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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Revolution ( NBC) : News/Speculation/General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
    Because of the situation at hand; even if they lose the tech, the guns they have still work and they can find ways to utilize the tank shells without having electricity; they're not completely powerless if they lose the tech.
    Yes its not like there are any example of when the power goes out for a few hours that people DON'T start looting...

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Revolution ( NBC) : News/Speculation/General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    Yes its not like there are any example of when the power goes out for a few hours that people DON'T start looting...
    Still... Even if they start looting (and considering the security of some of the stores out there today, even if the power goes out.) and start getting better weapons; they're not going to get overpowered by the onslaught. They know what to do and they know how to communicate with each other during such incidents, quanity = equal quality.

    And there was an incident in LA where the power was out for a few days and nobody looted within the first few hours from my knowledge, I doubt they'd start looting instantly but they would get uneasy about the situation when after a few days the power isn't going to be coming back on.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Revolution ( NBC) : News/Speculation/General Discussion



    People go crazy enough when we have the means to properly recover and rebuild after a disaster. If you, quite literally, flip a switch and "turn off" civilization one night, people are going to panic (understatment)
    Do they, I did not see people go crazy in Japan Earth Quake, or Haiti, or in fact that 2004 India sea earth Quake, or a better example would the massive black out of new york city that happen a few years ago.
    Katrina did drove some people go insane but that appears to be exception to the rule rather than the rule. Most humans pull together in a crisis and help each other out, these far out weigh the individualistic people in society, who are either frozen or come round to the group thinking.
    Last edited by knowles2; May 22nd, 2012 at 06:52 AM.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Revolution ( NBC) : News/Speculation/General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by knowles2 View Post
    Do they, I did not see people go crazy in Japan Earth Quake, or Haiti, or in fact that 2004 India sea earth Quake, or a better example would the massive black out of new york city that happen a few years ago.
    I have to full-heatedly agree with him. I mean even in a show like this, they wouldn't go insane because of the lack of technology just as a full government collapse wouldn't be possible.

    Though people are waiting for the show to see what happens, I'm certain the show will fail for these reasons. Over-exaggeration of government collapse and consequences for plot reasons (which people ,will try to justify), the entire power draining thing being convoluted (some people say it's a surge but from my looks of it, it seems like something's preventing an electrical charge from forming; the show may provide some explanation on this but still, it convoluted even if explained.), the theatrics lacking substance and the lack of compelling characters. It does look good but then again anything can look good, it does look science-fictiony but true science-fiction to me is exploring the unknown, taking risks, raising questions that people will linger on for years, actually showing what can be possible and daring to be different. This is just following the trends and favoring style over substance which most sci-fi movies and some series have done in recent times. Both audiences will be disappointed.

    I swear some truly innovative, intellectual and offbeat person needs to step up to the plate and create a sci-fi series; the truly innovative and the truly offbeat people are the ones who manage to think of stuff we never could think of and if that person can create something sci-fi that truly goes where no man has gone before then he might just resurrect sci-fi as we speak.

  5. #45

    Default Re: Revolution ( NBC) : News/Speculation/General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
    I have to full-heatedly agree with him. I mean even in a show like this, they wouldn't go insane because of the lack of technology just as a full government collapse wouldn't be possible.
    The examples being referred to are indeed major incidents, but they only affected a certain city or geographical area. The reason people pulled together so well in those instances was partly because they had the full country's support as well as the rest of the world. What happens when there is no support for anyone? The best example would be, what if the New York blackouts weren't just in New York, but in the whole country? Or the entire world? Would the response have been the same?

    The show is focusing on a global incident which affects absolutely everyone. I'm not sure about the 'realism' of this show, though from the trailer, there do appear to be some questionable aspects. The point is, anyone who creates these types of shows that focus on global incidents can pretty much create the world however they want since there is no benchmark to compare to in our history.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Revolution ( NBC) : News/Speculation/General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
    Still... Even if they start looting (and considering the security of some of the stores out there today, even if the power goes out.) and start getting better weapons; they're not going to get overpowered by the onslaught. They know what to do and they know how to communicate with each other during such incidents, quanity = equal quality.

    And there was an incident in LA where the power was out for a few days and nobody looted within the first few hours from my knowledge, I doubt they'd start looting instantly but they would get uneasy about the situation when after a few days the power isn't going to be coming back on.
    Yes but, lets take for example me. I'm sitting in my room, suddenly the power goes out. Fair enough, but my laptop does not work either. Weird but maybe the blackout fried it. Grab my ipod to listen to music, it does not work, maybe the battery died. Pick up my phone to play a game, it too does not work. Things start to get weird. I leave my room, with the card reader unable to let me back into my room. I go outside, other people are claiming that their phones are dead and cars wont start. Now I start to feel a little freaked out.

    After five days I would be very worried, no emergency services have been heard from, without cars they would have difficulty moving about. Food begins to run low and cooking meat etc is difficult to do. I grab what money i have and head to the store to try to buy something, however the owner does not let anyone in, as he has no way to know and add prices, people start freaking out and yelling. Suddenly the door is busted open and people start grabbing stuff. What should I do, sit around and judge the others, no i grab some stuff and run for it.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Revolution ( NBC) : News/Speculation/General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by magictrick View Post
    What happens when there is no support for anyone? The best example would be, what if the New York blackouts weren't just in New York, but in the whole country? Or the entire world? Would the response have been the same?
    In my opinion, yes... While it effects everybody, the people in the area think that it's local and would result in the same bonding together as the other incidents; and though the county (or government) may not be as efficient as before, they'd still be able to help.

    Quote Originally Posted by magictrick View Post
    The point is, anyone who creates these types of shows that focus on global incidents can pretty much create the world however they want since there is no benchmark to compare to in our history.
    There may be no benchmark but that doesn't mean they can't utilize more effort to build the world that they want; ie actually researching the governments instead of claiming that they fell due to lack of electricity.

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    Yes but, lets take for example me. I'm sitting in my room, suddenly the power goes out. Fair enough, but my laptop does not work either. Weird but maybe the blackout fried it. Grab my ipod to listen to music, it does not work, maybe the battery died. Pick up my phone to play a game, it too does not work. Things start to get weird. I leave my room, with the card reader unable to let me back into my room. I go outside, other people are claiming that their phones are dead and cars wont start. Now I start to feel a little freaked out.
    Just like Tom Cruise in War of the Worlds.

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    After five days I would be very worried, no emergency services have been heard from, without cars they would have difficulty moving about.
    They could still be heard from, (though the difficulty part is noted) and the local government of the city can still organize a meeting to gather the town together and discuss what's wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    Food begins to run low and cooking meat etc is difficult to do.
    If the gas pipes still work than you could use those and flames to ignite the stove and cook food. Additionally you can also create a fire to cook your food on if you've kept gasoline or matches (or more rarely, the ability to use flint rock to actually start fires)

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    I grab what money i have and head to the store to try to buy something, however the owner does not let anyone in, as he has no way to know and add prices
    This is why price tags exist; people need to know how much things cost, otherwise there'd be lots of instances where they'd bring the item to a cashier or a scanner just to know how much it would cost. though there'd be no way to figure out the global demand for prices during a blackout, he can still locally modify prices by changing the price tag; though unfairness does play some part here.

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    people start freaking out and yelling. Suddenly the door is busted open and people start grabbing stuff. What should I do, sit around and judge the others, no i grab some stuff and run for it.
    I understand if they didn't let people in but for not knowing how to know and add prices, doubtful. Riots usually start randomly, either out of anger or due to some issue where someone isn't getting the help they need and the people just join in because hey, if one guy is doing it, why can't we? I can't exactly pinpoint which riots become logical (as in for survival) or senseless (just random looting without any survival purpose whatsoever.) but the riot mentality exists.

    I still doubt that the blackout would cause them to loot and riot; unless there was something that drove them over the edge but that would have to be extremely sudden in a coordinated world like this.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Revolution ( NBC) : News/Speculation/General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
    In my opinion, yes... While it effects everybody, the people in the area think that it's local and would result in the same bonding together as the other incidents; and though the county (or government) may not be as efficient as before, they'd still be able to help.
    You seem to think its the same as a simple power cut. My laptop, phone, MP3 player and everything else i own that runs on batteries, still work during a power cut. Cars and backup generators still work. Planes falling from the sky (living near an airport, thats something i'd notice) isnt something that happens during a power cut and anyone with half a brain could tell that something is seriously wrong if all that started happening; not simply believe it a local blackout.
    Less efficient? As with governments, they (emergency services, people in general etc) wouldnt know where to go to help, or what to help with. Nothing works. How are firemen to get to fires and put them out? How are hospitals going to function without any power? Especially at night. How are the police or military going to keep control when they have no way of knowing where the trouble is, or have the means to get there in anything close to reasonable time? Same goes for ambulances. They would probably kill to simply be "less efficient".



    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
    There may be no benchmark but that doesn't mean they can't utilize more effort to build the world that they want; ie actually researching the governments instead of claiming that they fell due to lack of electricity.
    Governments can govern now because they have the means to do so, take away that means and they cease to govern.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
    Just like Tom Cruise in War of the Worlds.
    Theres an accurate depiction of what would happen....


    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
    They could still be heard from, (though the difficulty part is noted) and the local government of the city can still organize a meeting to gather the town together and discuss what's wrong.
    How would you hear from them? How are they to know where they're needed, get there and be able to help? You'd need to bump into them in the street.
    Effective, efficient communication would be needed to organize such a meeting. The whole city or town (unless very small) wouldnt know of this meeting, and no one would know what was wrong. Local governments are useless enough already.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
    If the gas pipes still work than you could use those and flames to ignite the stove and cook food. Additionally you can also create a fire to cook your food on if you've kept gasoline or matches (or more rarely, the ability to use flint rock to actually start fires)
    And what happens to the pipelines when SCADA goes offline?
    Pipeline operation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
    This is why price tags exist; people need to know how much things cost, otherwise there'd be lots of instances where they'd bring the item to a cashier or a scanner just to know how much it would cost. though there'd be no way to figure out the global demand for prices during a blackout, he can still locally modify prices by changing the price tag; though unfairness does play some part here.


    I understand if they didn't let people in but for not knowing how to know and add prices, doubtful. Riots usually start randomly, either out of anger or due to some issue where someone isn't getting the help they need and the people just join in because hey, if one guy is doing it, why can't we? I can't exactly pinpoint which riots become logical (as in for survival) or senseless (just random looting without any survival purpose whatsoever.) but the riot mentality exists.

    How are people going to pay exactly? Withdraw money from the bank? Cos they're gonna need cash, and lots of it. Cards are no good anymore. Tills wont work either.
    Riots and looting will ensue. Tempers will flare. People will want to "defend" there own and "protect" whats theirs. Mob rule.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
    I still doubt that the blackout would cause them to loot and riot; unless there was something that drove them over the edge but that would have to be extremely sudden in a coordinated world like this.
    People will loot and riot if they see the opportunity to do so. The recent UK riots are an example of that.
    Need for food, clean water, fule etc are perfect reasons for people to go over the edge. The event doesnt happen gradually, its sudden. Someone hits the off switch.


  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
    They could still be heard from, (though the difficulty part is noted) and the local government of the city can still organize a meeting to gather the town together and discuss what's wrong.
    First a politician would have to get to their building, meet with the other politicians, divide up tasks, get their aides to run these tasks out (its the city, there are no horse and carts roaming about). You'd need a large area to aspeak at, but then people too would need the means to get there, if they have to walk 15 km they probably won't bother, just send one person per street to find out and report back. Even then, the government would just have to say, keep calm. Thats all they can do.

    If the gas pipes still work than you could use those and flames to ignite the stove and cook food. Additionally you can also create a fire to cook your food on if you've kept gasoline or matches (or more rarely, the ability to use flint rock to actually start fires)
    I heard a story here at uni about a guy who, when the power was out just waited for it to come back on to eat. People are going to refuse to cook any other way and resort to stealing simple food from others. Yes we would make a fire and cook our meat, but we would have to cook it all and it wouldn't last too long after that.

    This is why price tags exist; people need to know how much things cost, otherwise there'd be lots of instances where they'd bring the item to a cashier or a scanner just to know how much it would cost. though there'd be no way to figure out the global demand for prices during a blackout, he can still locally modify prices by changing the price tag; though unfairness does play some part here.

    I understand if they didn't let people in but for not knowing how to know and add prices, doubtful. Riots usually start randomly, either out of anger or due to some issue where someone isn't getting the help they need and the people just join in because hey, if one guy is doing it, why can't we? I can't exactly pinpoint which riots become logical (as in for survival) or senseless (just random looting without any survival purpose whatsoever.) but the riot mentality exists.
    Yes but the cashier is either tasked with walking to check the prices, writing down all the prices in the store and then have to manually add them up on the spot (the average person is terrible at such a thing) or just take the customers word on the price. The second people start having to pay $50/litre water they will get desperate, push each other and the riot has begun.

    I still doubt that the blackout would cause them to loot and riot; unless there was something that drove them over the edge but that would have to be extremely sudden in a coordinated world like this.
    In my hometown, a massive storm blew in and cut off the power, within seconds, people were knocking down an old security guard, grabbing food and running for it. People love getting something for nothing, and generally take the opportunity to do so.


    An example of how the government/food stores would cease to work after long: A store is selling corn, they normally get in three crates on horse and cart taking two weeks between shipments, suddenly refugees, fleeing the bigger cities arrive, willing to sell their gold and other items for food. The store owner would need to wait four weeks for food, by then people have died of starvation. We rely on communication more than electricity to get things done, without it, we'd need to train a lots of messenger pigeons....unfortunately hungry people have eaten all the pigeons.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Revolution ( NBC) : News/Speculation/General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    You seem to think its the same as a simple power cut. My laptop, phone, MP3 player and everything else i own that runs on batteries, still work during a power cut. Cars and backup generators still work. Planes falling from the sky (living near an airport, thats something i'd notice) isnt something that happens during a power cut and anyone with half a brain could tell that something is seriously wrong if all that started happening; not simply believe it a local blackout.
    Even if the people noticed the planes falling from the sky (which would be rare unless the area was a popular airplane destination), they would still think it's local. Hell they would even try to find out whether or not other cities have the same thing happening to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    Less efficient? As with governments, they (emergency services, people in general etc) wouldnt know where to go to help, or what to help with. Nothing works.
    That doesn't mean there are ways to help out, hence the reason why there are a equivalent amount of ways to help without using technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    How are firemen to get to fires and put them out?
    Without electricity there would be no lights, no lights means the ability to see natural light (especially stars) better, hence the ability to notice fires.

    Or they could place up a tower and use signals; I mean people have used signals without electricity by using fire and mirrors...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    How are hospitals going to function without any power? Especially at night.
    They still have the supplies to do so, they just don't have the ability to detect a heartbeat or even do complex operational stuff. (making it much more difficult but not impossible.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    How are the police or military going to keep control when they have no way of knowing where the trouble is, or have the means to get there in anything close to reasonable time?
    No electricity also means no noise therefore noises (especially riot noises) would be more noticeable to the police; and the police have the means, it's called running. Police are usually fast on their feat, not letting up until either the other person tires out or they do; which for the police officer is more rare.

    Or they could borrow horses from the populace.

    Same thing I said about the tower applies here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    Same goes for ambulances. They would probably kill to simply be "less efficient".
    Or they could adapt to the situation and carry a medical kit that would support them for a few hours with quick fix surgery while they carried them to a hospital.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    Governments can govern now because they have the means to do so, take away that means and they cease to govern.
    So how did the governments govern in the olden days without technology and electricity? Saying that the government needs this stuff is an overstatement, I mean there are governments that don't even rely on technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    How would you hear from them?
    Making their voice as loud as possible, organizing meetings; they can still organize the populace and try to manage the situation you know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    Effective, efficient communication would be needed to organize such a meeting. The whole city or town (unless very small) wouldnt know of this meeting, and no one would know what was wrong. Local governments are useless enough already.
    There is word of mouth and things such as posters and flyers; just because there isn't internet or radio or even TV doesn't mean there can't be a way to let people know about these meetings.

    They don't need to know what's wrong, they just need to be reassured.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    And what happens to the pipelines when SCADA goes offline?
    Pipeline operation.
    Manual operation? Surely they'd think of such a situation since the system is suspectable to power loses. (for both primary and backup)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    How are people going to pay exactly? Withdraw money from the bank?
    Yes, ATMs and Banks have cash and it may be less difficult if they kept some form of written account information with them; otherwise it's going to be difficult.

    Cos they're gonna need cash, and lots of it.[/QUOTE]
    Aware but still... they don't need that much cash.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    Cards are no good anymore. Tills wont work either.
    True for cash, not true for cash registers since the bottom part can be opened but calculations would have to be done on paper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    Riots and looting will ensue. Tempers will flare. People will want to "defend" there own and "protect" whats theirs. Mob rule.
    I doubt that people would want to defend their own but you are right in that people will become agitated in this situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    People will loot and riot if they see the opportunity to do so. The recent UK riots are an example of that.
    Note when I say "over the edge", the LA riots happen because people were pissed off about the outcome of Rodney King, the UK riots happened because people were pissed off at their government, hell, they even rioted when the Lakers won.

    Riots start when something sets them over the edge, makes the entire group of people disregard everything and just do whatever they want whether it's organized or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    Need for food, clean water, fule etc are perfect reasons for people to go over the edge. The event doesnt happen gradually, its sudden. Someone hits the off switch.
    That's true, but what I think will cause the riot will be one person complaining about the price and stock and then throwing an item and the entire group joining along; agitation causes riots and like I said before, they wouldn't riot suddenly if a sudden event happened; it has to build up to the point where tensions are high enough to cause riots.

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Revolution ( NBC) : News/Speculation/General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
    Even if the people noticed the planes falling from the sky (which would be rare unless the area was a popular airplane destination), they would still think it's local. Hell they would even try to find out whether or not other cities have the same thing happening to them.
    Rare?!?! There has been one and only one time when i can remember there not being any planes in the sky. And that was Iceland's fault. Planes are always flying overhead; anyone who thinks them falling from the sky is simply a local problem, is a fool.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
    That doesn't mean there are ways to help out, hence the reason why there are a equivalent amount of ways to help without using technology.
    Hehe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
    Without electricity there would be no lights, no lights means the ability to see natural light (especially stars) better, hence the ability to notice fires.


    Or they could place up a tower and use signals; I mean people have used signals without electricity by using fire and mirrors...
    And push their fire engines there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
    They still have the supplies to do so, they just don't have the ability to detect a heartbeat or even do complex operational stuff. (making it much more difficult but not impossible.)
    And when all those supplies have been used on all the folks in the actual hospital who's lives are suddenly in danger when all the machines blink out (that would be their primary concern)? They take placebos to the rest of us?


    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
    No electricity also means no noise therefore noises (especially riot noises) would be more noticeable to the police; and the police have the means, it's called running. Police are usually fast on their feat, not letting up until either the other person tires out or they do; which for the police officer is more rare.

    Or they could borrow horses from the populace.
    Running. They can get there in time to see empty shops and burned out buildings. Police dont run miles in their riot gear. As for the military, it'd be interesting to see how they manage to get half our armed forces back from the desert.

    You seem to think every one in the military or police can ride, that all the horse around are trained for riot situations and that there are enough horse to go around. The horse owners might be inclined to keep them for themselves to use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
    Or they could adapt to the situation and carry a medical kit that would support them for a few hours with quick fix surgery while they carried them to a hospital.
    Lets hope no one needs help at night, or requires anything remotly complicated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
    So how did the governments govern in the olden days without technology and electricity? Saying that the government needs this stuff is an overstatement, I mean there are governments that don't even rely on technology.
    From Wiki.
    Year Population
    1625- 1,980
    1641- 50,000
    1688- 200,000
    1702- 270,000
    1715- 435,000
    1749- 1,000,000
    1754- 1,500,000
    1765- 2,200,000
    1775- 2,400,000

    The "olden days" cant be compared to today's 300 million people living in a fully industrialised and mechanised society. Today's government definitely does need this stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
    Making their voice as loud as possible, organizing meetings; they can still organize the populace and try to manage the situation you know.
    Shouting in a city full of frightened, panicked people. Useful.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
    There is word of mouth and things such as posters and flyers; just because there isn't internet or radio or even TV doesn't mean there can't be a way to let people know about these meetings.
    Posters and flyers? Maybe in a small village.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
    They don't need to know what's wrong, they just need to be reassured.
    Reassured by who? No one knows whats going on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
    Manual operation? Surely they'd think of such a situation since the system is suspectable to power loses. (for both primary and backup)
    Wasnt in the article. What about all the electronic locks and security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
    Yes, ATMs and Banks have cash and it may be less difficult if they kept some form of written account information with them; otherwise it's going to be difficult.
    You need to be able to get at the money in the banks vaults and ATM's. All the electronic security, key cards and what not.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
    Aware but still... they don't need that much cash.
    If they want to stock up on food and water they do.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
    I doubt that people would want to defend their own but you are right in that people will become agitated in this situation.
    Agitated, frightened, angry, looking for someone to blame (i can see idiots turning on Muslim neighbours), an us and them mentality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
    Note when I say "over the edge", the LA riots happen because people were pissed off about the outcome of Rodney King, the UK riots happened because people were pissed off at their government, hell, they even rioted when the Lakers won.
    The UK riots happened because idiots saw an opportunity and jumped on a bandwagon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
    Riots start when something sets them over the edge, makes the entire group of people disregard everything and just do whatever they want whether it's organized or not.
    It takes very little to set people over the edge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
    That's true, but what I think will cause the riot will be one person complaining about the price and stock and then throwing an item and the entire group joining along; agitation causes riots and like I said before, they wouldn't riot suddenly if a sudden event happened; it has to build up to the point where tensions are high enough to cause riots.
    Some would, and thats all it takes.


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    I think that people wont want to simply move back and start farming, people will form gangs and take what they want. There is nothing that any government could do, if they wanted the army they would have to send someone to get them, and by the time they managed to walk/ride back, it could all be over. Two police officers in a riot cannot call for backup, they would have no chance.


    Also: Revolution Wiki moved the wiki to its own home.

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Revolution ( NBC) : News/Speculation/General Discussion

    Ok... So Tim guinee will play in the second season of homeland as well.. courious on how it will conflict it with revolution

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    Default Re: Revolution ( NBC) : News/Speculation/General Discussion

    Saw a preview for this...looks interesting.

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    Default Re: Revolution ( NBC) : News/Speculation/General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by LtColCarter View Post
    Saw a preview for this...looks interesting.
    I certainly think so too. I will definitely give this show a fair shot to impress me.

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    Default Re: Revolution ( NBC) : News/Speculation/General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    First a politician would have to get to their building, meet with the other politicians, divide up tasks, get their aides to run these tasks out (its the city, there are no horse and carts roaming about).
    Noted and this is where the difficulty part comes in but some places contain horses and there are bikes that they can use. (I can't believe I've forgotten about the bikes, the most simplistic transportation method yet.)

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    You'd need a large area to aspeak at, but then people too would need the means to get there, if they have to walk 15 km they probably won't bother, just send one person per street to find out and report back.
    I have walked 15 km (or 9 miles in US terms), there isn't any reason they can't do it though I would put less doubt into their unwillingness to do anything; there's nothing to do for them at home, they'd be standing around hopelessly and incidents usually bring out the most willing of aspects (such as the ability to do anything) so people will probably be willing to walk 15 miles if they don't have a bike or horse to take them there.

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    I heard a story here at uni about a guy who, when the power was out just waited for it to come back on to eat. People are going to refuse to cook any other way and resort to stealing simple food from others.
    They're going to refuse because they're unwilling of going back to the olden ways; something which I think humanity is capable of doing. I'm guessing the people behind Revolution thought the same way and thus gave the perception that humanity is so addicted to technology in the first scenes of the trailer.

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    Yes we would make a fire and cook our meat, but we would have to cook it all and it wouldn't last too long after that.
    You wouldn't have to cook all of your meat, you'd just have to make sure that your meat remains cold for as long as the environment where the meat is in remains cold, that means not leaving the door open for long amounts of time and having an organized fridge where you can easily reach anything that you want.

    Certain types of wood are reignitable and if we don't have those then certainly we'd have plenty of wood to start a fire around.

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    Yes but the cashier is either tasked with walking to check the prices, writing down all the prices in the store and then have to manually add them up on the spot (the average person is terrible at such a thing)
    This is the reason why stores have aisles and the reason organization exists, if everything is unorganized and in one isle then not only would the cashiers have trouble but so would the customers; and the trusty pad and pencil is the most reliable thing humanity has to add prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    or just take the customers word on the price. The second people start having to pay $50/litre water they will get desperate, push each other and the riot has begun.
    Noted.

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    In my hometown, a massive storm blew in and cut off the power, within seconds, people were knocking down an old security guard, grabbing food and running for it. People love getting something for nothing, and generally take the opportunity to do so.
    I still think people would unite together in a situation like this, I mean if everybody started rioting then it would lead them nowhere and they'd be in a worse predicament then they were now. Sure, they'll be idiots but the bond of a community is stronger then a bunch of rioters.

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    An example of how the government/food stores would cease to work after long: A store is selling corn, they normally get in three crates on horse and cart taking two weeks between shipments, suddenly refugees, fleeing the bigger cities arrive, willing to sell their gold and other items for food. The store owner would need to wait four weeks for food, by then people have died of starvation. We rely on communication more than electricity to get things done, without it, we'd need to train a lots of messenger pigeons....unfortunately hungry people have eaten all the pigeons.
    Well we have smoke signals, we have glare signals, we have the pony express, we have propulsion trains; we have ways to communicate that even though aren't as efficient as modern times, are still efficient enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    Rare?!?! There has been one and only one time when i can remember there not being any planes in the sky. And that was Iceland's fault. Planes are always flying overhead; anyone who thinks them falling from the sky is simply a local problem, is a fool.
    Where I live I barely see airplanes flying over, and I live near an international airport. For the public to think of planes flying out of the sky as a global event, there'd have to be the same number as the ones shown in the Revolution trailer (note, there were 6-7 planes up there all mostly close to each other.); otherwise one or two planes flying from the sky will be counted as a local event.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    And push their fire engines there.
    No, I doubt they'd push their fire engines there, all they'd need to carry is a pump to get the water, a really tall ladder and something to get them to the area quickly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    And when all those supplies have been used on all the folks in the actual hospital who's lives are suddenly in danger when all the machines blink out (that would be their primary concern)? They take placebos to the rest of us?
    Medical science (and teaching) does not exclude herbal or natural treatments, if all of the pills (from major pharmaceutical companies) are used up then they can simply switch to stuff used from natural sources; additionally, the stuff that they use to sedate and disinfect also come naturally; such as alcohol. Plants have managed to serve many purposes for many years, I doubt they'd fail us when it comes to incidents like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    Running. They can get there in time to see empty shops and burned out buildings. Police dont run miles in their riot gear.
    But they still run, the best police officers manage to go on for miles just running; I have yet to see a top police officer run out of breath before the perk does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    As for the military, it'd be interesting to see how they manage to get half our armed forces back from the desert.
    Easy, just send people to their bases and round them up (depending on whether or not their training includes the location of the base.) or send a hanglider and drop smoke flares on the locations where troops are found.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    You seem to think every one in the military or police can ride, that all the horse around are trained for riot situations and that there are enough horse to go around.
    Well they can ride them; I didn't say they'd be use for riot situations, just transportation only and horses are the same as cars, there are a limited amount of them unless they managed to create a horse breeding factory similar to a car manufacturing factory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    The horse owners might be inclined to keep them for themselves to use.
    I have kept that in mind and anything might go their way, including questionable decisions which might harm rather then help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    Lets hope no one needs help at night
    I know they can't be seen or it'd be tough to operate at night but it isn't a downside considering natrual sources of light and seeking help exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    or requires anything remotly complicated.
    Doctors have done complicated operations without machinery, it is possible but a lot harder without cameras to pinpoint, machines to detect heartbeats, drills to drill things (mechanical drills require a lot of work I admit) and an electrical shock machine to restart the heartbeat. It's not impossible but it's a lot harder to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    The "olden days" cant be compared to today's 300 million people living in a fully industrialised and mechanised society.
    The late 1800's had mechanized technology but certainly not to the level where it's fully advanced and automated (electricity was barely used in those days and communication still got through just fine.)

    Early 1900's had gotten farther but it wasn't to the point where it revolutionized communications, people did just fine with what they had which were early radios, the mail system and signals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    Today's government definitely does need this stuff.
    No they don't, they need it because it's easier; not because it's more efficient. I guess human nature will always abandon a typewriter for a modern top-of-the-line computer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    Shouting in a city full of frightened, panicked people. Useful.
    They're not going to get more panicked if they hear yelling, just if they aren't reassured. (and that's considering the aftermath of the incident; not the initial start of it.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    Posters and flyers? Maybe in a small village.
    I've seem them in a city and though they may be more efficient ways of communication, posters and flyers always seem to work out no matter what the size

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    Reassured by who? No one knows whats going on.
    The city officials, they may not know what's going on but the public would love to hear that the officials will do everything that they can to manage the situation and to find out what's going on; and they'd also love to see it done too. (because the worst of incidents have always been managed by the government of the city, the quality of the management of the situation does vary though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    Wasnt in the article. What about all the electronic locks and security?
    No fool would completely rely on electronic locks and security, what if a hacker from China comes in and messes up the entire system with a couple of keystrokes or what if both of the power systems fail (there is a chance that the secondary backup system could fail.); people would be complaining up the wazzo if there as a total system failure so there would have to be an analogue backup that can allow for manual operation of the system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    You need to be able to get at the money in the banks vaults and ATM's. All the electronic security, key cards and what not.
    Again, not everything is fully electronically protected. (hence the reason we still have guards at the bank) and I've seen ATM's without any form of electronic security, just a really strong key lock that only the most experienced of lockpickers can pick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    If they want to stock up on food and water they do.
    While the people who want to stock up on everything need tons of money, the people who think the situation is normal (which it will become over time) will use a normal amount of money; it seems mostly crazy to carry around loads of money because of the situation at hand. (unless the people who thought it was the end of the world outnumbered the normal and sane people.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    Agitated, frightened, angry, looking for someone to blame (i can see idiots turning on Muslim neighbours), an us and them mentality.
    I'd doubt they'd be angry or looking for someone to blame but they would be agitated and frightened due to factors such as lack of electricity, lack of response, uncertainty and various changes they would have to make to their lives.

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    Default Re: Revolution ( NBC) : News/Speculation/General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
    Noted and this is where the difficulty part comes in but some places contain horses and there are bikes that they can use. (I can't believe I've forgotten about the bikes, the most simplistic transportation method yet.)
    In the middle of a city, there are no horses. Bikes can be used but not everyone has a bike.

    I have walked 15 km (or 9 miles in US terms), there isn't any reason they can't do it though I would put less doubt into their unwillingness to do anything; there's nothing to do for them at home, they'd be standing around hopelessly and incidents usually bring out the most willing of aspects (such as the ability to do anything) so people will probably be willing to walk 15 miles if they don't have a bike or horse to take them there.
    Yes but if you walked 15 km and were told that the power is out everywhere as far as they knew and told you to just look after yourself and go home you would get a little pissed off and demand to be given food or water for you trouble in coming in. And a few days later if asked to walk back in to hear the same thing you would just give up.

    They're going to refuse because they're unwilling of going back to the olden ways; something which I think humanity is capable of doing. I'm guessing the people behind Revolution thought the same way and thus gave the perception that humanity is so addicted to technology in the first scenes of the trailer.
    Yes because how often is the power out for weeks at a time? Never, people will just lay back and wait for something to happen.

    You wouldn't have to cook all of your meat, you'd just have to make sure that your meat remains cold for as long as the environment where the meat is in remains cold, that means not leaving the door open for long amounts of time and having an organized fridge where you can easily reach anything that you want.
    Perhaps, but lots of people would assume that their fridge or freezer would get warm very quickly and would cook things that needed to be cooked right away.

    This is the reason why stores have aisles and the reason organization exists, if everything is unorganized and in one isle then not only would the cashiers have trouble but so would the customers; and the trusty pad and pencil is the most reliable thing humanity has to add prices.
    Yes but if you go into a supermarket, they have thousands of items with different prices, you would need to write out EVERY price numerous times and give a copy to each cashier. Aisles and organization mean nothing if you need to look at each price individually. And someone would make a mistake and then get yelled at, claiming the price was something else.

    I still think people would unite together in a situation like this, I mean if everybody started rioting then it would lead them nowhere and they'd be in a worse predicament then they were now. Sure, they'll be idiots but the bond of a community is stronger then a bunch of rioters.
    Its called 'Panic'. People do stupid things when panicked. If you were told that food is low and you may not get some, you would panic a bit and when a riot breaks out, are you just going to let them take all the food and you have none?

    Well we have smoke signals, we have glare signals, we have the pony express, we have propulsion trains; we have ways to communicate that even though aren't as efficient as modern times, are still efficient enough.
    The average person wouldn't notice smoke or glare signals. Also if a cop showed up on a horse, would you immediately assume that they are a cop? Not sure what a propulsion train is, but there are few trains that don't operate on electricity still around and the ones that are arent on tracks. Plus the older ones have different gauges for the tracks and wont fit.

    Yes people would eventually figure things out and get along, but not for a while and there would be tonnes of damage, a fire that breaks out in a city, does not have the benefit of being able of being put out by firemen as they cannot get their trucks to the fire or use electric pumps. Police cannot call for backup as their is no radio. Stores cannot order things in as their is no phone or internet. Governments would lose their power instantly, yes if they are properly organised then they could get things running eventually, but the damage would be too great for them to fix it.

  18. #58
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    Default Re: Revolution ( NBC) : News/Speculation/General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    In the middle of a city, there are no horses. Bikes can be used but not everyone has a bike.
    A big urban city maybe but still... Keep in mind that bikes are cheaper, don't require a license to drive and though may be slower can get you anywhere as long as stamina is concerned. IMO I think there are more people with bikes then there are with cars.

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    Yes but if you walked 15 km and were told that the power is out everywhere as far as they knew and told you to just look after yourself and go home you would get a little pissed off and demand to be given food or water for you trouble in coming in. And a few days later if asked to walk back in to hear the same thing you would just give up.
    I doubt that the government of a city would actually forsake the efforts the people went to get here, if they did that then there wouldn't be any sort of order. The government would probably try to institute plans to ration the food, make sure everybody gets proper education, make sure the streets are safe and make sure that temporary shelters for those who walked 15km are avaliable; they wouldn't stick with the whole "look after yourself, stay home" thing twice, that wouldn't get them anywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    Yes because how often is the power out for weeks at a time? Never, people will just lay back and wait for something to happen.
    If those people just lay back and wait then they're fools, and those who continue to wait while everybody has adapted are just tricking themselves. I understand what you're going for but I doubt people would just lay back and wait, human subconsciousness won't easily let them do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    Perhaps, but lots of people would assume that their fridge or freezer would get warm very quickly and would cook things that needed to be cooked right away.
    This is why stuff like science and math is taught in schools, so we can understand how things work and be able to solve problems in life. Take for instance the freezer, it can retain it's internal temperature for some while because the molecules in there are speeding up (ie getting hotter) at a slower rate; introduce some particles from an outside environment and it speeds up even more (ie gets hot even faster) hence why we have to move quickly when deciding what to get out of the freezer. If people don't realize that anything that's self contained can retain anything (temperature, oxygen, chemicals, etc.) then how will they get anywhere in life?

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    Yes but if you go into a supermarket, they have thousands of items with different prices, you would need to write out EVERY price numerous times and give a copy to each cashier. Aisles and organization mean nothing if you need to look at each price individually. And someone would make a mistake and then get yelled at, claiming the price was something else.
    You can write down every price then replicate everything on an analog typewriter since all you have to do is type down the keys and though it may be hard to explain, the way of organization can help and people themselves can find ways to manage taking down all of the individual prices. Think of it this way, if someone is buying peas then the cashier can look under canned goods, vegetables, peas and find what they're looking for; I mean the only thing that costs different is the different brands, it would be easier if they managed to eliminate brands to a point where everything is streamlined but since brands would still exist in the blackout, it'd be harder.

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    Its called 'Panic'. People do stupid things when panicked. If you were told that food is low and you may not get some, you would panic a bit and when a riot breaks out, are you just going to let them take all the food and you have none?
    Naturally yes but still...

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    The average person wouldn't notice smoke or glare signals.
    They could be taught; I mean we still have tons of information on paper books and once they realize nothing will work, they'll have to adapt.

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    Also if a cop showed up on a horse, would you immediately assume that they are a cop?
    Yes...

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    Not sure what a propulsion train is
    Apologies, I was thinking about a train that requires manual labor to operate.

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    but there are few trains that don't operate on electricity still around and the ones that are arent on tracks. Plus the older ones have different gauges for the tracks and wont fit.
    That doesn't mean they can't put those trains back into service or even resume making those trains; they're mostly compatible with those train tracks to an extent and there are books on how to operate a steam engine train, it's not like the Amtrak trains are thinner then the current steam engine trains.

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    Yes people would eventually figure things out and get along, but not for a while and there would be tonnes of damage, a fire that breaks out in a city, does not have the benefit of being able of being put out by firemen as they cannot get their trucks to the fire or use electric pumps.
    Why would they need to get their trucks, as I said before, a ladder, hose and manual pump would do just fine; the method of transportation is in question but they don't need trucks to get them there or put out a fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    Police cannot call for backup as their is no radio.
    Noted but they can quickly learn to bring additional backup just in case like the old days.

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    Stores cannot order things in as their is no phone or internet.
    There is mail, I don't know of stores that still use mail to order things but mail can be used to order things.

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    Governments would lose their power instantly, yes if they are properly organised then they could get things running eventually, but the damage would be too great for them to fix it.
    No they wouldn't, they would lose the technology but they wouldn't lose the power (especially not because fire departments and stories rely so much on phones, internet and trucks and can't adapt to different situations.); the only thing they have to worry about is finding ways to adapt to the old times but still managing to be efficient.

    Personally if I were the government I would just be starting at my powered-off HDTV waiting for the power to suddenly come back on so I can resume watching that Bugs Bunny cartoon I was watching at the time it went off, because what else would I do?

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    Default Re: Revolution ( NBC) : News/Speculation/General Discussion

    There is one thing that is overlooked though - its a tv show where such a thing happens, therefore in the show's reality, it can happen.

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    Default Re: Revolution ( NBC) : News/Speculation/General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    There is one thing that is overlooked though - its a tv show where such a thing happens, therefore in the show's reality, it can happen.
    Yes... The entire electricity turning off can happen in a show (or a show's reality) but stuff like the stuff a people do in the initial hours of the blackout can't be easily justified as simply being a part of the show's reality. From what I've seen on the trailer, they did make it seem like everything would collapse just so they could create the show's reality but I doubt they would completely ignore human nature to such a point where it'd seem like they'd be incapable of working together or even adapting to new situations quickly.

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