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  1. #1
    Site Admin GateWorld's Avatar
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    Post Cold War (3309/709)

    Visit the Episode GuideDOCTOR WHO - SERIES 33
    COLD WAR
    EPISODE NUMBER - 3309 (709)
    The Doctor and Clara arrive on a damaged Russian submarine and find a Martian Ice Warrior, who has just been thawed out and is threatening to seize control of the ship's nuclear arsenal.

    VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >>
    Last edited by Darren; April 18th, 2013 at 08:17 PM.

  2. #2
    Molly Hooper Sealurk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cold War (3309/709)

    Was it just me, or was that the best episode we've yet seen in Series 7? Mark Gatiss, I salute you!

    Loved it. Absolutely loved it. Loved that we had a scary monster... who wasn't really evil (but wasn't quite misunderstood either). Loved that the TARDIS has her HADS back - even if the Doctor does decide to un-tinker that particular system. Loved the revelation of the 'Shell Suit' and the design of the Ice Warrior. Loved that we had Liam Cunningham and David Warner (and loved his desperate plea to know the future... of his favourite band) and generally cracking acting all round. Loved the arrival and design of the Martian ship at the end (I did briefly wonder if the TARDIS was somehow responsible for that for a moment).

    Clara, however, is beginning to grate a little. I can't quite put my finger on why though.

    Also, the Doctor's sonic went a different colour at the end... did we just see the 'Red Settings' mentioned in Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead, or was it purely cosmetic?
    And now it's time for one last bow, like all your other selves. Eleven's hour is over now... the clock is striking Twelve's.

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Cold War (3309/709)

    Indeed! Although after last week it couldn't get much worse

    Keeping the monster hidden was the best decision they could have made.. Classic monster movie style ..If only it had been on later so it could have been a bit darker.. Doctor Who is at it's best when it's dark.. not full of singing and forced sentimentality..

    But there does seem to be a bit of a theme developing.. Snowmen at Christmas, The Great Intelligence (The Yeti serve <).. Cold War and Ice Warriors..

    *waits for The Yeti to appear*

    I'm not sure about Clara.. she doesn't quite fit in.. it might be because she's new and the writers haven't figured out what to do with her.. or because we know so little about who she really is and that lack of information makes her seem two dimensional and separate from everything else..

  4. #4
    General Blencathra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cold War (3309/709)

    That was a lot of fun. Really enjoyed it. Liam Cunningham and David Warner were absolutely excellent. I thought it was inspired to get the Ice Warrior out of his "shell suit". The more fleet and fleeting monster was far more scary than the stomping original, which I imagine would have been very difficult to make frightening in the tight confines of a submarine. BTW having the action on a submarine was a great idea. Very tense.

    Having the HADS take the TARDIS away was very Second Doctor and I liked that a lot.

    Mark Gatiss is about the same age as I am and I wonder if Vienna and Hungry Like the Wolf were his favourite songs - there were certainly mine.

    As for Clara, I have had some more ideas about her that I'll put on my Clara's identity thread but I need to find some screencaps first.

    Edot - Just thought I'd say that I think that was Mark Gatiss' best episode.
    Last edited by Blencathra; April 13th, 2013 at 12:25 PM.

  5. #5
    Major General BruTak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cold War (3309/709)

    I would've enjoyed it a lot more if I didn't already know a fair bit about submarines.

    The sub interiors were far too spacious. The whole point of a sub it to cram as much as you can into a small space. An average sized person would barely be able to stand fully upright.

    Where were the watertight hatches?
    Where were all the crew? The closest match I can find is a Delta II-class boat, which had a crew compliment of 130.

    I doubt the captain and first officer (or was he the political officer? It was never made clear) would be wearing their headgear while on duty.
    And later, he really wouldn't have been talking to his commanding officer while standing with his hands in his pockets.
    There wouldn't have been CCTV cameras on a Soviet sub.

    The captain referring to "the bridge" was wrong. The bridge of a sub is that little bit at the top of the sail where they were all standing at the end. Where the actual business of steering the boat, where the periscope etc. is, is called the control room - or "conn" for short.

    Long before you and I were born, others beat these benches with their empty cups,
    To the night and its stars, to the here and now with who we are.

    Another sunrise with my sad captains, with who I choose to lose my mind,
    And if it's all we only pass this way but once, what a perfect waste of time.

  6. #6
    Major General BruTak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cold War (3309/709)

    I would've enjoyed it a lot more if I didn't already know a fair bit about submarines.

    The sub interiors were far too spacious. The whole point of a sub it to cram as much as you can into a small space. An average sized person would barely be able to stand fully upright.

    Where were the watertight hatches?
    Where were all the crew? The closest match I can find is a Delta II-class boat, which had a crew compliment of 130.

    I doubt the captain and first officer (or was he the political officer? It was never made clear) would be wearing their headgear while on duty.
    And later, he really wouldn't have been talking to his commanding officer while standing with his hands in his pockets.
    There wouldn't have been CCTV cameras on a Soviet sub.

    The captain referring to "the bridge" was wrong. The bridge of a sub is that little bit at the top of the sail where they were all standing at the end. Where the actual business of steering the boat, where the periscope etc. is, is called the control room - or "conn" for short.

    Long before you and I were born, others beat these benches with their empty cups,
    To the night and its stars, to the here and now with who we are.

    Another sunrise with my sad captains, with who I choose to lose my mind,
    And if it's all we only pass this way but once, what a perfect waste of time.

  7. #7
    General Blencathra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cold War (3309/709)

    With regard to the spacious sub set, in the latest DWM Mark Gatiss said

    We had to slightly "Hollywoodise" the design of the sub, or certainly enlarge it, because they're unbelievably cramped and small. Although that's great for claustrophobia, you have to be able to get around, and the seven foot Ice Warrior had to be able to walk about without banging his head.
    So that's the reason for that bit. With regard to the rest, sound like they should have done a bit more research. But to be honest it didn't bother me particularly. It depends on your level of interest I guess.

  8. #8
    Lieutenant Colonel Matt G's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cold War (3309/709)

    Well, well well...

    1. I wear dodgy 80s shades...dodgy 80s shades are cool...

    2. That other guy definitely sounded like the political officer.

    3. Plenty of familiar faces here...need another look at the cast list.

    4. Ice Warrior! Might sign up to my Horde of Terror.

    5. So Clara singing Duran Duran switches off nuclear weapons?

    6. Old Soviet professor that likes contempory Western music?

    Generally the best up of the year so far though!

  9. #9
    Colonel Flyboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cold War (3309/709)

    Now THIS is Doctor Who!

    Last week's ep may have been visually stunning, but THIS was Doctor Who. UFO, isolated base, monster on the loose - brilliant! Sure the sub may have been a bit off, but for anyone who knows the history of the Cold War, 1983 and Exercise ABLE ARCHER III makes the whole thing a touch more interesting when you understand JUST how close the world was to Armageddon right then, regardless off Ice Warrior involvement...


    "Five Rounds Rapid"




  10. #10
    Molly Hooper Sealurk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cold War (3309/709)

    The technical submarine aspects of the episode were admittedly a bit under researched or hand waved (the reasons why are spoilered for length and excessive submarine nerdiness):

    Spoiler:
    The most glaring error is that military submarines maintain an internal pressure of one atmosphere, i.e. sea level pressure, which is why they have such strong pressure hulls. That means that at great depths if you have a hull breach you don't get atmospheric looking drips and curtains of water like we had in this episode, you get high pressure jets or beams of water that can cut through metal - and crew - with ease. This is why subs have a crush depth - the depth at which the pressure hull just can't resist the pressure of the sea and implodes.

    Alternatively, some underwater habitats and long term workplaces, i.e. for technical divers working on oil wells or similar, pressurise the interior to match the external water pressure so if the hull (which can generally be a lot thinner because the pressure is equal on both sides) breaches you don't get a high pressure jet, you get a straightforward leak just as we see here or in films like The Abyss or Sphere... except then normal air mixture becomes a problem because humans aren't built to live in high pressures, so you end up needing to breathe something like heliox and you spend months with a squeaky voice and you need to spend considerable time later slowly decompressing before you can go back to normal living on the surface.


    However, I still rate this as pretty much the best episode of Series 7 so far - and I'm including both halves. I was thoroughly entertained and started watching it again almost as soon as it finished.
    Last edited by Sealurk; April 13th, 2013 at 01:36 PM.
    And now it's time for one last bow, like all your other selves. Eleven's hour is over now... the clock is striking Twelve's.

    Stargate Ragnarok | FF.net | AO3 | Lakeside | My Fallout 3 Mods | Poppy Appeal | Help For Heroes | Combat Stress


  11. #11
    Colonel Teddybrown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cold War (3309/709)

    Well that was enjoyable, definately the best of DWs Series 7 return.
    Glad to see theyve left the door open for the Ice Warriors to return as they seem interesting creatures.
    I didnt mind the sub technical areas as I dont really know much about subs...

    Next weeks episode looks good too!

  12. #12
    Brigadier General stargatefan234's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cold War (3309/709)

    I thought David Warner was a bit out of place in this, im noy sure why but he just seemed to be too talkative with Clara... maybe it has relevance... Basically I just want Warner to come back and be evil

    Maybe that's it, I think I've only ever seen him play evil people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sealurk View Post
    Also, the Doctor's sonic went a different colour at the end... did we just see the 'Red Settings' mentioned in Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead, or was it purely cosmetic?
    Definite Red Setting , well that or The Doctor had to have a red button to push!


    People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint... it happens to kinda look like the name 'Jeremy Bearimy' in cursive English.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Cold War (3309/709)

    Funny how much taste and oppinions can differ. I enjoyed last weeks episode which most people here didn'd but couldn't make much of this one. Thou I admit, this one was more... can't find the words.... well, "technicly" better, meening, rounder in it's self. But somehow it didn't hook me. It might have been the aesthetics of a submarien and the disigne of the monster. I prefere warm colours etc. Thogh the coldnes verry well fitted with the topic. Than I had some trouble with the streaming, so I had had to deal with a lot of interaptions (every few seconds in the end), which was rather anoying. It had some good moment though I liked the peacefull ending and Claras part in it. The Doctor did't do much here realy. But 40 minuts are definetly too short to spin of a good story. You've got no time to evolve anything.

    As for the red lights: I noticed, but did't think of the library referrence. Whatever this story arche turns out to bee, I'm pretty sure it will have somthing to do with the library.. in which way? well, we'll see. (Sorry for my bad english. it's late and somehow I cant find the right words today. Hope, you get what I'm trying to say)
    Nobody asked me, if I wanted to live. So don't anyone tell me how I shoul lead my life.

  14. #14
    Major General Cold Fuzz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cold War (3309/709)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sealurk View Post
    Was it just me, or was that the best episode we've yet seen in Series 7? Mark Gatiss, I salute you!
    I always look forward to Mark Gatiss' scripts. I share your opinion that this is the best of Series 7 thus far. This and A Town Called Mercy (primarily because of the Kahler and Kahler-Jex in particular) have been my favorites. Cold War did not disappoint.

    Loved it. Absolutely loved it. Loved that we had a scary monster... who wasn't really evil (but wasn't quite misunderstood either). Loved that the TARDIS has her HADS back - even if the Doctor does decide to un-tinker that particular system. Loved the revelation of the 'Shell Suit' and the design of the Ice Warrior. Loved that we had Liam Cunningham and David Warner (and loved his desperate plea to know the future... of his favourite band) and generally cracking acting all round. Loved the arrival and design of the Martian ship at the end (I did briefly wonder if the TARDIS was somehow responsible for that for a moment).
    100% agreement with all this. Loved Liam Cunningham & David Warner in particular. Having seen Cunningham's work on Game of Thrones, I loved that he brought the same intense energy to this performance. David Warner and "Hungry Like the Wolf" made my night.

    Clara, however, is beginning to grate a little. I can't quite put my finger on why though.
    Something about her is... off. I also can't quite put my finger on it. I think we're either not quite used to her chemistry with the Doctor in comparison with the Ponds or something is deliberately off about her.

    Also, the Doctor's sonic went a different colour at the end... did we just see the 'Red Settings' mentioned in Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead, or was it purely cosmetic?
    I immediately thought of the Red Settings in Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyboy View Post
    Now THIS is Doctor Who!

    Last week's ep may have been visually stunning, but THIS was Doctor Who. UFO, isolated base, monster on the loose - brilliant! Sure the sub may have been a bit off, but for anyone who knows the history of the Cold War, 1983 and Exercise ABLE ARCHER III makes the whole thing a touch more interesting when you understand JUST how close the world was to Armageddon right then, regardless off Ice Warrior involvement...
    This episode made me feel very reflective about the Cold War in general, especially considering what's going on with North Korea at the moment, but that's another topic altogether. The Hunt for Red October was one of my favorite books & movies when I was much younger and I'm tickled that this episode evoked that memory.

    Honestly, I sometimes wonder whether younger people in this time period realize just how close we stood on the brink of nuclear oblivion back in the 80s, as you said—or even the Cuban Missile Crisis. I remember when the Eastern Bloc countries started changing, especially with the Wall coming down in East Germany. I honestly believed the Wall wouldn't come down in my lifetime. It was a monumental moment in history... and the sight of it coming down gave me chills. Major kudos to Mark Gatiss for capturing the gravitas of the situation in this episode.
    Last edited by Cold Fuzz; April 13th, 2013 at 08:50 PM.


  15. #15

    Default Re: Cold War (3309/709)

    I see a couple people dislike formula when it comes to writing fiction, but there is pretty much ONE formula everyone uses to write good fiction, as I said in the thread for last week's story Rings...

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Glow View Post
    The basic formula for writing good fiction is to create interesting, compelling characters and torture them for 300 pages. How they react tells you something about them and makes it enjoyable. Maybe they rise, maybe they fall.

    The Rings of Akhaten completely violates this principle.

    1. The new characters created for this story are neither interesting nor compelling. The only character from this story with much of any english lines at all is the little girl, and she was not made compelling by them, imo. The antagonist was a blob with no speaking lines.

    2. I didn't feel that a good job was done of conveying the threat to the audience.

    As a result, you wound up a story filled with forgettable characters facing a boring threat.

    The story didn't work.
    Let's apply this formula to Cold War. This story followed the formula to a T.

    1. Several interesting characters were created in this story. Scaldak, the scientist (professor Grisenko), and submarine captain Zhukov were new and interesting characters.

    2. These characters were placed in pressure situations, and how they reacted to these situations drove the plot. The story then simply wrote itself as we got to see if they would rise or fall.

    Let's look at some of the pressure situations.

    1. First encounter between Scalak and the crew. How will it be handled? Zhukov seemed ready to negotiate. Scaldak seemed ready to negotiate. Then it all goes wrong when the crewman shock Scaldak.

    2. This naturally set up pressure situation #2. Now Scaldak is chained. He believes his daughter and entire race is dead. How will he react? We are given a little backstory that Ice Warriors condemn entire races for one assault. Will Scaldak "fall" and follow through? Or will he "rise" and look beyond his rather brutal moral code?

    3. Pressure situation #3. Clara volunteers to visit Scaldak. How will she react? Will she "rise" by bravely keeping her composure and wits and do a good job? Or will she "fall" and lose her cool?

    4. Pressure situation #4. Scaldak is LOOSE! Will the crew members "rise" and keep their wits? Or "fall" and lose their cool? This was used especially to get to know professor Grisenko. We learned he will rise. He kept his cool, and tried to help Clara stay cool with some humor.

    5. But the main pressure situation was #2, where we learn what Scaldak is made of. He shows mercy. And the CORE of the entire episode was putting the greatest hero of the ice Warriors in a torture chamber. He lost his daughter, his race, his pride, his warrior code was assaulted. But when he still hesitates to fire the nuke. And when the rescue comes, he shows mercy.

    Scaldak rose.

    This episode perfectly followed the formula of successful fiction, and unsurprisingly, it was the BEST story of the season. 10/10.

  16. #16
    Captain cosmichobo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cold War (3309/709)

    When the TARDIS disappeared, I certainly wondered if it was the HADS, but then thought it must have been some kind of remote, activated accidentally by the Russian officer via the sonic... When 11 was bashful at the end, explaining, I knew it was going to be it... A great little nod to the 2nd Doctor's era, in a story featuring the 2nd Doctor's probably 2nd best known enemy.

    I was a bit worried when the Ice Warrior escaped his suit... especially then seeing very "Alien/s/3" type over-head attacks... The scene where they talked to him I think probably was a bit too much CGI for me, but it wasn't enough to bring the episode down - as compared to last week's very disconnected CGI planetMonster...

    My 5 year old's attention was probably only with the story 50% of the time... Of course, he has no knowledge of the Cold War, and whilst I debated changing this fact, I ultimately decided he doesn't need to know - now - how close we came... (And indeed, "we" were on the brink 20 years before that with the Cuban Missile Crisis...)

    David Warner's character... Very suspicious IMO... I was expecting more - maybe something directly leading into the next episode - ie him to kidnap Clara at the end or something... And at the end - I thought the missing TARDIS may be a lead into the next episode... But no...

    All in all, yes, agree, it has to be one of the best of S7.
    as seen on YouTube - thecosmichobo
    "How Doomsday Should Have Ended!" • "Bigger on the Inside?" • "The Doctor Falls - With Hartnell!"
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  17. #17
    Caffeinated Teacher Nolamom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cold War (3309/709)

    I love David Warner, but I love him more evil than as a kindly old professor. Even so, great job.

  18. #18
    Captain min min light's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cold War (3309/709)

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenee View Post
    Funny how much taste and oppinions can differ. I enjoyed last weeks episode which most people here didn'd but couldn't make much of this one.
    I know, I wasn't so crazy about either of them but at least last week's was visually interesting. I was bored for long stretches of time in this one, and Clara is still too nebulous for me to care about her. And I'm not familiar with Classic Who, so there's no thrill of seeing the old enemies.

    I envy everyone who's loving this season.

  19. #19
    Captain cosmichobo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cold War (3309/709)

    Quote Originally Posted by min min light View Post
    I envy everyone who's loving this season.
    I think I heard of that person...
    as seen on YouTube - thecosmichobo
    "How Doomsday Should Have Ended!" • "Bigger on the Inside?" • "The Doctor Falls - With Hartnell!"
    "The War Games - In 10 Minutes" • "Announcement of Jon Pertwee's death" •
    and lots more!

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Cold War (3309/709)

    Medium to good, I suppose. I was watching in a hotel room, delaying going down to dinner, so was weirdly under pressure already. The overall story was pretty routine, but reasonable for Doctor Who. Nice touch in concept to remove the Warrior from his armour but not sure about the implementation: Scaldak's face just didn't seem right (not sure it would physically fit the proportions of the helmet, for a start). As for the armour, if he couldn't escape the chains whilst in the suit, how could it escape when empty? And, what no-one's mentioned, wasn't it largely solved by another intense Doctor speech?

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