Sorry if it shouldn't be here.)

[Infinite-Possibilities]

Trying to compare two different franchises with two different sets of rules is probably just going confuse the issue. The Pegasus Galaxy is 3 million lightyears from the Milky Way. (I'm honestly not sure if the Triangulum Galaxy is even in the way of a trip there) and the Daedalus can reach it in 3 weeks usually. Wormhole Drive is supposed to be instantaneous when it works. In fact now that I think about it, getting stranded in the Triangulum Galaxy because the Wormhole Drive gave out on the way seems to not fit with what Zelenka said about it in EatG. It was either it worked and instantly transported them to Earth or the the attempt would fail and city would be vaporized or something.

[The Lady Blue]

Trying to compare two different franchises with two different sets of rules is probably just going confuse the issue. The Pegasus Galaxy is 3 million lightyears from the Milky Way. (I'm honestly not sure if the Triangulum Galaxy is even in the way of a trip there) and the Daedalus can reach it in 3 weeks usually. Wormhole Drive is supposed to be instantaneous when it works. In fact now that I think about it, getting stranded in the Triangulum Galaxy because the Wormhole Drive gave out on the way seems to not fit with what Zelenka said about it in EatG. It was either it worked and instantly transported them to Earth or the the attempt would fail and city would be vaporized or something.

Thank you for responding. Okay, so it's a three week trip with the daedalus. So, that's a million light years in a week. That's roughly, 142,857 light years in a day, about 5,952 light years per hour, and about 99 light years per minute if I did the math right. That's one fast ship. But then, if Pegasus is only 3 million light years away, and the Triangulus galaxy is also about 3 million light years away, then Triangulus couldn't be on the way to Pegasus. It would have to be in another direction, and why would they go in another direction if their wormhole drive is on the fritz and they are trying to get home?

(Edit: Well, maybe they are right next to each other. The Triangulus galaxy is fifty thousand light years wide, so that small number wouldn't count when saying that Pegasus is 3 million light years away. So, I guess they have to travel through Triangulus using hyperspace to get to Pegasus? Still they would get to the outer edges of Pegasus in less than half a day, but your point about instant travel still stands I think. I tried looking up the how far away the The Pegasus Dwarf Irregular Galaxy (supposedly SGA Pegasus) is and I didn't see where it was in relation to the Triangulus galaxy, but I didn't try very hard. I'm a little tired right now. I will check later tomorrow, I think. )

I can't remember everything Zelenka said in Eatg, but they did seem to get to Earth/Milky Way pretty fast in one jump or one final jump when they needed to, so you've made a good point. Hmm.

[thekillman]

Interesting, interesting.
just read the movie description and i am glad that did not get made.

First off: Triangulum is 300 000, not 3 000 000 lightyears away.


The most accurate figure i could find is this:

A ZPM demonstrates that it can "supercharge" a Daedalus-class system, allowing it to make the journey from Earth to Atlantis in four days, rather than the usual twenty days.

Source

For 20 days, 3 million lightyears, the speeds are:

150 000 ly's per day
6250 ly's per hour
104 ly's per minute
1.7 ly's per second

For 4 days, 3 million lightyears, the speeds are:

750 000 ly's per day
31250 ly's per hour
521 ly's per minute
8.7 ly's per second


Or 5x as fast.


However this is not a solid figure: the Hammond required quite some time to cross just 21 lightyears to Icarus.

At these speeds, one crosses the Milky way (100 000 ly's across) in:

100 000 / 6250 = 16 hours for regular speeds or
100 000 /31250 = 3.2 hours for ZPM power


It's never been explained what it is, but Hyperspace is essentially a wormhole. However, in stead of using the regular 3 dimensions of space, it uses the 3 dimensions of space that Subspace apparently uses. This means that it's not bent by gravity like ours, so no fancy black holes required. Also, this wormhole has a meaningful length, so in stead of the typical "instant travel" of wormholes, you still have to move through them. lastly, more advanced hyperdrives create shorter wormholes resulting in faster travel times.

this wormhole is thus "hyperspace", a wormhole in Subspace.

[Infinite-Possibilities]

In his blog, JM said it was 300,000 Light years away. In real life the Triangulum Galaxy is 3 Million Light years away. In fact, three hundred thousand light years is pretty close in intergalactic terms. The Milky Way itself is a hundred thousand light years across I think, so if Triangulum were only 3 times that distance away it would be almost right next door (as far as other galaxies go).

It's also worth noting that it is established the Asgard hyperdrives used on the 304s come in two different types. The Daedalus had interstellar and intergalactic hyperdrives and they both are used for different things.

I didn't think it was said that hyperdrive is the same as the same wormholes as the stargates, (although I don't remember every episode where they talk about it in the shows). In fact I thought the whole idea of the Wormhole drive was that it was like using a wormhole to get the city somewhere, which is why is was essentially instantaneous travel.

[The Lady Blue]

So I looked up the Triangulum galaxy in relation to the Pegasus galaxy and I came across this little map:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Group.svg.png

It's a little confusing to look at at first, but if I am looking at it correctly, then you really don't need to visit the Triangulum galaxy on your way to Pegasus if you are heading to Pegasus in a straight line from Milky Way. It seems like you'd have to make a slight turn to change your trajectory some in order to get to Triangulum. Here's a map I found. I don't know if it's right, but maybe someone here knows:

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/1374/localgroup.png

Okay, so you see where Milky Way is, and PegDIG is our SGA Pegasus galaxy. M33 over in green on your left is the Triangulum galaxy. It doesn't seem like it's on the way to Pegasus. Going off of this map, they could get to Pegasus with the almost busted wormhole drive if they wanted instead of going to Triangulum for whatever reason, especially if they know they might be stranded there if they make a detour.

Interesting, interesting.
just read the movie description and i am glad that did not get made.

First off: Triangulum is 300 000, not 3 000 000 lightyears away.


The most accurate figure i could find is this:


Source

For 20 days, 3 million lightyears, the speeds are:

150 000 ly's per day
6250 ly's per hour
104 ly's per minute
1.7 ly's per second

For 4 days, 3 million lightyears, the speeds are:

750 000 ly's per day
31250 ly's per hour
521 ly's per minute
8.7 ly's per second


Or 5x as fast.


However this is not a solid figure: the Hammond required quite some time to cross just 21 lightyears to Icarus.

At these speeds, one crosses the Milky way (100 000 ly's across) in:

100 000 / 6250 = 16 hours for regular speeds or
100 000 /31250 = 3.2 hours for ZPM power


It's never been explained what it is, but Hyperspace is essentially a wormhole. However, in stead of using the regular 3 dimensions of space, it uses the 3 dimensions of space that Subspace apparently uses. This means that it's not bent by gravity like ours, so no fancy black holes required. Also, this wormhole has a meaningful length, so in stead of the typical "instant travel" of wormholes, you still have to move through them. lastly, more advanced hyperdrives create shorter wormholes resulting in faster travel times.

this wormhole is thus "hyperspace", a wormhole in Subspace.

Thanks. It's nice to know that the Daedalus can be supercharged. I didn't remember that. I'm not sure that hyperspace is a wormhole, but I aslo can't say for sure. I know that there's at least subspace, space, and hyperspace, and I thought wormholes were able to travel through space folding in on itself or something like that to make a long distance a short travel. I can't be sure, though.

In his blog, JM said it was 300,000 Light years away. In real life the Triangulum Galaxy is 3 Million Light years away. In fact, three hundred thousand light years is pretty close in intergalactic terms. The Milky Way itself is a hundred thousand light years across I think, so if Triangulum were only 3 times that distance away it would be almost right next door (as far as other galaxies go).

It's also worth noting that it is established the Asgard hyperdrives used on the 304s come in two different types. The Daedalus had interstellar and intergalactic hyperdrives and they both are used for different things.

I didn't think it was said that hyperdrive is the same as the same wormholes as the stargates, (although I don't remember every episode where they talk about it in the shows). In fact I thought the whole idea of the Wormhole drive was that it was like using a wormhole to get the city somewhere, which is why is was essentially instantaneous travel.

That's what I was thinking, but it would be nice to see if there's any definitive proof. But then, I don't know if Stargate has ever taken the science part of sci-fi as seriously as maybe some other franchises, so I don't know. Still, it would be nice if there were something consistent and definite to go off of.