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  1. #1
    Major Wass's Avatar
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    Default Jacob Carter/Carmen Argenziano Thunk/Discussion/Appreciation

    I had quick look around there wasn’t a thread on this subject so I am going to create one.

    I just want say what great character Jacob Carter had become over the years he will be truly missed. But I do understand why TPTB decided to finish the character for gooD. Sam and others needed a closure and also considering season 9 is going in different direction Jacob will no longer needed it was graceful ending for one of my favourite characters.
    Last edited by Wass; February 10th, 2005 at 12:48 PM.

  2. #2
    Major General sueKay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jacob Carter Appreciation thread (Beware of spoilers for episode 8.19 “Threads”)

    I loved Jacob!!!!!

    I'm really say he's gone but the death scene has got to be one of the most touching and beautiful scenes I've ever seen.

    I hope we bump into him in an AU or something along the way in season nine though.

    Part 2 coming very soon!! (this is a fic btw, not the Fandemonium novel)

  3. #3
    Captain lucylou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jacob Carter Appreciation thread (Beware of spoilers for episode 8.19 “Threads”)

    I loved Jacob too! He was my favourite guest star on the show. Carmen and Amanda have an amazing chemistry and were totally believable playing father and daughter. All of their scenes together were amazing and those last ones were so poignant. I'll miss Jacob so much!

    Lucy x

  4. #4
    Lieutenant Colonel MartoufMarty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jacob Carter Appreciation thread (Beware of spoilers for episode 8.19 “Threads”)

    I cried when Jacob died.

    It was so sad.

    I never expected him to just go and die.

    I've always liked Jacob. I'll miss him.

    Also, what bugged me was how they kept on saying 'four years ago'. Wouldn't it have been six years ago?

    Also, (I'm nit-picking here) the episode was 8.18 Threads, not 8.19... Just pointing it out.

    *runs away*

  5. #5
    Captain lucylou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jacob Carter Appreciation thread (Beware of spoilers for episode 8.19 “Threads”)

    Quote Originally Posted by MartoufMarty
    I cried when Jacob died.

    It was so sad.

    I never expected him to just go and die.

    I've always liked Jacob. I'll miss him.

    Also, what bugged me was how they kept on saying 'four years ago'. Wouldn't it have been six years ago?

    Also, (I'm nit-picking here) the episode was 8.18 Threads, not 8.19... Just pointing it out.

    *runs away*
    I was wondering that too! It was season 2 when Jacob was given the symbiote wasn't it? so it would be six years not four!

  6. #6
    Major Wass's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jacob Carter Appreciation thread (Beware of spoilers for episode 8.19 “Threads”)

    Quote Originally Posted by MartoufMarty
    Also, (I'm nit-picking here) the episode was 8.18 Threads, not 8.19... Just pointing it out.

    *runs away*
    Yes you are correct my mistake been ill my head is still messed up.

  7. #7
    Major Wass's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jacob Carter Appreciation thread (Beware of spoilers for episode 8.19 “Threads”)

    One thing that really ticked me off was the fact that Sam’S brother Jacobs son (can’t remember his name) was not there when he died I mean the tok’ra managed to turn up to pay there respects and they did not even call his son.

  8. #8
    Colonel gatebee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jacob Carter Appreciation thread (Beware of spoilers for episode 8.19 “Threads”)

    Jacob was a better dad with Selmak's help. Selmak even made Jacob reunite with his son and grandchildren. Missing Jacob too.

    Gatebee

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Jacob Carter Appreciation thread (Beware of spoilers for episode 8.19 “Threads”)

    Warning: SPOILERS for Seasons 7 and 8 below:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wass
    I had quick look around there wasn’t a thread on this subject so I am going to create one.

    I just want say what great character Jacob Carter had become over the years he will be truly missed. But I do understand why TPTB decided to finish the character for gooD. Sam and others needed a closure and also considering season 9 is going in different direction Jacob will no longer needed it was graceful ending for one of my favourite characters.
    I couldn't agree more - Jacob Carter was a wonderful character and I am truly sorry that he is gone.

    --------------------------------------------

    JACK: Excuse me. I distinctly remember someone saying "We're not gonna make it!" I think we made it.
    JACOB: I'm sorry, I overreacted. At the time it seemed we weren't gonna make it.
    JACK: Yes! Well, next time, maybe we'll just wait and see.
    JACOB: (Rather sarcastically, yet with a smile ) And blow the last chance I'll ever have to being right?
    (Sam's grinning behind Jacob)
    JACK: (As Jacob passes by him) What?
    SAM: (Laughing...)Welcome to MY life! (on her way out of the room)
    .
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    Photos are screen captures from the episodes 'Exodus' and 'Enemies'
    Transcript excerpts are mainly from the Stargate SG-1 Transcript Website

    .
    --------------------------------------------


    Infirmary -Sam wakes up to find Jacob sitting there.

    Jacob: Howdy kid. You were asleep for a long time. You gave me quite a scare.
    Sam: I'm sorry.
    Jacob: Jack told me what happened. I'm proud of you. Look Sam, I may not be able to come around as much for the next little while.
    Sam: What do you mean?
    Jacob: Things kind of got screwed up while you were out there. The alliance is in trouble.
    Sam: I don't understand.
    Jacob: You don't need to know the details right now. Let’s just say we're going our separate ways for a while. If I stay with the Tokra, I can at least try to mend some fences.
    Sam: You sure?

    Jacob: I'm not ready to give up on this just yet.
    He kisses her.
    Jacob: Don't worry, I'll be back eventually.
    Sam: I'll miss you.
    Jacob: I'll miss you too. Bye.
    .
    ------------------

    Photos are screen captures from the episode Death Knell
    Transcript excerpts are from the Stargate SG-1 Transcript website

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    If you want to see a wonderful Jacob and Sam video montage, that now makes me cry
    >>> 'In My Daughter's Eyes':
    http://www.creative-insanity.net/voi...s/daughter.wmv
    From the website: http://www.creative-insanity.net/voi...rgatevids.html

    ---------------
    .

  10. #10
    Lieutenant Colonel MartoufMarty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jacob Carter Appreciation thread (Beware of spoilers for episode 8.19 “Threads”)

    I think I might watch some of that episode over again... It was just so sad...

  11. #11
    First Lieutenant tara3583's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jacob Carter Appreciation thread (Beware of spoilers for episode 8.18 “Threads”)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wass
    I had quick look around there wasn’t a thread on this subject so I am going to create one.

    I just want say what great character Jacob Carter had become over the years he will be truly missed. But I do understand why TPTB decided to finish the character for gooD. Sam and others needed a closure and also considering season 9 is going in different direction Jacob will no longer needed it was graceful ending for one of my favourite characters.

    I really loved the relationship between Sam and
    her Dad, it was so beutifully played by both Amanda and Carmen that it really did feel like you were watching father and daughter.
    I will miss this side of Stargate very much and
    to be honest although tptb gave Jacob a very moving end, i felt that maybe they could have had Salmak die in the same that Joinar died in Sam, that way tptb could have explored the Gou'ld tecnology with both Sam and her father and also see how Jacob deals with the loss of Salmak.
    ......TARA......

  12. #12
    President Snow hlndncr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jacob Carter Appreciation thread (Beware of spoilers for episode 8.18 “Threads”)

    I've decided to try and revive this thread. Really for my own amusement, but if anyone is interested in joining me, I'm happy for the company.

    I'm on a focus on secondary characters kick right now, and Jacob is one of my all-time favorites. He added so much to the show. He gave Sam depth, and was a wonderful foil for Jack. He made the Tok'ra storyline possible. One of my few complaints is that I would have liked to see more exploration of the differences between Jacob and Selmak; she/he(?) doesn't come out to play very often. But it was interesting to see how Selmak influenced and changed Jacob.

    Jacob is first introduced in season 2 and was in 25 episodes of SG1. I plan on rewatching and reviewing all 25. (Maybe about 1 a week if I can manage it). I'd welcome anyone else's thoughts and feedback as I go along.

    Here's the list of Season 2 episodes so all who wish to may follow along:
    Secrets
    The Tok'ra Part 1
    The Tok'ra Part 2
    Show and Tell

    I'll try and get a review of Secrets up in the next day or two.
    Last edited by hlndncr; June 18th, 2010 at 12:39 PM.

  13. #13
    President Snow hlndncr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jacob Carter Appreciation thread (Beware of spoilers for episode 8.18 �Threads�)

    Secrets



    Summary:
    Sam and Jack are in Washington to receive the Air Medal from the President, officially for their work in analyzing deep space radar telemetry, but really for blowing up Apophis's motherships and saving the world from the Gou'ald. General Hammond invites Sam's dad, Major General Jacob Carter to the ceremony, where he informs her that he has pulled some strings to get her into NASA. Sam is not thrilled with her father's interference and he becomes upset with her apparent lack of gratitude for doing what he thinks is helping her achieve her dream of going into space. When Colonel O'Neill witnesses the death of a reporter who has threatened to expose the Stargate program, the medal ceremony is cancelled. Sam's dad informs her that he has cancer and they part on bad terms.
    (There is a second plot with Daniel and Teal'c on Abydos, but it has no bearing on Jacob's character, and so I'm not going to summarize or review it.)

    Favorite Scene: Where Jack and Jacob meet for the first time. It's the beginning of a beautiful (if slightly antagonistic) friendship.

    Favorite Lines:
    I retired myself once; couldn't stay away.
    Jacob: From deep space radar telemetry?
    Well it's just so damned fascinating.

    Generally:
    This is a great introduction for Jacob's charater. We learn a lot about him. He's career Air Force and obviously very successful to become a two star general. He served with Hammond, and I believe they are friends. He is appearantly stationed in Washington, probably at the Pentagon, and is about to retire. He clearly has some very high connections and knows how to work them. However, they aren't high enough to know what his daughter is really doing, and I get the feeling that bothers him quite a bit. And of course, at the end we learn that he has cancer. All of this makes for a very interesting, multifaceted character right off the bat, and we just add more layers to him as the series moves forward, which is one of the reasons I love this character.

    Jacob/Sam:
    Jacob's relationship with his daughter is central to this episode's storyline and it's focus of keeping and revealing secrets, but it is also a major part of Sam's character development and growth. Adding this tense and complicated father/daughter dynamic was a brilliant move for Sam's character. It gives her so much more depth and interest. We can begin to see what has shaped and molded her into the officer and person she is up to this point.

    CA and AT play their scenes so well that you can read so much into their relationship from just the tiny tip of the iceberg we actually see on screen. From Sam we see both surprise and apprehension the moment she realizes her father is there, and the unease carries throughout the episode. (We see her standing at military parade rest when she's with him; superior officer first, dad second.) When her father tells her about the strings he's pulled to get her into NASA you can see her desire to please him and live up to his vision for her, but at the same time a resentment that he just doesn't get her or the fact that she has a life of her own to live. And you can just tell that she's not the kind of person who wants any favors from her dad. She wants to know that she can make it on her own.

    I think for Jacob he is obviously proud of his brilliant daughter, but he can't stop himself from pushing her. I think he's slightly resentful that he's out of the loop and the NASA gig is just his way of getting back in. I'm sure feeling so out of control with the cancer and what may happen next doesn't help because orchestrating Sam's life seems to be one way he's decided to take back some control and run things (like any good general should right?) You can tell that he's really not good with the emotional stuff. When the medal ceremony is cancelled he says Sam must be disappointed, but he's not willing to express his own disappointment. He also just dumps the cancer news on her, then closes up and walks away.

    Jacob/Hammond:
    We learn that Jacob and Hammond have served together and at least keep in touch enough for Hammond to feel comfortable making the invite to come see Sam get her medal. I think it is interesting because here and in The Tok'ra coming up, Hammond plays an intermediary between Jacob and Sam. He knows and respects both of them and brings a sort of caring outsider perspective to their relationship that eventually helps the two reconcile.

    Jacob/Jack:
    I love the dynamic between these two characters. Right from the beginning you can see this antagonistic, reluctant respect. I mean I think Jack starts off trying to be open and friendly (his usual flippant self) but that obviously doesn't fly and the stand-off begins. Jacob is clearly suspicious, not just of their cover story, but of the man who has clearly won his daughter's loyalty and respect. Interesting to see how alike these two really are (which has got to have Jacob worried). Both career soldiers with a tough exterior and (as we find out later about Jacob) a rather sarcastic sense of humor. Both have an alpha male self assuredness. And I think each in their own way, have a great deal of pride in Sama and want her approval and respect in turn. While I believe Jacob eventually develops a fondness for Jack, at first I really don't think he's too impressed with Sam's CO. And in terms of their little sparring match/staring contest, Jacob definitely wins as Jack (wisely) opts for a strategic retreat.
    Last edited by hlndncr; June 30th, 2010 at 07:56 AM.

  14. #14
    President Snow hlndncr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jacob Carter Appreciation thread (Beware of spoilers for episode 8.18 �Threads�)

    The Tok'ra Part 1


    Summary:
    Sam has a dream in which she believes she has seen the location of the Tok'ra base from Jolinar's memories. Believing they could become allies against the goa'uld she convinces her superiors to allow her team to go through the stargate to try and make contact. Before leaving she calls her father and tries to mend some fences, knowing that he is dying of cancer and he may not be there when she returns. While SG1 are off-world trying to negotiate an alliance with the Tok'ra, General Hammond receives a call from Jacob. He goes to the hospital, where Jacob tries once again to discover what kind of work Sam really does for the Air Force.

    During their talks with the Tok'ra, SG1 is introduced to Selmak and her host Saroosh, who is over 200 years old and dying. Selmak will also die if another willing host cannot be found. Not suprisingly, no one on SG1 is anxious to volunteer. At the hospital, General Hammond is told that Jacob has very little time and he should get any family there right away. He sends SG3 to the Tok'ra planet to extract Carter and bring her home to say goodbye to her father. The Tok'ra, however, decide to reject earth's proposal of an alliance and take SG1 and SG3 prisoner.

    Favorite Line:

    Jacob: Tell me what my little girl's doing.

    . . . You know it's classified.

    Jacob: . . . Who am I going to tell? God?

    Generally:
    We have a clear continuation of the relationships established in Secrets. Sam and Jacob continue to push against each other, even while you can tell they want to find a way to come together. Meanwhile, General Hammond continues to play the intermediary, trying to talk sense into both of them. And it is quite clear from the outset that the situation with Saroosh/Selmak is setting us up for Jacob to take a trip through the gate, which is a very nice pay off to the cancer storyline (but more about that in part 2).

    Jacob and Hammond:
    I have to point out here again that I believe Jacob and General Hammond have a very close friendship. When Sam asks if he knew her dad had taken an apartment in Colorado Springs, it comes as no surprise to Hammond. He states that he has known Jacob a long time, and he clearly knows his and his daughter's personalities (and stubborness) very well. When Jacob is in the hospital and needs to talk with someone, he calls his friend George. And I just love the naturalness of the friendship and interactions between these two. I can picture them as young men serving together, and spending time with one another's families.

    Jacob and Sam:
    Here we see Jacob trying to get closer to Sam by moving to Colorado Springs, but still unwilling to let her in completely by not letting her be there and support him in his illness. I think this just leaves Sam wondering if he really has any love or respect for her at all. He continues to push both Sam and George about what her real job is, and I think Sam takes offense at that. He won't let her in on his life, but he expects to know everything that is going on in hers. I also think she fears his disapproval. Hammond rightly points out that one thing Sam has clearly learned from her father is to be a good soldier and do her duty no matter the personal cost to herself or those she loves.

    I also have to note that when SG3 comes to give her the news that her father is dying, she doesn't ask to go home or lets herself show any weakness. It's Jack who picks a fight with the Tok'ra to try and let her leave. Jack knows what it means to be a tough soldier, but he also has come to understand through sad experience what is really important. Something Jacob probably knows too, but has buried and has not tried to pass on to his daughter.

  15. #15
    President Snow hlndncr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jacob Carter/Carmen Argenziano Thunk/Discussion/Appreciation

    The Tok'ra Part 2


    Summary:
    Sam and Jack return to earth and propose to take Sam's dad, Jacob Carter, back as a potential host for the Tok'ra Selmak, whose current host, Saroosh is dying. General Hammond reluctantly agrees, and he and Sam go to the hospital where Jacob is dying of cancer to share the news about what his daughter actually does for the Air Force and how it might save his life, if he's willing to share that life (and his body) with a Tok'ra symbiote they still don't quite trust.

    Jacob is thrown into the wacky alien filled world of SG1 with a vengence. After traveling through the stargate, Sam takes Jacob to meet his new potential soulmate, while the rest of the team helps with an emergency evacuation in the face of an impending goa'uld attack and Jack attempts to unmask the spy who betrayed them. After interviewing the host and being interviewed in turn by the symbiote, Jacob and Selmak agree to the blending. Sam and Martouf are left to watch over them as Selmak repairs Jacob's cancer-ridden body while the others escape through the gate.

    After a successful blending Jacob/Selmak, Sam and Martouf dodge goa'uld death gliders and manage to dive through the gate back to earth, where Jacob informs General Hammond that, based on the knowledge he has gained from the blending, he made the right call. Jacob then volunteers to become the liason between earth and the Tok'ra. He says goodbye to his daughter and leaves to help the Tok'ra regroup from the attack.

    Favorite Scene:
    Selmak interviewing Jacob to determine whether she likes him.

    Favorite Lines:
    (Stepping out of the gate.)

    Jacob: You do that a lot?

    : Yeah, once or twice a week.

    Jacob: It beats the hell out of a shuttle on the back of a rocket.

    : Goes a lot further, too.

    Generally:
    This is such a great episode for Jacob, and he really is the A storyline. We see him go through so many different emotions and changes in temperament and character in such a short time. CA does an amazing job of showing us this range. He starts off the tough no nonsense general stoically facing his end, then becomes the overwhelmed and uncertain father--dying of cancer and depending on his daughter and these unknown aliens for a cure, and finally he is two people in one, with a whole new universe opened up to him.

    Jacob/Sam:
    One thing I love about CA’s performance is that he is able to show curiosity and wonder at seeing the gate for the first time, being led through the alien tunnels, meeting Teal’c, and so on. At the same time theirs this little touch of apprehension and confusion. Jacob is clearly not used to being out of control and looking to his daughter for guidance.

    We can already see an evolution in Jacob and Sam’s relationship in this episode. When Sam comes to her father in the hospital he is his usual brusque self, not willing to show any weakness in front of his daughter. Then he is launched into this very alien (pardon the pun) situation and his walls begin to come down.

    Before he accepts the blending he realizes this may be his final opportunity to really let Sam in. When he tries to open up emotionally, Sam initially reacts by backing away and giving him an out. You can see that she is not any more comfortable with confronting personal issues openly and honestly than is her father. But Jacob, like a soldier facing an enemy line, pushes forward. He is able to tell Sam that he is proud of her for who she is and not who he wishes her to be. We get the impression that this is the first time Sam has ever heard anything like this from Jacob and she’s not entirely sure how to react. Despite the strained relationship, Sam is realizing that this may very well be the last time she has her dad as himself.

    Almost immediately after the blending there is already a softening in Jacob. When he first wakes he calls her Sammie (instead of Sam or my kid). And before leaving the SGC with the other Tok’ra he is able to smile and joke with Sam about being the oldest and the wisest, to which she rolls her eyes. He hugs Sam goodbye and even says “I love you.” It is in marked contrast with the cold and formal parting earlier in Secrets.

    Jacob/Selmak:
    Just as an aside, I have to begin by noting I really love Saroosh. She looks and sounds so much like my own grandmother who was one of my very best friends. The actress did a wonderful job of portraying two characters in one, and this is the only time we get a sense of who Selmak is apart from Jacob. Saroosh tells us that Selmak is selfless, caring, humorous, and well educated. We also learn that she has lived through some horrible times and seen many goa’uld atrocities. The two things Selmak is concerned about when she meets Jacob are his political views (with regard to goa’uld), showing her dedication to the Tok’ra cause, and his character (is he a good man?), which demonstrates her moral character. I think what endears Jacob to her is his blunt practicality. He points out that both of them will die if they don’t choose to blend so there is really no choice. I think in the end, the concern he shows for maintaining a relationship with his daughter also gives Selmak reason to like Jacob and choose to blend with him.

    I would have liked to have seen more of an exploration of the differences between these two characters throughout the series. We get glimpses from time to time, but most often it is Jacob speaking. I don’t think Selmak as a character was developed and used to the fullest.

    On a technical note, I think the CGI symbiote (Selmak) that entered Jacob looked too small and underdeveloped, more like the larval goa'uld than a full grown (and in fact very aged) symbiote. But that was a small thing to me, that I can easily overlook.

    Jacob/Other:
    We see a continuation of the friendship between Jacob and General Hammond. Hammond shows incredible trust in both Sam and Jacob in allowing Jacob to go through the Stargate and undertake this mission. In the end, Jacob tries to reassure his friend that he did the right thing.

    I have always loved the interactions between Jacob and Jack. We see here Jack’s friendship with Sam influencing his actions. He wants to get her back to her father and he is willing to back her when she suggests her father might be a host to Selmak. Then when Jacob is brought to the gate that first time, he is very solicitous of Jacob. At the same time you can sense a little smugness in his attitude at being able to show Jacob what his daughter really does (how do you like them apples?). The teasing banter that becomes such an integral part of their relationship is not lost here. And at the end when Jacob says to Jack, “Don’t call us, we’ll call you,” it is clearly Jacob showing that he once again has the upper hand in their little rivalry.

    Finally, we have the hints at a future friendship between Jacob and Martouf, as Martouf promises Sam he will look after her father as if he were his own. It is clear at this point that his promise is based on his fondness for Sam (or at least the part of Sam which carries the memories of Jolinar). While I’m sure he knows and respects Selmak, I don’t get the feeling that there was a strong personal connection between them before Jacob.

  16. #16
    President Snow hlndncr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jacob Carter/Carmen Argenziano Thunk/Discussion/Appreciation

    Show and Tell


    Summary:
    A genetically engineered child comes through the Stargate claiming to have a message from his "mother." He warns the SGC that a group of rebels from an invisible race called the Retu are out to destroy all potential hosts as a means of stopping the goa'uld who destroyed their world, and they are going to begin with earth. When our team discovers that Teal'c's symbiote can sense the presence of the Retu "mother" the Tok'ra are called in to assist. Jacob comes and brings a weapon, the TER, that can both detect and kill the Retu. The base is infiltrated by a rebel squad after a reconnaissance shows just how large the rebel faction has become. SG1, with Jacob's help is able to prevent the rebels from escaping the base and causing any real harm. Meanwhile the child is about to die because of mistakes resulting from the genetic manipulation required to allow him to act as an intermediary between humans and the Retu. Selmak offers to take him to the Tok'ra where he will become a host and live.

    Favorite Scene:
    I don't know that I have one. But when the team and Jacob are looking over the ridge and we see hundreds of Retu appear and disappear as they sweep the landscape with the TERs is pretty cool.

    Favortie Line:
    (Not a Jacob line, but just too good to resist.)
    Son, how did your mother do that?
    Charlie: I am no longer called son. Call me Charlie.
    (Hammond smiles indulgently.)

    Generally:
    This is the first time we see Jacob since his blending with Selmak, but not the first time we have had a visit from the Tok'ra since we first made contact with them. In Serpent's Song our team believes they have received a message from the Tok'ra, but when they go to investigate they discover an injured and dying Apophis who is fleeing from Sokar. Later Martouf comes through the gate and we learn a little about what Jacob is doing. Sam is told her father couldn't come to earth at that time because he was tending to "more urgent matters," again emphasizing the importance of Selmak. Martouf also suggests that he has spent some time getting to know Jacob and learn more about the Tau'ri and he expresses his admiration; although Lantash's reaction makes me wonder whether he feels the same. One key point at the end of that episode is they exchange communication devices (a tollan device from Tok'ra and a GDO from the the SGC), which plays a role in this episode and shows how Jacob's association with the Tok'ra is in some way helping to advance the earth/Tok'ra alliance.

    Jacob:
    We get a different look at Jacob in this episode. He is acting very much the soldier and the general. You can see in his competance and command of the situation that it was no accident that he rose to the rank he did. He is also clearly in the liason role here as well. The information he conveys during the briefing scenes clearly comes from Selmak, but Jacob is the one doing the talking.

    We also see his relationship with Sam from an interesting new perspective. This is the first time they are working together on a joint mission, first to recon the Retu rebel staging planet and then to track down and destroy the infiltrators. They are very much all business and work well together. Although she does show concern and hesitate when Jacob is shot, and Selmak has to take over and order her to go on with the mission. I think in turn Jacob demonstrates pride in seeing his daughter at her kick-a$$ best.

    The progression in their personal relationship is also evident. When Jacob first comes through the wormhole and Sam immediately asks for Selmak's help he shows some defensiveness with her (I thought maybe you just wanted to see your old man) and Hammond (Nice to see you too, George). While it is coached as playful banter, perhaps Jacob has an underlying concern that he is no longer sufficiently important to the people he cares about, except as a host to Selmak. I wouldn't go so far as to say he resents Selmak, but there might be some slight anxiety about his place now. By the end Jacob is very much reassured and we see both friendly and tender moments as he says goodby for now to his daughter and friends; Sam even gives him a little wink as she sends him off.

    Selmak:
    We do get some insight into Selmak's character in this episode. First, it is notable that she (I'm calling Slemak she because I felt that when they started using the male pronoun they took away one of the most interesting ascpects of this character--that she had previously inhabited a female host for at least 200 years) did allow Jacob to take the lead for the most part; even though it is clear that she definitely commands some authority and a great deal of respect among the Tok'ra. However, when she was in control she was very much a presence. When she is faced with new information and challenges she is able to assess the situations and formulate a plan of action very quickly, including: ordering the other Tok'ra to return and fetch TERs, doing recon on the planet, ordering Sam to go after Jacob has been injured, and offering to take Charlie to become a host. In fact, I think Selmak's offer to take Charlie with her is very telling about her character. She herself had said that she had seen awful things and faced much loss. She was quick to offer help that would prevent Charlie's death. It was not only compassionate (which I believe was definitely her primary motivation), but a further cementing of the alliance, as the need for hosts played a big role in the Tok'ra's willingness to consider the arrangement in the first place. She further demonstrates her compassion and concern when she admonishes Teal'c to be vigilent.

    Trivia:
    We really know nothing about Sam's mother at this point, but it is notable that Jacob is still wearing his wedding ring.

  17. #17
    President Snow hlndncr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jacob Carter/Carmen Argenziano Thunk/Discussion/Appreciation

    It's time to move on to looking at Jacob/Selmak in season 3.

    Here are the episodes:
    Seth
    Jolinar’s Memories
    The Devil You Know
    Tangent
    The Serpent’s Venom

    I will be putting up a review of Seth shortly.

  18. #18
    President Snow hlndncr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jacob Carter/Carmen Argenziano Thunk/Discussion/Appreciation

    Seth



    Summary
    Jacob is sent by the Tok'ra high counsel to ask the SGC to help them locate Seth, a banished goa'uld System Lord who may have been hiding out on earth for thousands of years. Sam discovers that Selmak has an alterior motive for coming, she wants Jacob to resolve the lingering issues with his estranged son, Mark.

    When Daniel tracks down a cult leader who may be their snakehead, SG1 with Jacob goes to try and root him out. They come across a father who's son, Tommy, has been sucked into the cult, and feels guilty that the rift in their relationship may have contributed to his son's entanglement.

    With some help from the President, Jack is given command of the ATF operation and Sam devises a way for the team to infiltrate the compound. When their ruse is discovered, they begin evacuating initiates with Tommy's help, who they have discovered and freed from Seth's mind control. Jacob/Selmak go in to provide back up and try to take down Seth. When Jacob is injured Sam is forced to take the goa'uld hand device and engage Seth. After a brief duel, Sam crushes him to death.

    Later Sam and Jacob go to Mark's house and begin the process of reconciliation.

    Favorite Scene
    Jacob and Jack meet with ATF agent Hamner in the command tent.

    Favorite Line

    Hamner: You have a rather insubordinate subordinate, General.

    Jacob: He's not insubordinate to me. Only to people such as yourself. Saves me the trouble.

    Generally
    This is the first Jacob/Selmak on a mission with the team episode. We did see them go on a short recon mission together in Show and Tell, but here the Tok'ra have sent Jacob to deal witha problem and he has recruited SG1 to assist him.

    The focus of this episode really is Jacob and his relationships with SG1, his son, and Selmak. We get a lot of interesting insights into many facets of his character.

    Jacob and the Team
    I really think Jacob's incorporation into the team is a highlight of this episode, and we see it right from the start. When Jacob comes through the gate at the beginning of the episode he greets every member of the team personally. We haven't seen that before. Up until now when Jacob arrives he greets Sam and usually has a few words for Hammond (the people he has a long standing relationship with). But I think, especially after his last experiences working with them fighting the Retu, he's started to see each member of SG1 as someone he respects and would consider a friend.

    As the episode goes on and we see Jacob hanging out in Daniel's office with the team, listening to Jaffa jokes, and strategizing together in the field it seems the team has taken Jacob in as one of theirs too. There's some great camraderie between them, especially the scene with Teal'c and Jacob in the command tent when they discuss the issue of loving one's children (a beautiful scene IMO).

    And I can't mention Jacob's relationship with the team without highlighting the Jacob/Jack dymanic because I just love these two together. Jack is clearly in charge, and Jacob understands that, but Hamner doesn't. Jacob handles it very well by defering to Jack and backing him up. You also get a bit of Jacob's snark, so similar to Jack. I can't help but see a number of layers in Jacob's remark about Jack not being insuboridinate to him. On a litteral level that statement is absolutely true. Jacob is retired and there as a Tok'ra representative. Jack is not his subordinate. And up to this point, Jack's been pretty respectful to Jacob. We see that change as they become closer. In fact, just a few scenes later Jack actually calls Jacob "Dad" to his face. (While he does continue to call him that when talking to Sam, I don't think he ever says it directly to Jacob again.) Interestingly, it doesn't phase Jacob a bit. I've always considered that Jacob believes (and probably rightly so) that he'll always have the upper hand when it comes to Jack (be it because of Jack's feelings for Sam, Jacob's superior experience and wisdom, or just his understanding into Jack's character, which is fairly similar to his own).

    Jacob and Selmak
    Once again we see a little of Selmak's forceful character and the effect she has on Jacob. And I think it's the only time we get to directly see into the relationship the two of them share. When Selmak says Jacob's unresolved issues with Mark are beginning to irritate her, you have to wonder how that can be. I don't see Jacob actually "conversing" with Selmak about it. But, of course, she is inside his head. So he must dwell on Mark and their issues with some frequency, and it must really bug Jacob that she knows that. He's spent his life repressing his emotions and hiding from his true feelings, and now he has someone he can't hide it from, and then she has the audacity to tell his daughter.

    When he denies what Selmak says about the hurt he felt when Mark wouldn't see him on his deathbed it is obvious to Sam (as it certainly should be) that he is not fooling anyone. Yet he continues to lie to himself (and Sam), probably because 1) he's never been forced to confront these emotions fully and truthfully before and Selmak won't back down, and 2) he doesn't know exactly what to do about the situation, and doesn't like being put in a situation he can't control.

    For I think the only time, we see some tension between Jacob and Selmak. He says she is the one who requested the mission from Garshaw. And he says she is pushing him to mend fences. And he is clearly pushing back, by showing his unwillingness to do so. But of course Selmak wins the point in the end.

    Jacob and His Family
    First I'll start with Jacob's relationship with Sam. They have clearly reached a much more comfortable place, but he is still not at ease talking with her openly about his feelings and the past. While the rift between him and Sam was never as great as it appears to be with Mark, Sam continues to suffer some of the effects of that estrangement because her brother has also chosen to shut her out (and it sounds like Sam may harbor some of her own resentment towards Mark for his actions).

    In the tunnels under Seth's compound we get something of a replay from the scene in Show and Tell where Jacob is shot and Sam must leave him and face their enemy alone. The first time, Sam was reluctant to leave because of her concern for her father, and she had to be ordered away by Selmak. This time, her reluctance has to do with her own abilities to work the hand device. After Selmak reassures her on this front she is able to leave her father without additional prompting. It shows the trust that she has developed in Selmak.

    I like that the final scene in front of Mark's house begins with Jacob and Sam sharing a long hug. It shows that the two of them have come to value and need one another's support, something Jacob certainly wouldn't have accepted before his blending with Selmak. It also says to me that they don't know what will happen with Mark, but no matter how it goes, they will have one another.

    We don't hear much directly about Jacob's relationship with Mark except that there is a pretty severe rift. He refused to even take Sam's calls when Jacob was dying. While Sam says she hasn't seen Mark since his kids were born she does have his contact information, and mentions the children in Cold Lazarus (saying she misses them and doesn't get to see them nearly enough). What we do have is the relationship between Mr. Levinson and his son Tommy that is clearly used as a stand in for Jacob and Mark's relationship. Listening to Levinson talk about how he grew apart from his son and his own regrets clearly register with Jacob. But I think the real game changer was the wisdom Teal'c imparts.

    Many things are complicated, General Carter. In Jaffa society, loving one's children is not one of them.

    And while Jacob comes back with the response that for humans sometimes it is; I'm not sure he really believes that. This prompts him to take that first step, to open himself up, both literally and figuratively, to his son at the end.
    Last edited by hlndncr; August 1st, 2010 at 03:52 PM.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Jacob Carter/Carmen Argenziano Thunk/Discussion/Appreciation

    Jolinar's Memories


    Summary
    Martouf and SG1 go to Netu, Sokar's very own, custom-made hell, to rescue Jacob and get vital intel that could prevent Sokar from wiping out the System Lords and becoming the supreme ruler of the galaxy. But the only escape from this inescapable prison is buried inside the memories left in Sam's mind when Jolinar died. When the team thinks they've found the means of escape, they are confronted with an old enemy returned to life—Apophis.

    Favorite Scene
    In the control room when Hammond tells Sam she will bring her father back and Jack jumps in and says, "Yes, Sir. We will."

    Favorite Line
    By all means. To hell with us.

    Generally
    Jacob doesn't actually come on the scene until near the end of the episode, and he hasn't much to say, but his predicament is the reason for the mission. And from it, we get a small peek at the work Jacob/Selmak do undercover, and a look at how the team has come to feel about Jacob. They are willing to put their lives on the line and do whatever it takes to bring him home. Yes, they are motivated by their relationship with Sam, but I think each member of the team has a genuine fondness for Jacob as well, and in many ways they consider him a fifth member of SG1. Jack and Hammond are just as determined to get Jacob back as Sam is, and later we see Daniel helping to care for him and Sam entrusting him to Jack’s care when she goes to confront Bynar.

    I also have to note that Jacob has had it pretty bad for the last few episodes. So far he’s been hit in the shoulder by a Retu weapon and knocked around by a goa’uld hand device, and now tortured by Sokar so badly that Selmak is dying.

    Jacob/Selmak and the Tok’ra
    We see here just how influential Selmak must be because the mission Jacob/Selmak has been given is so vital. It appears that they have been sent to infiltrate Sokar’s court because Jacob says that he saw Bynar there to report to Sokar four days before. We don’t know how long they were undercover or how they were discovered and captured. But considering the short amount of time he has been on it make me wonder what other operatives the Tok’ra may have had nearby to have discovered his capture and mount a rescue mission so quickly. Yet, they still weren’t in a position to have knowledge of the extent of Sokar’s fleet and battle plans, which Jacob discovered and needed to report. In fact, the first thing he does when discovered by Martouf and the team is share his intel, like the true soldier he is. When it looks like he maybe too weak to escape with the team, he wants them to leave him because he knows the intelligence he’s passed on is far more important than his life. This is another sign of the type of soldier he is; the mission comes first.

    We also see evidence that Martouf has kept his word to Sam and is watching out for her father. He is the one leading the rescue mission and he comes prepared with medicines that will aid Jacob/Selmak. It is clear that he is strongly motivated by his duty to the Tok'ra to get the information and pass it along, and there is the personal stake he has in understanding Jolinar's actions, but I also think he shows a great care and regard for Jacob here, which I think is partly motivated by his regard for Sam.

    Jacob’s Past
    We get a little tiny glimpse into Jacob’s past when Sam is trying to access Jolinar’s memories on the cargo ship and we see the day her mother dies. This scene isn’t fully explained or the implications of this event explored until the next episode, but I’m going to jump ahead here a little. At this point we don’t know the circumstances of the death of Sam’s mother, but we do see Jacob crying when he comes in and has to tell Sam about her mother’s death. We know Jacob is not one to show his emotions. The fact that he is crying demonstrates the deep bond he must have had with his wife. (And we know from the final scene in Show and Tell that he continues to wear his wedding ring many years after his wife’s death.)

    Now I’m going to go into a little unwarranted (well, at least not strongly justified) speculation. When the team is first thrown into the pit and Jacob here’s them he calls out. It’s hard to make out what he says. The transcript I’ve read indicates that he repeats Sam’s name. But that’s not what I heard. I heard, “Theia.” Now step into the looking glass with me for just a moment. We never learn the name of Sam’s mother, or what she looks like, or much of anything about her at all except that she died when Sam was a teenager. What if her name were Theia? Jacob is delirious and half-dead. He hears a voice that reminds him of his wife, assuming Sam looks and sounds a lot like her mother, and he calls for her. I just really like that idea. It’s a bit of a stretch, I know, but it creates such lovely possibilities in my imagination.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Jacob Carter/Carmen Argenziano Thunk/Discussion/Appreciation

    The Devil You Know



    Summary
    Apophis tortures the team for information and pleasure, while Jacob continues to fail. Sam is given a narcotic and has the memory device used against her. While in this drug induced state, she remembers a conversation with her father just after her mother’s death, and realizes it is a pivotal point in her life that has lead her and her father to this place. When the Tok’ra take action to destroy Netu, the team is able to use the chaos and destruction to assist in and cover their escape, with the help of some fancy flying by Teal’c.

    Generally
    We really don’t see much of Jacob in this episode. In the present, he is basically out of it. He is cared for by Sam and the team and carried to safety. We do get a little insight into what really matters to him. And it provides an interesting counter point to Sam’s memories of her father at the time of her mother’s death.
    When it looks like there is no escape, Jacob wants to tell Sam goodbye, but she won’t allow it. She reminds him of his grandchildren and begs him not to leave her to explain his death to them. This is enough to strengthen his resolve and get him through the next several hours or days as they wait for rescue or an opportunity to escape.

    When they finally do get back onto the cargo ship, Jacob suggests a father daughter vacation. I think this is significant because after such a close brush with death, Jacob realizes it was Sam and the thought of his family on earth that pulled him through. He has said that his family was the most important thing in his life (his life is over without Sam and her brother), but really for the first time he’s acting on it. This shows how much he’s changed and grown as a parent.

    Jacob’s Past
    It is hard to know how much of the memory we see of Sam and Jacob’s past is genuine. It is influenced by Sam’s experience and perceptions, and subject to Apophis’s manipulations, but I shall take as much of it as possible on face value.

    So we see pictures of Sam’s mother, and we see that Sam does take after her in appearance. We also learn how she dies and where Mark’s animosity comes from. Her mother was in a car accident when she was forced to take a cab because Jacob was late picking her up. It is never said explicitly, but presumably Jacob was held up at work. Mark blamed Jacob and likely also the military. It seems Sam did at first too, although she came to forgive her father and chose to join the military herself.

    It is interesting that Jacob says he doesn’t want to see what was most important to his wife die with her, but their family (certainly the most important thing) did break apart from this point. Sam’s decision to join the military may not have been solely a means to gain approval from her father, but a way to hold on to her mother as well by trying to hold the family together with this bond she and her father could have in common.

    As to Sam’s feelings toward her father, she may have forgiven him but I think she persisted in the notion that his work was more important to him. That may be why she tried to reach him through his work. And while he told her she and Mark were the most important things in his life; he certainly did not always act like it.

    You can also see how lost Sam was after the death of her mother. It is hard for a girl to lose her mother at anytime, but during the teenage years would be most especially painful. Jacob probably recognized how inadequate he was to the task of raising Sam alone, but did not really know what to do about it. It certainly left Sam very confused about how to handle relationships later in life.

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