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  1. #41
    General Blencathra's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Rings of Akhaten (3308/708)

    Quote Originally Posted by BruTak View Post
    And for the second week in a row, he doesn't close the TARDIS doors behind him.

    What's that all about?
    Perhaps it so someone can have sneaked aboard & we get to see them in Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: The Rings of Akhaten (3308/708)

    Quote Originally Posted by BruTak View Post
    And for the second week in a row, he doesn't close the TARDIS doors behind him.

    What's that all about?
    Bad detail work!? Just like the Tardis translation circuit should have prevented the whole dog barking scene.
    That and perhaps the child singer made an error due to horribly repetivie lyrics because the invented song actually had no meaning.
    "Trust me. I'm a psychopath." Jekyll


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  3. #43
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    Default Re: The Rings of Akhaten (3308/708)

    Quote Originally Posted by MasySyma View Post
    Bad detail work!? Just like the Tardis translation circuit should have prevented the whole dog barking scene
    Ho cho bo cho do ho bo do. Poppa doppa poppa dop. Cho ho.

    ["It's also an argument that applies to anything spoken by the Juddoon. So there! No, really!"]

  4. #44
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    Default Re: The Rings of Akhaten (3308/708)

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Glow View Post
    The basic formula for writing good fiction is to create interesting, compelling characters and torture them for 300 pages. How they react tells you something about them and makes it enjoyable. Maybe they rise, maybe they fall.

    The Rings of Akhaten completely violates this principle.

    1. The new characters created for this story are neither interesting nor compelling. The only character from this story with much of any english lines at all is the little girl, and she was not made compelling by them, imo. The antagonist was a blob with no speaking lines.

    2. I didn't feel that a good job was done of conveying the threat to the audience.

    As a result, you wound up a story filled with forgettable characters facing a boring threat.

    The story didn't work.
    Speaking as a writer, I rather dislike formula.
    Speeking as a student of literatue, I absolutly agree withyou
    Nobody asked me, if I wanted to live. So don't anyone tell me how I shoul lead my life.

  5. #45
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    Default Re: The Rings of Akhaten (3308/708)

    Quote Originally Posted by stargatefan234 View Post
    repeatedly or just last episode?
    Pretty sure the Ninth and Tenth Doctors alluded to the same thing. It's already been set up. It gives them a reason not to have to come with a physical reason as to why the Doctor doesn't use the TARDIS for everything as if he did, there'd be no struggle or anything.
    I write articles/features/reviews for I'm With Geek.com now. Check out our stuff if you get a minute!


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  6. #46
    Captain MasySyma's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Rings of Akhaten (3308/708)

    Quote Originally Posted by Quizziard View Post
    Ho cho bo cho do ho bo do. Poppa doppa poppa dop. Cho ho.

    ["It's also an argument that applies to anything spoken by the Juddoon. So there! No, really!"]
    Yep, and it was sloppy writing there too.
    "Trust me. I'm a psychopath." Jekyll


    "And I thought the end of the world couldn't get any worse" Ianto-Torchwood

  7. #47
    Caffeinated Teacher Nolamom's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Rings of Akhaten (3308/708)

    Quote Originally Posted by MasySyma View Post
    That and perhaps the child singer made an error due to horribly repetivie lyrics because the invented song actually had no meaning.
    I got more of the impression that the "break" was caused by the man who was already inside the pyramid. Seems like I heard a change in his notes first. Perhaps I'm misremembering?

  8. #48
    Captain MasySyma's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Rings of Akhaten (3308/708)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nolamom View Post
    I got more of the impression that the "break" was caused by the man who was already inside the pyramid. Seems like I heard a change in his notes first. Perhaps I'm misremembering?
    I thought that also at first. I watched the episode again, and she keeps claiming she made the error, so perhaps something got clipped in edits or the poor girl was being set up to be eaten according to tradition, which is why this ending reminds me of Satellite 5. Their world is doomed as soon as the Doctor leaves.

    He tore out their religion, which for them, was functioning as a source of unity. War will engulf the seven worlds as soon as one of them realizes no "grandfather" keeps them constrained.
    "Trust me. I'm a psychopath." Jekyll


    "And I thought the end of the world couldn't get any worse" Ianto-Torchwood

  9. #49
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    Default Re: The Rings of Akhaten (3308/708)

    I thought that also at first. I watched the episode again, and she keeps claiming she made the error, so perhaps something got clipped in edits or the poor girl was being set up to be eaten according to tradition, which is why this ending reminds me of Satellite 5. Their world is doomed as soon as the Doctor leaves.

    He tore out their religion, which for them, was functioning as a source of unity. War will engulf the seven worlds as soon as one of them realizes no "grandfather" keeps them constrained.
    That's the problem with beeing someone who always tries saving the world (especialy beeing a timetraveler) you never quite know, if you're realy helping or making things worse. Think of Pompeii, for example.
    Nobody asked me, if I wanted to live. So don't anyone tell me how I shoul lead my life.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: The Rings of Akhaten (3308/708)

    Quote Originally Posted by MasySyma View Post
    But formula is the basis of most of the Moffat driven series. His episodes were amazing during the RTD era because he always avoided RTD's patterns, but now, he has embraced patterns, cliches, and a lack of complexity. It is only a matter of time until glowly Doctor returns.
    As pointed out, Moffatt hasn't written this episode. What he does do however is over see the overall story arc of each season which so far has been top notch every time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenee View Post
    Speeking as a student of literatue, I absolutly agree withyou
    Thank you.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

  11. #51
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    Default Re: The Rings of Akhaten (3308/708)

    Quote Originally Posted by stargatefan234 View Post
    The TARDIS doesnt like Clara, nice touch
    Maybe that is/was due to one of Clara's incarnations as a Dalek in a previous eppy?


    Quote Originally Posted by Blencathra View Post
    I noticed. And that Clara's parent's are called Ellie and Dave. Such a lot of leaf, tree and forest references. BTW Ella was the name of Donna's daughter in The Library (Forest of the Dead) and of course Other Dave and Proper Dave (who turned out the lights!) ended up downloaded into the Library as well.

    Edit - Incidentally I don't actually believe that Proper Dave & Ellie are the real parents of Clara. Just that certain things are bleeding through to this world from The Library, names being one of them.
    Interesting theory -- references going back to the "Forest in the Library."
    ..anything jogging the Doctor's memory yet, such as his examination of the leaf (to a forest tree)..??

    What complicates these stories is that, apparently, Clara doesn't remember existing in or as her other selves, but yet has the same manifestations of "Clara/Oswin" each time.

    Ohhhh, and Oswin -- the name -- someone elsewhere (on the internet) indirectly pointed out that maybe OSwin is a code word/name for Operating Systems-WIN. More clues to being an already downloaded creature? Even as a Dalek, Oswin's memories remained intact or perhaps *downloaded* somehow into the thing that housed her mind/soul -- otherwise she was also known as "soufflé girl" in two eppies, so far that I know of.

    There's a rumor running around that in the season finale
    Spoiler:
    River will be in the eppy in some way. There was some speculation about River and Clara having a bit of a clashy encounter. But if River is Clara, considering all of these other refs, it makes better sense that Clara is a manifestation of River reaching out to the Doctor -- post Library episodes.

    So, does River Song like making soufflés, as well, or was that just some offbeat idea to throw DW viewers off track..?



    ooooooh.. is the name *SONG* in River's name (River Song -- aka, also known as *Melody* Pond) also another clue, if there was a special song in this particular "The Rings of Akhaten" (3308/708) eppy?
    hmmm, the intrigue continues..

    D____! gotta wait til the DVD comes out to see all of this. ugh! Can imagine the behind-the-scenes commentaries to all of these things, too!

  12. #52
    Major General aretood2's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Rings of Akhaten (3308/708)

    Quote Originally Posted by MasySyma View Post
    I thought that also at first. I watched the episode again, and she keeps claiming she made the error, so perhaps something got clipped in edits or the poor girl was being set up to be eaten according to tradition, which is why this ending reminds me of Satellite 5. Their world is doomed as soon as the Doctor leaves.

    He tore out their religion, which for them, was functioning as a source of unity. War will engulf the seven worlds as soon as one of them realizes no "grandfather" keeps them constrained.
    He also destroyed the basis of their currency, destabilized the gravitational center of their system's orbit, and gutted their culture. There's now a huge vacuum left behind with countless souls left confused.

    Then there's his annoying speech of how awesome he is and how he has secrets and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. That's one thing I don't like about 11. The speech was...well...over the top. I guess it doesn't help that I am not a big fan of "I've seen things you possibly can't imagine" cliche when it's just thrown around but not shown in some manner. Off screen knowledge like that is just a "Lookie here! This is how awesome and so grand the main character is, that we can't possibly properly portray his awesomeness because we have made it seem so huge that it would take technologies we don't have, vocabulary that doesn't exist, and the part of the light spectrum we can't see to properly show you." So no, I didn't even get a lumpy throat at his speech...just annoyance.

    I mean, goodness gracious, there is such a thing as overdoing something.

    Other than those things, It was a pretty nice episode. We got to see more of Clara's past which was done in a rather good fashion. The interaction between Clara, the Doctor, and the aliens worked well for me. The story was average, and that's not a bad thing. There needs to be plenty of average episodes to prop up the big ones.

    Spoiler:
    It will ruin it for me if Clara is in any way River.


    I found the reference to Susan very...interesting.

  13. #53
    General Blencathra's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Rings of Akhaten (3308/708)

    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    He also destroyed the basis of their currency, destabilized the gravitational center of their system's orbit, and gutted their culture. There's now a huge vacuum left behind with countless souls left confused.
    To be fair, this isn't the first time. He has previous on doing this sort of thing. I suppose one question is whether it eventually comes back to bite him.

    SGalisa - I like your thinking.

  14. #54
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    Default Re: The Rings of Akhaten (3308/708)

    To be fair, this isn't the first time. He has previous on doing this sort of thing. I suppose one question is whether it eventually comes back to bite him.
    Could be. Like someone else here has pointed out, we had something similar with sattelite five, though this seems even bigger, if you think of it. Actuly I do hope, it will. That is one think I like about the doctor: He his the bluddy hero, allright, but than he's not perfect/almighty (call it what you like) He DOES make mistakes, he DOES make worng desicions and sometimes he needs to be told that. And he tries to lern from it. This what makes him... well, I'd say human, except he's not.
    Nobody asked me, if I wanted to live. So don't anyone tell me how I shoul lead my life.

  15. #55
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    Default Re: The Rings of Akhaten (3308/708)

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenee View Post
    Could be. Like someone else here has pointed out, we had something similar with sattelite five, though this seems even bigger, if you think of it. Actually I do hope, it will. That is one think I like about the doctor: He his the bluddy hero, allright, but than he's not perfect/almighty (call it what you like) He DOES make mistakes, he DOES make wrong desicions and sometimes he needs to be told that. And he tries to lern from it. This what makes him... well, I'd say human, except he's not.
    I think it's more what makes him a Timelord and why he learns so much from humans.

    But the Doctor will never stand for Dictators or Despots ruling over others with fear. The thing he values more than anything else is freedom, so while he is aware that his actions will create consequences and in many ways he is still sad about that, he knows also that at least those who once lived in fear may now have a chance for a better life.

    Most of all the Doctor has faith in humanity and the more friendly races he encounters, probably because in his view, if they haven't completely become genocidal war mongers like the Daleks then there is still hope for them.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

  16. #56
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    Default Re: The Rings of Akhaten (3308/708)

    Quote Originally Posted by P-90_177 View Post
    I think it's more what makes him a Timelord and why he learns so much from humans.

    But the Doctor will never stand for Dictators or Despots ruling over others with fear. The thing he values more than anything else is freedom, so while he is aware that his actions will create consequences and in many ways he is still sad about that, he knows also that at least those who once lived in fear may now have a chance for a better life.

    Most of all the Doctor has faith in humanity and the more friendly races he encounters, probably because in his view, if they haven't completely become genocidal war mongers like the Daleks then there is still hope for them.
    The only problem is that he did leave Hitler in a closet so he could kill millions...that's what should be bothering him. Not nonsensical secrets. How does he deal with picking who and where and when to interfere with? Who lives and who dies? Who to save? There's enough dictators and despots in Earth's history, throw in the galaxy, the galaxy cluster, the supercluster...and you have an infinitum of dictators. So what makes him pick to ignore one and not ignore the other? If he's seen the end of time and the beginning of the universe and knows magical secrets, I hardly doubt that it would be beyond his capability to fight each and every dictator.

    That, in my opinion, would be a lot more logical source of the tears he had in this episode.

  17. #57
    Lieutenant Colonel Matt G's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Rings of Akhaten (3308/708)

    Hmmmm...

    1. Interesting that the Doctor followed Clara through her history.

    2. Good point about the translation circuit.

    3. Very cheesy ceremonies though.

    4. So...what...the God was the star? Something in the star?

    Not the best episode of all time!

  18. #58
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    Default Re: The Rings of Akhaten (3308/708)

    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    The only problem is that he did leave Hitler in a closet so he could kill millions...that's what should be bothering him. Not nonsensical secrets. How does he deal with picking who and where and when to interfere with? Who lives and who dies? Who to save? There's enough dictators and despots in Earth's history, throw in the galaxy, the galaxy cluster, the supercluster...and you have an infinitum of dictators. So what makes him pick to ignore one and not ignore the other? If he's seen the end of time and the beginning of the universe and knows magical secrets, I hardly doubt that it would be beyond his capability to fight each and every dictator.

    That, in my opinion, would be a lot more logical source of the tears he had in this episode.
    Because, without Hitler's rise to power and engagement in atrocities - Modern Earth would be very different. In fact I'd go so far as to say that without Hitler as an adversary to unite against. Europe would not be as peaceful as it is now, America would likely not be a super power, and Britain would have likely not let go of the empire quite so gracefully. As for how Russia would have developed... well... Point is, as long as the Doctor travels with human companions from Earth, he cannot muck up Earth's key events otherwise he'll screw up the world his companions come from.


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  19. #59
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    Default Re: The Rings of Akhaten (3308/708)

    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    The only problem is that he did leave Hitler in a closet so he could kill millions...that's what should be bothering him. Not nonsensical secrets. How does he deal with picking who and where and when to interfere with? Who lives and who dies? Who to save? There's enough dictators and despots in Earth's history, throw in the galaxy, the galaxy cluster, the supercluster...and you have an infinitum of dictators. So what makes him pick to ignore one and not ignore the other? If he's seen the end of time and the beginning of the universe and knows magical secrets, I hardly doubt that it would be beyond his capability to fight each and every dictator.

    That, in my opinion, would be a lot more logical source of the tears he had in this episode.
    That's probably why they introduced the 'fixed points in time' concept, to explain why the Doctor doesn't go round saving everybody and sanitising history - sometimes he can because time is in flux, sometimes he is all too aware that however much he might want to change events, too much hinges on them. I suppose after twelve hundred years or more of phone box travel you just learn to accept what you cannot change for fear of ripping the universe apart or collapsing time in on itself.
    And now it's time for one last bow, like all your other selves. Eleven's hour is over now... the clock is striking Twelve's.

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  20. #60
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    Default Re: The Rings of Akhaten (3308/708)

    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    The only problem is that he did leave Hitler in a closet so he could kill millions...that's what should be bothering him. Not nonsensical secrets. How does he deal with picking who and where and when to interfere with? Who lives and who dies? Who to save? There's enough dictators and despots in Earth's history, throw in the galaxy, the galaxy cluster, the supercluster...and you have an infinitum of dictators. So what makes him pick to ignore one and not ignore the other? If he's seen the end of time and the beginning of the universe and knows magical secrets, I hardly doubt that it would be beyond his capability to fight each and every dictator.
    That, in my opinion, would be a lot more logical source of the tears he had in this episode.
    That's probably why they introduced the 'fixed points in time' concept, to explain why the Doctor doesn't go round saving everybody and sanitising history - sometimes he can because time is in flux, sometimes he is all too aware that however much he might want to change events, too much hinges on them. I suppose after twelve hundred years or more of phone box travel you just learn to accept what you cannot change for fear of ripping the universe apart or collapsing time in on itself.
    I think so. And we've seen what happens, if he doesn't accept the fact, he can't help everytime, in Waters of Mars. One more reason, why he didn't stop Hitler might be, that he knows he got stoped by the humans themselfes. They did't need the Doctor in the end, (thogh of course he could have save millions).
    Anyway, changing the past is always a tricky thing in timetravel storys, a the main reason it's more than unlikely that it will ever be possible.

    And one more thing: As far as I can see, the Doctor never gos like: "ohm which Planet could I safe today? Which part of history has to change." In fact, he only interfers if something's not happening acording to history, as he knows it. So he can't act against his knowledge, what's supposed to happen. ANd if he does things usualy get worse.
    Nobody asked me, if I wanted to live. So don't anyone tell me how I shoul lead my life.

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