The Angels Take Manhattan (3305/705)

[fumblesmcstupid]

I was watching "Time of the Angels" last night and River said that the angel (on the tape) had been in a private collection until the last century. *oh crap* what if that angel is the one Grayle had and is the one that sent Amy/Rory back in time?

[Quizziard]

I was watching "Time of the Angels" last night and River said that the angel (on the tape) had been in a private collection until the last century. *oh crap* what if that angel is the one Grayle had and is the one that sent Amy/Rory back in time?

Because "Time of the Angels" is probably set in the 51st century? [Most River episodes are...]

[Wildrose-Wally]

Please don't watch this if you haven't seen "The Angels take Manhattan" episode of Doctor Who yet!!

Doctor Who: P.S. - Series 7 2012 - BBC One

[Morgania]

The scene that should have been. That was nice.

[Roach]

I finally watched the episode last nite. Been putting it off since I knew something was going to happen with Amy and Rory although I did not know what.

I agree with much of what's been said already.... I don't understand why the Doctor couldnt go back to another point in time to get them, but whatever. Not my rules.

It took make a while to get used to the new Doctor and the Ponds... I've always been like that... so I'm sure it will take me a while to get used to his new companion....

All in all not bad. Hopefully we will still see River from time to time...

I wonder how many vortex manipulaters there are.... River has one.. Jack has one.. It would definitely come in handy. :-)

[Flyboy]

I finally watched the episode last nite. Been putting it off since I knew something was going to happen with Amy and Rory although I did not know what.

I agree with much of what's been said already.... I don't understand why the Doctor couldnt go back to another point in time to get them, but whatever. Not my rules.

It took make a while to get used to the new Doctor and the Ponds... I've always been like that... so I'm sure it will take me a while to get used to his new companion....

All in all not bad. Hopefully we will still see River from time to time...

I wonder how many vortex manipulaters there are.... River has one.. Jack has one.. It would definitely come in handy. :-)

Who says that River hasn't got Jack's?

[Roach]

Good point. It could be his.... and the way she jumps around the timeline it would be impossible to line up the dates of when they used it.

I hope they do another crossover or something... I miss TW.

[Morgania]

When did Jack loose his? I thought she got it from the wrist of a time agent (one that was missing an arm.)

[Flyboy]

When did Jack loose his? I thought she got it from the wrist of a time agent (one that was missing an arm.)

He hasn't... (yet)

[Crazedwraith]

There's no reason the beleive that there is one Vortex Manipulator in the entirity of time of space. Jack's was never indicated to be special. In fact quite the opposite, seems to have been standard Time Agent equipment.

Equally no reason afaik that River's VM is Jack's.

[skydawn]

I just watch this episode and I was almost in tears. No more Amy and Rory? Crazedwraith will hate me for saying this, but I loved how involved River was in this episode. This is the first episode where River and the Doctor actually act as husband and wife!!! It was so sweet to see them holding hands and staying close to one another. I also loved that he asked her to travel with him!

[skydawn]

1. So that detective just got sent back in time from 1938 to hell knows when?

2. River Song as an old pulp detective - not so bad!

3. "Do not go Yowsa!"

4. I've never seen the Dr quite as gooey over River before!

5. Statue of Liberty as an Angel is a bit OTT though!

6. RIP Ponds, suppose there are worse ways to go!

I just thought I comment on your post, because of #4. I just made a post about this! I loved the concept though. For once he acted like he was in love with her. It made my heart smile. And SPOILER *that he asked her to travel with him*....so amazing!

[skydawn]

Is the Doctor erasing mention of himself everywhere or is that Oswin from episode 1 I wonder? Like River said in this episode everywhere she goes any mention of him is being erased?

I think that was in reference to Oswin. Since she erased the Doctors name from the Dalek database and they are his oldest enemies, maybe it's connected?

[skydawn]

I've watched it twice. This was a difficult episode to watch given what happens to the characters. I'll start off with the criticisms first since I want to end the review with the positives.

Negatives

• The surrounding area. This is a small nitpick, but since local residents are somewhat aware of Winter Quay's sinister nature, I couldn't help but wonder if any of them have informed the authorities of what may be going on there. Then again, any police sent there likely disappear along with the other unfortunates that visit the place. That, and who in 1938 would believe anybody's story about moving statues? Still, you've got an entire apartment building where people are mysteriously disappearing. That's bound to attract some seriously unwanted attention for the Angels. How can they get away with a major operation like this without anyone noticing? Who the owns the building anyway? Grayle?
• Winter Quay's interior. The Angels must be very good at housekeeping as the interior seems quite well-maintained. They must also have some typing skills since the names of various prisoners are on the walls. The only other explanation is that they must have a human servant working for them? That seems unlikely though.
• The Statue of Liberty. First, I must say, I love the Moff's writing. I loved Blink, and most of his episodes before and after RTD's departure. Having said that, I just have to ask, how many shots of Scotch did he drink to include Lady Liberty in this episode? I mean, come on. Like many other people here, I did not like the statue's role in this story. There's nothing wrong with hyperbole, but resorting to this kind of hyperbole... come on, Moff. You can do better than that. This isn't Ghostbusters and Lady Liberty ain't the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man. I've always been a big proponent of realism and there's only so much suspension of disbelief I can stand before I just scowl. Something as big as the Statue of Liberty not being seen in New York? The implausibility is grating.
• The Detroit Lions Win the Superbowl. No. Just... no. Those who are attentive to detail will notice the newspaper headline when Amy and the Doctor are at Central Park. Having said that, the chances of the Detroit Lions winning a Superbowl are about as likely as the Chicago Cubs winning a World Series trophy... two years in a row. For those who are not in the know, the Chicago Cubs haven't won a championship in over a century and the Lions haven't won a Superbowl since 1957. *sigh* I find the existence of time paradoxes more probable than either of those teams winning any championship.
• The reading glasses. Ugh. I've always disliked glasses. Contact lenses are much better.
• New York Geography. So, the Doctor and Amy get from Central Park and then way across downtown Manhattan near Times Square, and then all the way to the shoreline near the George Washington Bridge in a couple of sentences. Hmm... *shakes head* My Aunt Celeste lives in Queens so I'm pretty familiar with NYC's geography.

Positives

• The opening titles. I haven't really liked any of the opening titles for series 7 except this one. The black vortex, foreboding lightning, and then transitioning to a ghostly greenish white was very effective.
  
• Winter Quay's interior. OK, it's very unlikely that the Angels are good housekeepers, but nonetheless, the effect of the interior lighting and choice of colors is disturbing: Blood red carpet and walls, creaking floor, brooding and subdued lobby and stairwells, automated elevator and of course, Weeping Angels lurking in the dark. Yeah, you have to suspend your disbelief a little in order to wrap your head around a place like Winter Quay but visually, it truly is frightening. If such an interior existed in real life, I would not walk around a place like that without being heavily armed.
• The typewriter in the background. As someone who writes for both pleasure and for work-related reasons, I loved it.
• The Sting Song. OK, Sting isn't exactly my favorite but given how appropriate the lyrics were, it fit the opening perfectly.
• Amy: "She's got ice in her heart, a kiss on her lips, and a vulnerable side she keeps well-hidden."
• The Melody Malone book. Unlike River, I actually liked the cover. Plus, it's a brilliant plot device for time travel-related issues.
• The Cherubs. I've disliked Cherubs for many years now, though I'm not even sure why. Thank you Moff for transforming something I dislike into a wonderfully chilling predator. The footsteps in the dark, the sharp teeth, and the sadistic childish laughter... excellent villains.
• River. I can't help but wonder what she's doing in 1938 to begin with but when I saw her face, I just smiled from ear to ear. I know some fans dislike her large number of appearances in series 6 but I have missed her. Her moments with the Doctor--especially hiding her wounds, emotional damage, and not allowing the Doctor to see her age--all absolutely riveting for me and added wonderful depth to her character.
• The Paradox. The idea of defying destiny and thwarting the Weeping Angels with a temporal paradox was a brilliant piece of writing, in my opinion. There's many, many layers of subtext and symbolism I could expound upon with the paradox, but to me, Amy & Rory's decisions in creating a paradox and unraveling the Angels' timeline speaks about the power of our choices. Their jump... wow. Combined with the music and everything else that was happening, the jump was incredible. The glowing effect for the paradox was nicely done too.
• A fixed point in time. I knew the moment I saw Rory's name on the gravestone early on in the episode that we were dealing with a fixed point in time. The Cherub near the fountain (which sent Rory back to 1938 in the first place) and the last Angel in the graveyard were likely the only survivors of the unraveled timeline, otherwise NY City would be littered with Angelic survivors. Those two Angels were likely part of the causal chain of events comprising the fixed point in time where Amy & Rory are sent back into the past.
• Amy, Rory, and the Doctor. All three were in top form. As Amy & Rory are my favorite companions (with Martha just behind), I will miss them greatly. I feel bad for Rory's dad though. Will the Doctor ever tell him what happened, I wonder? Matt Smith really delivered with this episode, demonstrating a vast emotional range for the Doctor. His rage at discovering Amy's farewell chapter, his despair at losing the people he loved the most, and his usual bubbly enthusiasm, was all wonderful to watch.
• Murray Gold's soundtrack. My goodness, the soundtrack for this episode broke my heart, especially the big leap for Amy & Rory and Amy deciding to let the angel send her back into the past. Musically, it was some of the best I've heard for the show, with an intensity matching tracks like The Sad Man With a Box and Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart. I'm grabbing the soundtrack for series 7 the moment it becomes available.
• The final shot of a young Amelia Pond changing into a sepia tone. Goodness, that floored me. The finality of that shot was powerful.

Despite some problems with the episode, I absolutely loved it. I thought it was a great send-off for the two longest tenured companions for the Doctor in recent years. They took up a large portion of the Eleventh Doctor's life, filling over 300 years of his personal timeline. Souffle Girl has some big shoes to fill.

I totally agree with you! Especially concerning River!

[Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel]

I haven't seen this episode since it first aired, so I don't remember a lot. But I still hate the ending. I loved the episode! Most of it was awesome! I just can't stand how they left Amy and Rory. Heck, I don't even mind that they stayed in NYC. But the fact that they can never see the Doctor again? Not to mention Rory's dad and Amy's parents? I can't stand that!

It'd have been a much better exit if they'd just decided last week that their real life is more important to them than travelling with the Doctor.

Rather the same 'i'll never ever leave you doctor, unless something terrible happens.' 'next week: some thing terrible happnes' Approach they used with Rose and Donna.

Suddenly I have much more respect for Martha who at least managed to say 'its be fun but i'm going now' to the Doctor.

I totally agree! They could have just stayed home most of the time, and maybe went on "holiday" with the Doctor every now and then. One way they could have done it realistically is if they adopted a baby. They were obviously devastated that Amy can't have any more kids, but they can still have a chance to raise children. And that would make a good excuse not to travel with the Doctor anymore. Which would actually go along great with how the Doctor is Amy's "imaginary friend"...she grew up and her responsibilities as a mother now force her to give up her imaginary friend. It could be a metaphor for settling down and giving up traveling with the Doctor.

Perhaps now we have an explanation for little girl River going to New York in 1969.

Hey! Good point! That would be awesome if they had a mini-episode or a side-story showing River as a little girl getting to live with her parents! Heck, they could even get to raise her after all. Then maybe after they die she goes to Leadworth to grow up with them again (this time alongside them), and Amy talking about her "imaginary friend" is what triggers Melody's (River's) brainwashing and that's why she starts acting all wild and becomes obsessed with the Doctor.