We Are Both (202)

[GateWorld]

ONCE UPON A TIME - SEASON TWO WE ARE BOTH EPISODE NUMBER - 202 While Regina struggles to regain her powers, the town panics over a discovery made by the Dwarves at the border of Storybrooke. In the fairy tale world a younger Regina meets a man who promises freedom from her domineering mother. VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >>

[tomstone]

I really missed this Series. It is really great how they even spin the old FTL storylines further. Having Cora with Emma and Snow surely cant be a good thing, she will ultimately cross back over and then it might get ugly. I am very curios on how she ended up in that Jail cell after being sent to another world. Rumple is very specific when it comes to wording and he said she would be sent to a useless World to him.

Also weird to find out that the Mad Hatter is not the creator of the Hat. So if he is not, who did make it?

[Rocket_Scientist]

Great episode! There were a lot of twists and turns I didn't see coming, which kept me on the edge of my seat. It's been a while since I've watched a good edge-of-seat show. One question (that's really two tied together):
Why was Mr. Gold so upset about the line on the edge of town, and did it have something to do with Belle being absent from the episode? Did she leave Storybrooke in the last episode and I missed it somehow?

[TrueRomantic]

I really missed this Series. It is really great how they even spin the old FTL storylines further. Having Cora with Emma and Snow surely cant be a good thing, she will ultimately cross back over and then it might get ugly. I am very curios on how she ended up in that Jail cell after being sent to another world. Rumple is very specific when it comes to wording and he said she would be sent to a useless World to him.

Also weird to find out that the Mad Hatter is not the creator of the Hat. So if he is not, who did make it?

I don't know that Cora will cross back over, at least with them, but I agree it can't be good. If I remember right, Snow met Cora when Regina was engaged to the king, so I'm hoping Snow wakes up before Emma can make any sort of deal with Cora. I think maybe, instead of being sent to another world, she was sent to another part of their world. Or maybe she was even frozen in the mirror, but the "survivors" broke the mirror, on purpose or by accident, and released her only to throw her in jail. Or perhaps, if she was sent to a world useless to Rumple, he merely meant an edge of their own world that didn't matter to him and where she wouldn't be able to bother him. Or, maybe she was sent to wherever the ogres and such were, but the curse somehow released them all. That could explain how in the clip for next week they talked about the ogres being "back" as if they had disappeared. They could have been banished to another world and released by the magic of the curse.

I really must need to watch the episode again, because I don't recall the Mad Hatter saying he wasn't the creator of the hat, simply that he couldn't fix the hat. And we'd seen that before. I think the problem is that Emma is not only the curse breaker, but the bringer of magic. Regina wasn't able to make the hat work until Emma touched her, and after Emma was gone, Regina's magic went away again. The Mad Hatter had kidnapped Emma in an effort to get her to make the hat work. So I think it's more that he created the hat, in the magic rich FTL, but he can't fix it or recreate it in the magic poor Storybrooke, at least not without Emma's help.

Great episode! There were a lot of twists and turns I didn't see coming, which kept me on the edge of my seat. It's been a while since I've watched a good edge-of-seat show. One question (that's really two tied together):
Why was Mr. Gold so upset about the line on the edge of town, and did it have something to do with Belle being absent from the episode? Did she leave Storybrooke in the last episode and I missed it somehow?

I have a couple of different thoughts about this. I think that it is possible the man we saw in the city at the start of the season opener could be Bael, Rumple's son. I think, if that is the case, Rumple was hoping to be able to leave Storybrooke and find Bael. I don't think Belle is gone. Rumple also may have just wanted to escape with Belle and leave Storybrooke to it's own devices, but now that he knows memories are lost, he won't want to risk Belle forgetting again, even if he remembers everything. Either way, I assumed he was planning to leave Storybrooke because of all the maps and/or travel brochures he had packed away, but finding out about the memory loss means he can't take anyone with him. It's also possible he could lose his memory, though since he knew his identity all along, I don't know if that would hold true. But he could be upset because he can't take Belle with him.

I also wondered if, since leaving town means people with regained memories lose those memories again, maybe entering town while having memories might also make you lose them. It wouldn't have affected August because the curse hadn't been broken, but now that it is, the magic might be wonky at the barrier, causing it to act as a reset, no matter which way you cross the barrier.

That could be another reason Rumple was upset, if the city man was in fact Bael. It would mean Bael wouldn't be able to cross into Storybrooke without being affected.

[Silversi]

I like how they're having Regina play out her story. The darkness is calling out to her, but she has pin pricks of light in her that cause her to resist. she doesn't want to be like her mother, but she's steadily leaning more towards that direction. I wonder if slowly but surely in Storybrooke if she'll be able to start redeeming herself. Giving up Henry to Charming was a good start. A small pinprick of light can widen to a larger hole. Now if only Cora will stay in the Far Away Kingdom and not return with Emma and Snow...maybe Regina will have a fighting chance to not be a complete evil....something or other.

[majorsal]

really enjoyed the ep!!

my fave part was regina talking to henry on the stairs. i wish henry would have looked back at her, though, when he was walking away.

this is my fave relationship of the series.

[the fifth man]

This show definitely knows how to keep things compelling. The emergence of Regina's mother is going to be so bad for so many.

[jeri]

Great episode! There were a lot of twists and turns I didn't see coming, which kept me on the edge of my seat. It's been a while since I've watched a good edge-of-seat show. One question (that's really two tied together):
Why was Mr. Gold so upset about the line on the edge of town, and did it have something to do with Belle being absent from the episode? Did she leave Storybrooke in the last episode and I missed it somehow?

Belle didn't leave. Mr. Gold was planning a trip to find his son Bae, hence all the maps. He had stated in an earlier episode that he was planning a trip. Now he sees that he can't leave without losing his memory. He did not have memory until Emma came to town and he heard her name, in the first episode. Regina was the only one who had memory until then. He made the curse, and manipulated Regina into using it, but now he finds out that there are a few unexpected "side effects". No wonder he was so upset and smashed the glass cabinets in his shop. The whole reason for him making the curse was to get to this world where Bae is, so what will he do now?

[Rocket_Scientist]

Belle didn't leave. Mr. Gold was planning a trip to find his son Bae, hence all the maps. He had stated in an earlier episode that he was planning a trip. Now he sees that he can't leave without losing his memory. He did not have memory until Emma came to town and he heard her name, in the first episode. Regina was the only one who had memory until then. He made the curse, and manipulated Regina into using it, but now he finds out that there are a few unexpected "side effects". No wonder he was so upset and smashed the glass cabinets in his shop. The whole reason for him making the curse was to get to this world where Bae is, so what will he do now?

Aha! I knew I was missing something fairly obvious. Everything makes so much more sense now, thanks. I still wonder where Belle was that whole time, though....

[jeri]

Aha! I knew I was missing something fairly obvious. Everything makes so much more sense now, thanks. I still wonder where Belle was that whole time, though....

I record the ep so I can watch it again when the kid is at school. She comments and asks questions through the whole thing, so I need to rewatch! Otherwise...I miss important stuff like that too.

If I were Belle, I would first be luxuriating in a long hot bath, then raiding Gold's refigerator and then perhaps enjoying my freedom with a nice walk in the fresh air. Hey, the girl's been locked in a padded cell for 28 years, she needs it!

[Mrja84]

Rumpel always knew who he was. He never thought he was Mr. Gold.

I thought it was interesting that Rumpel didn't anticipate that.

[Lord Kira]

Rumpel always knew who he was. He never thought he was Mr. Gold.

I thought it was interesting that Rumpel didn't anticipate that.

Rumpelstiltskin did have fake memories. He didn't remember who he was until the pilot, the moment Emma gave him her name.

[TrueRomantic]

Rumpelstiltskin did have fake memories. He didn't remember who he was until the pilot, the moment Emma gave him her name.

I'd have to rewatch to be certain, but I'm pretty sure Rumple always knew who he was. He, as Mr. Gold, is the one who procured baby Henry for Regina to adopt. It can't be a coincidence that he gave Regina the son of the baby destined to break the curse. I find it more likely that Rumple knew what happened to Emma the second she was placed into foster care, and followed her life after that. That would enable him to find Henry when he was put up for adoption, and it would ensure he'd be able to attract Emma to fulful her destiny if Henry hadn't been born and he had to find another way to get her to Storybrooke.

[jelgate]

I see nothing to indicate that Rumplstiltskin didn't know who was until Emma showed up. Until shown otherwise I have to go with he always knew about curse.

[jeri]

Hey, the creators of the show said that Rumple DID NOT know until Emma came, they said this in an interview. Remember the first ep where Gold comes and meets Emma for the first time, he repeats her name. This reminds us of when he was in the prison in FTL he asked Snow what her unborn child's name was, this is of course is why he wanted to know at that time, he worked that cue into the curse for his use.

He may have planned not to remember, so as to not have to wait 28 years, giving himself a break perhaps? Or, it's an unforeseen side effect. In this ep Rumple/Gold didn't know about the fact he would lose his memory if he left town. Obviously, there are side effects with magic that aren't predictable. I believe Rumple has said this himself earlier.

I'll try to find the interview later. I have to leave for the day soon.

[jelgate]

Canon or its not true. Writers disagree on the less explained elements of a story all the time. Or they could have just flat out lied. The BSG writers did that a lot. So unless it is shown in the episode I would go with what makes sense which is Rumplestiltskin/Mr. Golc always knew about the curse

[Mrja84]

Canon or its not true. Writers disagree on the less explained elements of a story all the time. Or they could have just flat out lied. The BSG writers did that a lot. So unless it is shown in the episode I would go with what makes sense which is Rumplestiltskin/Mr. Golc always knew about the curse

Agreed, it has to be mentioned or shown in the show otherwise, it's just one person's interpretation. Regardless of that person's position on the show.

How then was it that Rumpel happened to get Emma's child adopted by Regina?

How was it then that anyone knew someone (such as the guy in the season 2 premiere) who lived outside of Storybrooke to send them a postcard when the spell broke?

Also, they still have left out any explanation of what life inside Storybrooke was like before Emma arrived. Storybrooke could have visitors as shown by Henry, Emma, and August arriving. Not to mention supplies the town needs (has anyone seen a farm?).

What tipped Henry off that something was wrong about the town before he got the book?

There definitely seems to be a contrast between Henry's claim that time was standing still and the fact that he could get books from his teacher, have a therapist that recalled all their sessions, etc.

[jeri]

The creators of the show, Adam Horowitz and Edward Kitsis wrote the first episode as well as other episodes and have creative control. They said he did not know until he heard Emma's name. That is all I need to know. There are many things left unexplained for us to speculate, and I think that's their plan, to keep us engaged. And doing what we're doing here.

[Mrja84]

The creators of the show, Adam Horowitz and Edward Kitsis wrote the first episode as well as other episodes and have creative control. They said he did not know until he heard Emma's name. That is all I need to know. There are many things left unexplained for us to speculate, and I think that's their plan, to keep us engaged. And doing what we're doing here.

No offense, but proof?

[jeri]

No offense, but proof?

When I'm done with this project, I'll find the video interview for you. It's on YouTube and the OUAT fan site has a collection of those interview vids.

I'm not offended by your question, I just find it amusing, I would not make it up, nor do I say something definitively without accurate recall.