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  1. #21
    General the fifth man's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Enemy of Fate (513)

    Quote Originally Posted by dosed150 View Post
    i'm a bit confused, who actually killed windmark, at first i thought olivia still experiencing the effects of cortexafan, but then the way Michael looked over and made that shushing motion makes me think maybe it was him
    I choose to believe it was Olivia who killed him. I think she had enough power left in her, combined with her hate for him killing her daughter, to finish him off.

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  2. #22
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    Default Re: An Enemy of Fate (513)

    Am I the only one who didn't like the finale? Actually, I didn't like much of season 5 at all. It seemed... disjointed from the rest of the series.

    I don't feel, for one second, that the Observer invasion makes any sense in the mythology of the show. When you see them in season 1, you are nowhere near thinking this is where it's going to end. Sometimes, that's a good thing. But in this case, I thought it was a copout. They were mysterious time masters (not just travelers, since they experienced time differently from us, according to the show) and they turned out to be invading humans 500 years from now. Bleh... Also, how does invading in 2016 makes more sense than invading in 2162 or 1953 or 1534? I mean, the only person they are aware might be able to stop them, read Walter Bishop, lives at that time, yet that's when it makes sense? I bet they needed some technology and cities and all, but still, seems like a really stupid idea to me. Or if they are not afraid of experimenting (read kill) on 'real' humans, why not just arrest all of the Fringe team and make sure they wouldn't mess with their plan? Anyway, for supremely intelligent being, they seemed kinda stupid to me...

    Also, the parallel universe was such an integral part of the series mytho, its underwhelming for it to play such a small part in the resolution. It actually didn't play much of a part at all. Sure, they sent Fauxlivia over here and kept Olivia for a few episodes, but then Peter went there, they talked a bit and then healed the whole thing. Bleh again... where's the war we were promised? Not that the show needed a war necessarily, but at least some kind of epic confrontation. Imagine some sort of cold war between both universes when, in both timelines, the Observers invade (if you keep that storyline) and they have to ally against them, or else, they both lose and die. Have them really involved in the show's resolution instead of a fleeting apparition just to remind us it existed and say they played an 'integral' part. And then, to tie in with Nina's theory back from season 1, one universe has to die to save the other and keep the Observers from succeeding in their invasion? Something with huge consequences and a real emotional impact. Again, I feel they dropped the ball there.

    And what about William Bell? You are satisfied with his God-complex? I'm not. I imagined him more as some kind of mastermind, not a madman. I would have loved having him as the actual leader of the Observers, whatever their purpose, and, yes, having some crazy plan, but not annihilation of the whole universe to reshape it with some freak creatures. Imagine William Bell sending his Observers throughout time to record it, to become the bookkeepers of the universe and gather more knowledge to satisfy his thirst for it, and then thinking that there are some 'mistakes' in the timeline. And then, he feels it is his duty to reshape those events to correct the timeline and make the world a better place for humanity, and for this, he creates the Fringe events and sends his Observers to record what happens and see if everything went according to plan. And at some point, he feels like the Fringe team is actually a mistake and decides to eliminate them. It's a much more personal approach, one I feel is less crazy and more realistic, and the emotional impact is much greater when he realizes he has to kill his old buddy Walter and his son and his romantic interest Nina. And then having some kind of Observer takeover, not so much invasion, would have made sense, especially if he wanted to take down Walternate who is the US Secretary of Defense in the alternate universe.

    And to get to the actual finale, I felt it ended way too abruptly. The actual conclusion consist of one long scene, very often seen but with a slight variation, where young Etta runs to her parents and the 10 seconds scene of Peter opening Walter's letter. I never really felt the conclusion there. What about Astrid? (And, as a side note, why did they even have Astrid on the show? She never really did anything, which is actually quite a shame if you ask me.) What about Nina? What about Broyles? What about Gene while we're at it? I know not everything can be said or resolved on screen, but still, it's the finale, you should have all your main characters in it. And it's a bit unfair that September/Donald couldn't have his time with his son while Walter did. It would have been a nice parallel to have one father save his son's life and almost bring the end of a universe while the other father saves his son's life and brings the salvation of humanity. And, somehow, the only one who remembers is Walter. I think this would have been more fitting. Walter remembers everything that happened but can't talk about it because no one else does, and to avoid being declared crazy, he has to keep this burden to himself while at the same time, feeling he has redeemed himself for his past mistakes.

    Anyway, I feel the show had a lot of promise back when it began, but I'm not so sure I would recommend it now that I know how it ends. I don't feel it delivers in any way in its final season, which was lackluster at best (I didn't love any episodes, and I was actually bored through a few of them).

  3. #23
    Captain
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    Default Re: An Enemy of Fate (513)

    It delivers the final chapter given the option they were given, i.e. 13 episodes to tell a 3 year story (if you assume to believe the original 7 year, beginning, middle & end story they claim to have started with), with that in mind, I'm sure there are huge great chunks of the story untold.

    I agree about Walter, it would have thrown another typical Fringe twist on things if only he remembered everything and had to learn to keep his mouth shut, no mean feet I'd imagine.

  4. #24

    Default Re: An Enemy of Fate (513)

    Very good finale for a great series.
    Currently watching: Dark Matter, 12 Monkeys, Doctor Who, Under the Dome, The Mentalist, The Messengers, The Last Ship, Elementary, Dominion, The Whispers, Extant, Olympus, Da Vinci's Demons, Vikings

  5. #25
    Chief Master Sergeant
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    Default Re: An Enemy of Fate (513)

    Quote Originally Posted by YodaOldBoy View Post
    Am I the only one who didn't like the finale? Actually, I didn't like much of season 5 at all. It seemed... disjointed from the rest of the series.

    I don't feel, for one second, that the Observer invasion makes any sense in the mythology of the show. When you see them in season 1, you are nowhere near thinking this is where it's going to end. Sometimes, that's a good thing. But in this case, I thought it was a copout. They were mysterious time masters (not just travelers, since they experienced time differently from us, according to the show) and they turned out to be invading humans 500 years from now. Bleh... Also, how does invading in 2016 makes more sense than invading in 2162 or 1953 or 1534? I mean, the only person they are aware might be able to stop them, read Walter Bishop, lives at that time, yet that's when it makes sense? I bet they needed some technology and cities and all, but still, seems like a really stupid idea to me. Or if they are not afraid of experimenting (read kill) on 'real' humans, why not just arrest all of the Fringe team and make sure they wouldn't mess with their plan? Anyway, for supremely intelligent being, they seemed kinda stupid to me...

    Also, the parallel universe was such an integral part of the series mytho, its underwhelming for it to play such a small part in the resolution. It actually didn't play much of a part at all. Sure, they sent Fauxlivia over here and kept Olivia for a few episodes, but then Peter went there, they talked a bit and then healed the whole thing. Bleh again... where's the war we were promised? Not that the show needed a war necessarily, but at least some kind of epic confrontation. Imagine some sort of cold war between both universes when, in both timelines, the Observers invade (if you keep that storyline) and they have to ally against them, or else, they both lose and die. Have them really involved in the show's resolution instead of a fleeting apparition just to remind us it existed and say they played an 'integral' part. And then, to tie in with Nina's theory back from season 1, one universe has to die to save the other and keep the Observers from succeeding in their invasion? Something with huge consequences and a real emotional impact. Again, I feel they dropped the ball there.

    And what about William Bell? You are satisfied with his God-complex? I'm not. I imagined him more as some kind of mastermind, not a madman. I would have loved having him as the actual leader of the Observers, whatever their purpose, and, yes, having some crazy plan, but not annihilation of the whole universe to reshape it with some freak creatures. Imagine William Bell sending his Observers throughout time to record it, to become the bookkeepers of the universe and gather more knowledge to satisfy his thirst for it, and then thinking that there are some 'mistakes' in the timeline. And then, he feels it is his duty to reshape those events to correct the timeline and make the world a better place for humanity, and for this, he creates the Fringe events and sends his Observers to record what happens and see if everything went according to plan. And at some point, he feels like the Fringe team is actually a mistake and decides to eliminate them. It's a much more personal approach, one I feel is less crazy and more realistic, and the emotional impact is much greater when he realizes he has to kill his old buddy Walter and his son and his romantic interest Nina. And then having some kind of Observer takeover, not so much invasion, would have made sense, especially if he wanted to take down Walternate who is the US Secretary of Defense in the alternate universe.

    And to get to the actual finale, I felt it ended way too abruptly. The actual conclusion consist of one long scene, very often seen but with a slight variation, where young Etta runs to her parents and the 10 seconds scene of Peter opening Walter's letter. I never really felt the conclusion there. What about Astrid? (And, as a side note, why did they even have Astrid on the show? She never really did anything, which is actually quite a shame if you ask me.) What about Nina? What about Broyles? What about Gene while we're at it? I know not everything can be said or resolved on screen, but still, it's the finale, you should have all your main characters in it. And it's a bit unfair that September/Donald couldn't have his time with his son while Walter did. It would have been a nice parallel to have one father save his son's life and almost bring the end of a universe while the other father saves his son's life and brings the salvation of humanity. And, somehow, the only one who remembers is Walter. I think this would have been more fitting. Walter remembers everything that happened but can't talk about it because no one else does, and to avoid being declared crazy, he has to keep this burden to himself while at the same time, feeling he has redeemed himself for his past mistakes.

    Anyway, I feel the show had a lot of promise back when it began, but I'm not so sure I would recommend it now that I know how it ends. I don't feel it delivers in any way in its final season, which was lackluster at best (I didn't love any episodes, and I was actually bored through a few of them).

    ditto, ditto, ditto ditto, ditto!!!

  6. #26
    Lieutenant General Egle01's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Enemy of Fate (513)

    Started watching Fringe a few weeks ago, got hooked immediately and finished the incredibly run on Saturday. I had postponed watching this series for a number of reasons and I regret it; too bad my experience only lasted for two weeks, while other fans had five long years. Based on the White Tulip gesture at CC 2012, it looks like this franchise has the best and most supportive fans. Would've loved to be part of that family. When I started with the pilot, I could've never imagined that the Fringe team would end up that far away time- and every other -wise.

    PTB took incredible risks, some of them paid off big time, some not so much. But I must credit them for being original and brave. All five seasons was a fun ride, it started with me gasping for air and whispering to myself 'Oh my God' at the end of almost every episode; it ended with a complete sob-fest aka the 5th season and final episodes in particular. The ending was perfect character-wise and emotionally. My little shipper heart is so glad Peter and Olivia got their happy ending; Walter got to redeem his past mistakes. The last look on Peter's face can be interpreted by anyone as they see fit.

  7. #27
    Chief Master Sergeant TennisMennis's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Enemy of Fate (513)

    Quote Originally Posted by dosed150 View Post
    i'm a bit confused, who actually killed windmark, at first i thought olivia still experiencing the effects of cortexafan, but then the way Michael looked over and made that shushing motion makes me think maybe it was him
    Yes, it was Olivia. Michael's motion reflects back to when Olivia asked him a question - what can we do to stop the Observers - and then he made that exact motion when she killed Widmer. Is this what you were talking about?
    - The Truth is Out There!

  8. #28
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    Default Re: An Enemy of Fate (513)

    Quote Originally Posted by dosed150 View Post
    i'm a bit confused, who actually killed windmark, at first i thought olivia still experiencing the effects of cortexafan, but then the way Michael looked over and made that shushing motion makes me think maybe it was him
    Quote Originally Posted by TennisMennis View Post
    Yes, it was Olivia. Michael's motion reflects back to when Olivia asked him a question - what can we do to stop the Observers - and then he made that exact motion when she killed Widmer. Is this what you were talking about?
    Eh, the scene is ambiguous and probably on purpose. Some people will read the shushing as confirmation that Olivia did it, others will see it as confirmation that Michael did it. Many of us will just smile at the mystery.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: An Enemy of Fate (513)

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Freyr View Post
    Eh, the scene is ambiguous and probably on purpose. Some people will read the shushing as confirmation that Olivia did it, others will see it as confirmation that Michael did it. Many of us will just smile at the mystery.
    It wasn't. The lights going out, the blown power lines, the fact we know she's been known to do things with her mind, and the way it was choreograph leaves no doubt in my mind.

    It all was set up to give Peter something emotional to deal with, Walter his parallel crossover, and Olivia payback for Etta.

    What the whole "Shh" thing was about, I don't know.

  10. #30
    Captain Brother Freyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Enemy of Fate (513)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrja84 View Post
    It wasn't. The lights going out, the blown power lines, the fact we know she's been known to do things with her mind, and the way it was choreograph leaves no doubt in my mind.
    Exept that her kortexifan levels were almost entirely depleted by healing the gunshot wound. Walter explained she'd be pretty much normal, definitely unable to something like we saw in this scene. I would have said, on that basis, that Michael killed Winmark, except that the "shh" and looks between Michael & Olivia introduced doubt. People will believe what they want to believe, and fans will be unable to prove each other wrong. Which is fine, IMHO.

  11. #31
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    Default Re: An Enemy of Fate (513)

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Freyr View Post
    Exept that her kortexifan levels were almost entirely depleted by healing the gunshot wound. Walter explained she'd be pretty much normal, definitely unable to something like we saw in this scene. I would have said, on that basis, that Michael killed Winmark, except that the "shh" and looks between Michael & Olivia introduced doubt. People will believe what they want to believe, and fans will be unable to prove each other wrong. Which is fine, IMHO.
    Michael has no motivation to kill Windmark.

    Olivia held Etta's bullet necklace in her hand as a reminder. She pushed all her anger and rage into that. SHE was the one that cause the blackout. It is a cliche setup where you see an individual focus their power and in the background there's lightning, things flying around, etc. It was a cliche image used to denote that Olivia was gathering her strength like never before.

    That sort of cinematopgraphy is used very often as a way to relay the idea of "this person is going to kick some butt". That was clear enough for anyone to see as long as they were thinking about it too much.

    Recall in Season 1, she didn't need a shot of the drug to flip the switch as she had it in her system. later they used the drug to build up her strength, but she ALWAYS had the power in her since the trials.

  12. #32
    Captain Brother Freyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Enemy of Fate (513)

    Well, enjoy your belief

  13. #33
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    Default Re: An Enemy of Fate (513)

    No Peter would always have ended up crossing over, September says that Olive is the Olivia his future should have happened with

  14. #34
    Brigadier General fems's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Enemy of Fate (513)

    Started watching Fringe over the last few weeks and just finished with the finale. It was certainly an emotional episode but like some of the other people in this thread I have mixed feelings about the resolution. Many events were very predictable this time around too, with Walter willing to take the boy to the future and then seeing that syringe it was obvious September was going to use it on himself because he's the father; once that decision was made it was pretty clear it wouldn't work out the way they wanted and Walter would still have to (reluctantly this time, after being relieved he'd get to live out his life with his family) sacrifice himself.

    I do have to say that overall I was impressed with the show's makeup and costume department throughout the show, except for that one time in the future where Olivia and Peter don't have kids (and are discussing having some anyway, even though Olivia has to be in her midforties by then, apparently that's not an issue) and they still look the same age. Oh and the alternate universe in the finale; they looked the same age, except for a gray streak in Fauxlivia's hair?!
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  15. #35
    Staff Sergeant myowndrownedworld's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Enemy of Fate (513)

    Stunning finale and the last scene is so open to anyone's own interpretation

    Brilliant show. Sad to see it go, but grateful it lasted the five seasons it did.

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