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  1. #81
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    Default Re: why after 2000 years is Novus not that much more advanced then present day earth?

    Scientists study the world as it is; engineers create the world that has never been. —Theodore von Kármán.
    In Novus case these engineers have a leg up because they know the world that has been.


    To put into better perspective. Say a chemist identifies some wonderful reaction that makes compound x. The chemist is only able to make a microgram of this a year using his own devices. The engineers starts with the chemist believes to be true, verifies it, and applies existing technology in order to produce tons of compound x a day. When is done it is likely to be produced in an entirely different matter and a bizzillion times the efficiency.

  2. #82
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    Default Re: why after 2000 years is Novus not that much more advanced then present day earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rise Of The Phoenix View Post
    All very good points, there's a lot of basic to just learn through trial and error.
    In my post I may have made it seem like it's easy stuff, but there's a lot that goes into making even the basic stuff we take for granted.

    If I can green you I will.

    As an add to this please check wikipedia, a greek engineer was the first person to make a windmill type structure, that was at the beginning of the 1st millenia.
    The Babylonians had S-Rotor windmills pumping water and grinding grain long before Christ (potentially before Judaism).

  3. #83
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    Default Re: why after 2000 years is Novus not that much more advanced then present day earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by slimjim View Post



    1) years ago I saw a documentary where they mentioned that engine, on it a physicist said it would take something like the energy of a million suns to propel a ship 1CM at the speed of light using this engine
    2) they can power a hyper drive engine with a naquadah generator which isn't that much more powerful then a normal nuclear reactor
    Simply using brute force is not going to get a ship anywhere near C.

    A mkI naq reactor is not anywhere near a normal nuclear reactor and steady state output would be a few MWelectric (an obscene amount of power but nowhere near a 1000MWe). The city on Ausuras with hyper efficient systems required dozens of ZPMs and the city of Chicago requires 8 nuclear reactors and a few other plants. You do the math.

  4. #84
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    Default Re: why after 2000 years is Novus not that much more advanced then present day earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by morrismike View Post
    Simply using brute force is not going to get a ship anywhere near C.

    A mkI naq reactor is not anywhere near a normal nuclear reactor and steady state output would be a few MWelectric (an obscene amount of power but nowhere near a 1000MWe). The city on Ausuras with hyper efficient systems required dozens of ZPMs and the city of Chicago requires 8 nuclear reactors and a few other plants. You do the math.
    ZPMs aren't naquadah generators


    "A mkI naq reactor is not anywhere near a normal nuclear reactor and steady state output would be a few MWelectric (an obscene amount of power but nowhere near a 1000MWe)" I'm sorry which are you saying is more power full?

  5. #85
    Lieutenant Colonel Rise Of The Phoenix's Avatar
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    Default Re: why after 2000 years is Novus not that much more advanced then present day earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by slimjim View Post
    ok I admit I got wrong how old windmills where, but "The first windmill or windwheels were made in the 1st century AD, it's taken since then to get to the level we have" it's not like the last 2000 years have been continual advancement, the scientific revaluation and the renaissance only happened a few hundred years ago, before that things moved rather more slowly but on novus they new about the importance of scientific advancement from the get go
    There are other things besides windmills that they'll need.
    Everything that came before the windmill would account for over a 100,000 years, that means development from nothing to everything we have to now.
    The Novans basically match Earth and beat our planet for what appears to be every piece of tech, that's over 100,000 years of development crammed into 2000 years, with a bit of a head start with some knowledge from throughout that time period.

    "homes and food sources would be a priority first, learning about their environment would take longer to achieve, so it could be a few years before they make there first windmills, then they'll need more for larger populations.
    It could have taken the Novans time (as in years) to build their first basic water powered stuff, they'd only have small numbers to do things first, this alone makes their level of development plausible" are you honestly telling me all that would take more then several hundred years? becuse thats what it would have to be at least for this explanation to make sense
    The Novans would have to do more than establish the basics, they'd need to work as a civilization, get along with each other.
    Social problems can take centuries to deal with.
    You act like the Novans would have done nothing but copy what they knew from the original colonists memories of things they may or may not know and maybe fill in the gaps.
    They weren't robots, they were Human beings.
    Nations have internal disagreements, planets have worldwide conflicts and disputes over many different things, yet the Novans still managed to improve upon our level of technology, even though they were originally a group of Humans that could barely get along, managing to survive and not nuke each other too pieces is a major accomplishment.

    either way it's no representative of a typical novus colony
    The Novans had one major city we saw, then we saw a world with warehouses and a few brick buildings with rubble in a number of places.
    Then there were some colonists with tents, so we have a variety of different locations that the Novan people have been shown to live in, there isn't a typical type of colony for them.

    the drones completely destroy everything
    There were a load of buildings intact, with some rubble that was not large enough to be large sky scrapers blown to pieces.


    "All of that could take many decades" they had 2000 years
    I like the way you take that part of my post out of context.
    The Novans had to squash over 100,000 of development of important technologies into 2000 years, they didn't just have to make housing and feed their people.
    They also had disagreements in how they should live, two nations with different ideas on how they should develop.
    Because of this they can't have just focused on tech development, that would be a portion of their history and not all of it.
    "but you'd still have people from whatever side living in a different geographical region, regions of a certain side's land could be less catered for than in others" but the circumstances would not very as much as with different countries, how much does the technological level honestly vary across the united states?
    That would depend on what state you were in, the US has many homeless people, people still starve and die of various illness, from diseases that can't be instantly be cured.



    "because what we see is what they've got" and I'm saying they should have more, how can a fictional setting prove anything?
    So you're saying that what we see on screen isn't the truth?
    You can't dispute that what we see on screen isn't the truth, it is, it's a fact of the show.
    SGU may be fictional, but what happens within the Stargate Universe is truth to that universe, you can't deny Canon.
    I also have to remind you that we're talking about the development of a fictional group of humans, not reality, what we see on screen proves that the fictional people that started from nothing on Novus advanced further than us, with less time and a little of the total knowledge that our race has passed on to 50 people, along with maybe a bit of stuff learned from other older races.
    The fact that from basically nothing they are more advanced than us with only 2000 years to get there, with no help aside from a little knowledge to give them a boost is amazing, the fact that they survived and didn't kill each other is amazing..

    the novuns know it requires a "naquadah generator which isn't that much more powerful then a normal nuclear reactor", we have no idea how much energy a Alcubierre Drive requires
    Some Novans alive around 2000 years before those that left the planet in the present day on their ships may have known about Naquda, but the knowledge of it's exact atomic composition probably wouldn't have been known to them and they'd have to explore planets and find a high enough grade of the stuff to create enough power to make a Hyperdrive or advanced tech work.
    Since no one's mentioned that Naquada exists in the galaxy, even though the seed ships and Destiny can scan nearby planets.
    The fact that creating a hyperspace window requires basically punching a whole through the vacume of space into another dimension, of another part of our universe, create a conduit inside that region of space and then punch another whole back into the regular vacume of space.
    Warp only requires distorting the space infront of a craft and expanding the space behind the ship enough to move it from point a to point b, you're not breaking space or tearing a hole, then potentially having to repair it, Hyperdrive would require more energy because it has to tear a hole in space, maintain a conduit within subspace and then tear another hole back into the vacume, potentially having to repair space both going into subspace and exiting it.

  6. #86
    Lieutenant Colonel Rise Of The Phoenix's Avatar
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    Default Re: why after 2000 years is Novus not that much more advanced then present day earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by morrismike View Post
    Scientists study the world as it is; engineers create the world that has never been. —Theodore von Kármán.
    In Novus case these engineers have a leg up because they know the world that has been.


    To put into better perspective. Say a chemist identifies some wonderful reaction that makes compound x. The chemist is only able to make a microgram of this a year using his own devices. The engineers starts with the chemist believes to be true, verifies it, and applies existing technology in order to produce tons of compound x a day. When is done it is likely to be produced in an entirely different matter and a bizzillion times the efficiency.
    The leg up allowed them to go from basically nothing to being decades more advanced than modern day real world Earth and possessing basically everything important to making the best stuff we have today even better than we can, all within 2000 years, amazing IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by morrismike View Post
    The Babylonians had S-Rotor windmills pumping water and grinding grain long before Christ (potentially before Judaism).
    I made the cardinal mistake, going by what wikipedia says, but still if the windmill existed long before the 1st century that means the Novans have crammed basically everything we've had from thousands of years before windmills were first built, beyond real world Earth level stuff in 2000 years, even though it would be hard to just survive in the beginning and they'd have disagreements over many things along the way, beliefs in many areas of the society, they still advanced further than modern day Earth, pretty amazing IMO, the fact they don't have shields, energy weapons and ftl tech is probably just around the corner for them and probably possible in the not too distant future if they can find or synthesize the correct materials to make it happen.

  7. #87
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    Default Re: why after 2000 years is Novus not that much more advanced then present day earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rise Of The Phoenix View Post
    There are other things besides windmills that they'll need.
    Everything that came before the windmill would account for over a 100,000 years, that means development from nothing to everything we have to now.
    The Novans basically match Earth and beat our planet for what appears to be every piece of tech, that's over 100,000 years of development crammed into 2000 years, with a bit of a head start with some knowledge from throughout that time period.
    "with a bit of a head start with some knowledge from throughout that time period" they had a massive head start on the humans of 1000 years ago, those people didn't even have understand the importance of having different people do different jobs



    Quote Originally Posted by Rise Of The Phoenix View Post
    The Novans would have to do more than establish the basics, they'd need to work as a civilization, get along with each other.
    Social problems can take centuries to deal with.
    You act like the Novans would have done nothing but copy what they knew from the original colonists memories of things they may or may not know and maybe fill in the gaps.
    They weren't robots, they were Human beings.
    Nations have internal disagreements, planets have worldwide conflicts and disputes over many different things, yet the Novans still managed to improve upon our level of technology, even though they were originally a group of Humans that could barely get along, managing to survive and not nuke each other too pieces is a major accomplishment.
    "You act like the Novans would have done nothing but copy what they knew from the original colonists memories of things they may or may not know and maybe fill in the gaps.
    They weren't robots, they were Human beings" why would they choose trying to create things from scratch over trying to work towards goals they knew are achievable

    "The Novans would have to do more than establish the basics, they'd need to work as a civilization, get along with each other.
    Social problems can take centuries to deal with" they where do fine at the end of the episode



    Quote Originally Posted by Rise Of The Phoenix View Post
    The Novans had one major city we saw, then we saw a world with warehouses and a few brick buildings with rubble in a number of places.
    Then there were some colonists with tents, so we have a variety of different locations that the Novan people have been shown to live in, there isn't a typical type of colony for them.
    we can't say that because we've only seen one (since novus it's self also doesn't count)



    Quote Originally Posted by Rise Of The Phoenix View Post
    There were a load of buildings intact, with some rubble that was not large enough to be large sky scrapers blown to pieces.
    the drones deliberately left those buildings alone because they where so low tech



    Quote Originally Posted by Rise Of The Phoenix View Post
    I like the way you take that part of my post out of context.
    The Novans had to squash over 100,000 of development of important technologies into 2000 years, they didn't just have to make housing and feed their people.
    They also had disagreements in how they should live, two nations with different ideas on how they should develop.
    Because of this they can't have just focused on tech development, that would be a portion of their history and not all of it.
    "The Novans had to squash over 100,000 of development of important technologies into 2000 years" no they didn't
    "They also had disagreements in how they should live, two nations with different ideas on how they should develop.
    Because of this they can't have just focused on tech development" why would how the country next door wants the develop effect me?


    Quote Originally Posted by Rise Of The Phoenix View Post
    That would depend on what state you were in, the US has many homeless people, people still starve and die of various illness, from diseases that can't be instantly be cured.
    but still not nearly as many as in the third world





    Quote Originally Posted by Rise Of The Phoenix View Post
    So you're saying that what we see on screen isn't the truth?
    You can't dispute that what we see on screen isn't the truth, it is, it's a fact of the show.
    SGU may be fictional, but what happens within the Stargate Universe is truth to that universe, you can't deny Canon.
    I also have to remind you that we're talking about the development of a fictional group of humans, not reality, what we see on screen proves that the fictional people that started from nothing on Novus advanced further than us, with less time and a little of the total knowledge that our race has passed on to 50 people, along with maybe a bit of stuff learned from other older races.
    The fact that from basically nothing they are more advanced than us with only 2000 years to get there, with no help aside from a little knowledge to give them a boost is amazing, the fact that they survived and didn't kill each other is amazing..
    I acknowledge what's on screen I'm saying it doesn't make sense, and shouldn't be. There is a difference between stuff like made up technology and things that are just illogical



    Quote Originally Posted by Rise Of The Phoenix View Post
    Some Novans alive around 2000 years before those that left the planet in the present day on their ships may have known about Naquda, but the knowledge of it's exact atomic composition probably wouldn't have been known to them and they'd have to explore planets and find a high enough grade of the stuff to create enough power to make a Hyperdrive or advanced tech work.
    Since no one's mentioned that Naquada exists in the galaxy, even though the seed ships and Destiny can scan nearby planets.
    The fact that creating a hyperspace window requires basically punching a whole through the vacume of space into another dimension, of another part of our universe, create a conduit inside that region of space and then punch another whole back into the regular vacume of space.
    Warp only requires distorting the space infront of a craft and expanding the space behind the ship enough to move it from point a to point b, you're not breaking space or tearing a hole, then potentially having to repair it, Hyperdrive would require more energy because it has to tear a hole in space, maintain a conduit within subspace and then tear another hole back into the vacume, potentially having to repair space both going into subspace and exiting it.
    1) they'd know the "exact atomic composition" because one of the scientists would have written it down or described it to a keno
    2)"Since no one's mentioned that Naquada exists in the galaxy" why would they mention it, it's not like they've got a generator on Destiny, what good would it do them
    2)"Warp only requires distorting the space infront of a craft and expanding the space behind the ship enough to move it from point a to point b, you're not breaking space or tearing a hole, then potentially having to repair it, Hyperdrive would require more energy because it has to tear a hole in space, maintain a conduit within subspace and then tear another hole back into the vacume, potentially having to repair space both going into subspace and exiting it" we don't know how a Hyperdrive works, but regardless we do know how much power it needs and it's less then that

  8. #88
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    Default Re: why after 2000 years is Novus not that much more advanced then present day earth?

    they had a massive head start on the humans of 1000 years ago, those people didn't even have understand the importance of having different people do different jobs
    this assumes perfect retaining, memorizing and transferring knowledge. given that an engineer is more likely to be engineering than teaching, it would assume that the Destiny crew recorded every damn bit.



    although still a massive task, the Descendants would be backtracing the steps to modern science. simply knowing that the atom can be split can do a whole lot to the Novus research of nuclear physics. knowing that disease is caused by virusses and microbia, is a massive step towards good healthcare. yet both are relatively recent discoveries, on 2000 years of science.

    simply knowing the path would make it a lot easier. the knowledge to properly forge iron does not exist that long. in medieval times they made it hot and hammered on it untill it kind of was in shape. today it is completely molten, processed, and contents can be controlled to hundredths of percents.

    what most people call steel is more accurately called "pure iron". what we call iron is actually a mix of iron carbide, iron and carbon.


    i digress. anyway, the simple knowledge of the path will make the process of finding and paving it much easier. it certainly would not have been medieval-style, with crap on the streets and washing in your drinking water. kind of what they do in the poor regions of India. it would not have been very modern, initially, but it would be made with modern knowledge




    anyway, as to the OP question: since in real life the only space craft we have are launched by making it sit on a really large pile of fuel, and in Novus the ship took off stargate-style, i'd say Novus is a hellofalot more advanced than modern earth.

  9. #89
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    Default Re: why after 2000 years is Novus not that much more advanced then present day earth?

    The novans are making steel and concrete as soon as they have the manpower for kils and forges. Cast Iron is smelted iron ore with an overburden of carbon. There are some grades of iron (ductile iron) that are equivelant to low carbon steel (wcb cast). Carbon (coke) is added to reduce the ore and the downside of that is a burden (beyond ability to go into solution) of carbon left in the steel. Burning the excess carbon out of the melt is what makes steel. They would need to get the carbon below 0.3% to be able to weld it without special processes. My guess is once everyone is housed and has food in their belly they will scout out sources of key materials (limestone, sulfur, saltpeter, iron ore, copper ore, tin ore, clay for brick, etc.) to pave the way for future generations. Generation one will be building with brick, morter, and wood and using bronze tools. Generation two will be building with iron tools and a little bit of concrete. By generation four we're talking reinforced concrete and structural steel.

    I would guess they'd simply go with bronze and this is adequate for most of what they'd need to do. Once the bronze making is going well then they'd work on making cast iron. After that they need steel. If their need is small there are simple superalloys they can make (17-4 ph - for the Ayn Rand fans that would be Rearden Metal). The aluminum, titanium and 300 series stainless steels won't be needed for a while.

    For building they would make bricks and everything would be brick and morter (and wood) until they figure out how to make steel rebar and remesh. The concrete plants will be running long before they perfect steel. They would be building with steel and concrete withing 100 years.

    I think a lot of people are missing is that very few in current society would be useful, but properly trained and focused, the Novans would be like army ants.

  10. #90
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    Default Re: why after 2000 years is Novus not that much more advanced then present day earth?

    All of our assumptions, such as the one above, depend on there being the appropriate raw materials on the planet.

    And that at least one of the crew has sufficient skills/knowledge to identify them.

  11. #91
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    Default Re: why after 2000 years is Novus not that much more advanced then present day earth?

    It's all about startegy. Out-maneuvering the opposition, bending him to your will.
    -Dexter-

  12. #92
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    Default Re: why after 2000 years is Novus not that much more advanced then present day earth?

    Oh man I've been Gateworl'd!

    Yeah I agree with you thekillman.
    I think there's one important factor that we forgot: the human component.
    We're not robots, we don't absobe all the knowledge and don't forget anything. We tend to twist everything. I bet that among the first things that the Destiny crew did when they got there was looking for a sugar-rich plant and if it was good for ethanol, 'cause nothing's better than booze. And if we got booze, let's hit a party or something like that.
    Yes they would teach their kids all their science and stuff, but...
    Seriously, are our kids science magnets or something else? Were we not all kids? Did we really cared about what will happen in the distant future and we all talked science equations or did we cared more about the girls (or boys) from the classroom? Or about the games and pranks we were about to pull?
    Between what our parents wanted us to become and what we wanted to become, who won?
    Sure, a handful of people would of cared about the scientific knowledge, but seriously, how many? And since your brain tends to forget things that aren't important in the nearby future and since engineers constantly have to refresh their knowledge so they won't forget it, I'd say Novus it's not a very knowledge-friendly place.
    It's all about startegy. Out-maneuvering the opposition, bending him to your will.
    -Dexter-

  13. #93
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    Default Re: why after 2000 years is Novus not that much more advanced then present day earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by SGSargon View Post
    Oh man I've been Gateworl'd!

    Yeah I agree with you thekillman.
    I think there's one important factor that we forgot: the human component.
    We're not robots, we don't absobe all the knowledge and don't forget anything. We tend to twist everything. I bet that among the first things that the Destiny crew did when they got there was looking for a sugar-rich plant and if it was good for ethanol, 'cause nothing's better than booze. And if we got booze, let's hit a party or something like that.
    Yes they would teach their kids all their science and stuff, but...
    Seriously, are our kids science magnets or something else? Were we not all kids? Did we really cared about what will happen in the distant future and we all talked science equations or did we cared more about the girls (or boys) from the classroom? Or about the games and pranks we were about to pull?
    Between what our parents wanted us to become and what we wanted to become, who won?
    Sure, a handful of people would of cared about the scientific knowledge, but seriously, how many? And since your brain tends to forget things that aren't important in the nearby future and since engineers constantly have to refresh their knowledge so they won't forget it, I'd say Novus it's not a very knowledge-friendly place.
    Unlike us, these kids are focusing on surviving instead of playstation.

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    Default Re: why after 2000 years is Novus not that much more advanced then present day earth?

    Even the kids part is a human limitation: strictly speaking for the maximum survival chance, they need EVERY team member, of all orientations, to over-rule their preferences and have children with many member(s) of the opposite sex. How many are likely to agree to that (with one or two exceptions)?

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    Default Re: why after 2000 years is Novus not that much more advanced then present day earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by morrismike View Post
    Unlike us, these kids are focusing on surviving instead of playstation.
    In their first years on Novus yes. But as their life became much easier as years passed, their focus on survival would not of been that important. They would of learned how to hunt much easier or raise animals, their agriculture would of been more efficient, so they wouldn't of been that worried if they'll not going to starve tommorow, or something like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quizziard View Post
    Even the kids part is a human limitation: strictly speaking for the maximum survival chance, they need EVERY team member, of all orientations, to over-rule their preferences and have children with many member(s) of the opposite sex. How many are likely to agree to that (with one or two exceptions)?
    I agree that raising kids would of been a very priority.
    You know, this had me thinking: since they were only like 80 or so people, would of not been possible that they would of created eventually some form of eugenic program to maximize their genetic diversity and prevent it's collapse?
    Like X will have kids with W because M it's too close to X, genetically speaking (like a twisted version of arranged marriage).
    And given their situation, would of they accepted the idea?
    It's all about startegy. Out-maneuvering the opposition, bending him to your will.
    -Dexter-

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    Default Re: why after 2000 years is Novus not that much more advanced then present day earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quizziard View Post
    All of our assumptions, such as the one above, depend on there being the appropriate raw materials on the planet.

    And that at least one of the crew has sufficient skills/knowledge to identify them.
    Brody found an iron ore deposit within hours of them landing.

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    Default Re: why after 2000 years is Novus not that much more advanced then present day earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quizziard View Post
    Even the kids part is a human limitation: strictly speaking for the maximum survival chance, they need EVERY team member, of all orientations, to over-rule their preferences and have children with many member(s) of the opposite sex. How many are likely to agree to that (with one or two exceptions)?
    No.
    The first pairs need to have as many kids as possible. The early female children will likely need to pair up with the younger male crew and have as many kids as possible (Eli will be a busy man) and maybe even take multiple wives. Avoiding first cousins (or any sort of blood relative) won't be an issue for hundreds of years. Everybody sleeping around and losing track of actual fathers is a recipe for genetic disaster. With an abundance of males it may be a good idea to encourage divorce. It may be that men with good eyesight (since there are no optomitrists) should be encouraged to maybe take multiple wives. So long as the original females have no issues becoming brood mares they will be no problem.

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    Default Re: why after 2000 years is Novus not that much more advanced then present day earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by SGSargon View Post
    In their first years on Novus yes. But as their life became much easier as years passed, their focus on survival would not of been that important. They would of learned how to hunt much easier or raise animals, their agriculture would of been more efficient, so they wouldn't of been that worried if they'll not going to starve tommorow, or something like that.



    I agree that raising kids would of been a very priority.
    You know, this had me thinking: since they were only like 80 or so people, would of not been possible that they would of created eventually some form of eugenic program to maximize their genetic diversity and prevent it's collapse?
    Like X will have kids with W because M it's too close to X, genetically speaking (like a twisted version of arranged marriage).
    And given their situation, would of they accepted the idea?
    Eugenics? Really, that is a recipe for all sorts of genetic issues. Apart from encouraging good vision they just need to stick with monogomous relationships and lots of kids. A high divorce rate wouldn't be a bad thing. Simply keeping first cousins, aunts and uncles away from each other would be enough to maintain diversity. It could be hundreds of years before people with any blood relation are pairing off and by that time it won't matter.

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    Default Re: why after 2000 years is Novus not that much more advanced then present day earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    this assumes perfect retaining, memorizing and transferring knowledge. given that an engineer is more likely to be engineering than teaching, it would assume that the Destiny crew recorded every damn bit.
    actually any thing much less assumes almost no retaliation of knowledge
    Last edited by slimjim; January 2nd, 2012 at 02:07 PM.

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    Default Re: why after 2000 years is Novus not that much more advanced then present day earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by SGSargon View Post
    Oh man I've been Gateworl'd!

    Yeah I agree with you thekillman.
    I think there's one important factor that we forgot: the human component.
    We're not robots, we don't absobe all the knowledge and don't forget anything. We tend to twist everything. I bet that among the first things that the Destiny crew did when they got there was looking for a sugar-rich plant and if it was good for ethanol, 'cause nothing's better than booze. And if we got booze, let's hit a party or something like that.
    I don't know what your suggesting? there are many scientists who drink alcohol regularly without it effecting their ability to do work, teach and publish work
    Quote Originally Posted by SGSargon View Post
    Yes they would teach their kids all their science and stuff, but...
    Seriously, are our kids science magnets or something else? Were we not all kids? Did we really cared about what will happen in the distant future and we all talked science equations or did we cared more about the girls (or boys) from the classroom? Or about the games and pranks we were about to pull?
    Between what our parents wanted us to become and what we wanted to become, who won?
    that because our society has a youth culture that gives kids a grater sense of freedom from their parent's wishes, go back 100 years mother and father "won"
    Quote Originally Posted by SGSargon View Post
    Sure, a handful of people would of cared about the scientific knowledge, but seriously, how many? And since your brain tends to forget things that aren't important in the nearby future and since engineers constantly have to refresh their knowledge so they won't forget it, I'd say Novus it's not a very knowledge-friendly place.
    "Sure, a handful of people would of cared about the scientific knowledge, but seriously, how many?" I knew meny bright kids at school who where interested in scientific knowledge for it's own sake

    "since your brain tends to forget things that aren't important in the nearby future" well your exaggerated that a bit, a doctor say would probably have to stop practising for years to start forgetting lots of things and even then he'd probably never be reduced back to the level of a laymen, I'm not asking the engineers to remember every thing they've ever learned

    "engineers constantly have to refresh their knowledge so they won't forget it" I assume they do that to keep as sharp as possible on the subject, not because if they stopped everything they'd ever leaned on the subject would drain out on their heads

    "I'd say Novus it's not a very knowledge-friendly place" compared to us 2000 years ago it is
    Last edited by slimjim; January 2nd, 2012 at 02:03 PM.

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