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  1. #1
    Captain Gollumpus's Avatar
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    Default Politics in Terra Nova

    Terra Nova is in trouble.

    The colony is currently led by a single guy, who controls the military, the police force, the science department, everything is ultimately under his control. Taylor seems to have powers of a colonial era viceroy.

    In BS-G, there was a struggle over who had political control of what remained of human society. Would it be controlled by the military, or would it be under democratically elected civilian authority? It made sense to deal with that situation as they were all that was left of humanity and they would be the people who found found a society. There was no going home for these people, and there was no political entity back home to which they could appeal if there was a problem with poor government in the fleet.

    SGU had a similar storyline and handled the situation poorly, for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that it was brought up so very early in the series.

    In Terra Nova, the colonists are there for the duration. They have been present for years and their numbers have reached the point where they should be looking for something more than a society which operates under a modified version of martial law.

    As far as the vast majority of the colonists know, there is no hope of anyone going back to the future. Why has there not been any kind of movement to establish a civilian authority of the colony? Are they all too lazy to take an interest in their lives, or have they been convinced by Taylor that leaving him in charge is the safest course of (in)action? Alternately, maybe they have been forced to agree to military control of the colony as a requirement of being accepted as part of a pilgrimage?

    I just find it amazing that, as yet, there hasn't been anything on this topic mentioned.

    regards,
    G.
    Go for Marty...

  2. #2
    Harvey jelgate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Politics in Terra Nova

    Probably because its a military establishment
    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    Jelgate is right

  3. #3
    Captain tomstone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Politics in Terra Nova

    I dont think the Picture is as dark as you are painting it. Why should they establish a Civilian Authority, to what end?

    I think a seperation between Military and Civilian Goverment would be the worst thing that could happen in Terra Nova. With the Sixers outside and Spies inside of the Colony, the last thing Taylor would need are the inhabitants to scream for new Leadership. That new Leader could just as well be a Sixer him/herself.

    Also, what do you suggest then who would have the highest rank of command? The voted Mayor of Terra Nova or Taylor?

    I think Taylor did the best he could considering everything he went through. He made big sacrifices for the sake of the Colony and managed to make it grow to a well protected and prospering (almost) City.

    That Mira and the Sixers havent managed to accomplish their goals yet should be proof enough that he makes the right decisions, even if they are hard to understand.
    Fuzzy Wuzzy wasnt old,
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  4. #4
    Captain Gollumpus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Politics in Terra Nova

    Quote Originally Posted by jelgate View Post
    Probably because its a military establishment
    So, when does Terra Nova stop being a military establishment, or merely a fiefdom of Taylor? Should anything happen to Taylor, does Washington get his job, or if Lucas was still with the colony would he have become the new leader? Perhaps someone would be sent from the 2149 to become the new military governor, sorta' kinda' like the backroom boys tried in an attempt to depose Taylor.

    How long would it be/should it be before the population start to resent not having self-determination in their own affairs?

    I'm not stating a preference of one system over another, I'm just curious as to why this situation has not been addressed in some fashion within the show's content.

    regards,
    G.
    Go for Marty...

  5. #5
    Harvey jelgate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Politics in Terra Nova

    When they are longer being financed by 2149 which I would guess has a large government aspect to it
    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    Jelgate is right

  6. #6
    Captain Gollumpus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Politics in Terra Nova

    Why has any group of people established a civilian authority? Self governance. No taxation without representation. The right to decide their own fate through a democratic process. Freedom.

    I'm not suggesting that they should have elections right now, or even that it would be a good thing at the present time. What I am surprised at is that there has not been any kind of comment in the context of the show with regard to future politics within the colony. Even a comment in the first episode which mentioned that Terra Nova is run by a military governor (ie. Taylor) and that the colony would explore a change to self government after X number of pilgrimages would have been adequate.

    I am merely curious about this question. Will the colony continue to be content letting Taylor (or his military successor) make all of the decisions, or is it that they have yet to be really pushed in any way towards self determination? By pushed I don't mean just the Sixers, but rather from a full scale onslaught by actions from 2149. Could there be a storyline in future seasons similar to the American Revolutionary War or other such instances where a colony gains its independence and right to self-determination?


    Quote Originally Posted by tomstone View Post
    I dont think the Picture is as dark as you are painting it. Why should they establish a Civilian Authority, to what end?

    I think a seperation between Military and Civilian Goverment would be the worst thing that could happen in Terra Nova. With the Sixers outside and Spies inside of the Colony, the last thing Taylor would need are the inhabitants to scream for new Leadership. That new Leader could just as well be a Sixer him/herself.

    Also, what do you suggest then who would have the highest rank of command? The voted Mayor of Terra Nova or Taylor?

    I think Taylor did the best he could considering everything he went through. He made big sacrifices for the sake of the Colony and managed to make it grow to a well protected and prospering (almost) City.

    That Mira and the Sixers havent managed to accomplish their goals yet should be proof enough that he makes the right decisions, even if they are hard to understand.
    I find it interesting that every one of your points revolve around how things would affect the colony through their personal impact on Taylor.

    For the present, I agree that a civilian government might not be the best thing. This being said, in recent episodes we have been shown Taylor acting not necessarily against the good of the colony, but certainly for the good of special interest groups within the population. Would such actions disappear in a civilian government? No, but there would be some checks and balances in the system which seem to be lacking at present.

    What about an actual legal system? Prior to the arrival of Shannon, Taylor was the town cop, the prosecutor, the judge, jury and executioner(?), and Shannon was appointed and is answerable to Taylor. That might be okay for a while, but when does that system end?

    We have also seen him acting in ways to which citizens of any democratic society would object (holding people for extended periods for questioning, drugging them, not providing legal counsel...). Has Taylor managed to hide all of these actions he has taken from the general population? Or perhaps it is just that Taylor has not come "knocking" on their doors (yet) so they do not care. Would they take exception to Taylor giving orders to his troops to do search and seizures in their homes?

    (+1 for the possible Sixer running for political leader idea, it would make a really good storyline. )

    Assuming the colony were to create a civilian government, then the civilian leader would be the guy to whom Taylor would have to answer. (This assumes that Taylor would not assume a Cardinal Richelieu roll and become the power behind the throne.) The civilian leader could also, quite possibly, be the guy to protect Taylor. Right now, Taylor is in a vulnerable position with regard to his running the colony. What if the legitimate government in 2149 decided they no longer wanted Taylor in charge? If they sent along a real general (not a Sixer crony) to relieve Taylor, how much legitimacy would he have to take command? As Jelgate has noted, Terra Nova is being treated as a military establishment. So, it would become a question of whether Taylor obeyed the orders of his superiors (in 2149), or, assuming he did not stand down, how many (if any) of the military forces of Terra Nova would side with the legitimate military leader and how many would mutiny and support Taylor? And what of the general population? Would they have any say in these events? Not being armed, would either military camp care?

    There is no doubt that Taylor has made sacrifices for the colony, and that he is a really great leader who honestly believes that all of his decisions have been for the good of Terra Nova. Perhaps they have been, in fact, let's say that beyond a shadow of a doubt that they have been. Does this mean he should be the leader for the rest of his life? Does this mean that after Taylor dies that the next ranking officer or non-com becomes leader of Terra Nova?

    And while Mira and the Sixers have been held in check (so far), it may also be due to their lack of numbers, supplies and materials as it has to do with any decisions on the part to Taylor. Mira and the Sixers do not want to destroy Terra Nova. This makes Taylor's life a lot easier. If they chose, there are sufficient targets (people and property) which could be taken out by the Sixers. In a recent episode, other than a few bruises, an entire team of soldiers were released unhurt.

    Would the Sixers like to kill Taylor? Supposedly. The fact that they have not succeeded is because the writers do not want it to happen. For the number of times Taylor wanders off on his own, or with limited support (eg. fishing with Shannon), he should have been a casualty a long time ago. Maybe they're just incompetent.

    regards,
    G.
    Go for Marty...

  7. #7
    Captain tomstone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Politics in Terra Nova

    Quote Originally Posted by Gollumpus View Post
    I find it interesting that every one of your points revolve around how things would affect the colony through their personal impact on Taylor.

    For the present, I agree that a civilian government might not be the best thing. This being said, in recent episodes we have been shown Taylor acting not necessarily against the good of the colony, but certainly for the good of special interest groups within the population. Would such actions disappear in a civilian government? No, but there would be some checks and balances in the system which seem to be lacking at present.

    What about an actual legal system? Prior to the arrival of Shannon, Taylor was the town cop, the prosecutor, the judge, jury and executioner(?), and Shannon was appointed and is answerable to Taylor. That might be okay for a while, but when does that system end?

    We have also seen him acting in ways to which citizens of any democratic society would object (holding people for extended periods for questioning, drugging them, not providing legal counsel...). Has Taylor managed to hide all of these actions he has taken from the general population? Or perhaps it is just that Taylor has not come "knocking" on their doors (yet) so they do not care. Would they take exception to Taylor giving orders to his troops to do search and seizures in their homes?

    (+1 for the possible Sixer running for political leader idea, it would make a really good storyline. )

    Assuming the colony were to create a civilian government, then the civilian leader would be the guy to whom Taylor would have to answer. (This assumes that Taylor would not assume a Cardinal Richelieu roll and become the power behind the throne.) The civilian leader could also, quite possibly, be the guy to protect Taylor. Right now, Taylor is in a vulnerable position with regard to his running the colony. What if the legitimate government in 2149 decided they no longer wanted Taylor in charge? If they sent along a real general (not a Sixer crony) to relieve Taylor, how much legitimacy would he have to take command? As Jelgate has noted, Terra Nova is being treated as a military establishment. So, it would become a question of whether Taylor obeyed the orders of his superiors (in 2149), or, assuming he did not stand down, how many (if any) of the military forces of Terra Nova would side with the legitimate military leader and how many would mutiny and support Taylor? And what of the general population? Would they have any say in these events? Not being armed, would either military camp care?

    There is no doubt that Taylor has made sacrifices for the colony, and that he is a really great leader who honestly believes that all of his decisions have been for the good of Terra Nova. Perhaps they have been, in fact, let's say that beyond a shadow of a doubt that they have been. Does this mean he should be the leader for the rest of his life? Does this mean that after Taylor dies that the next ranking officer or non-com becomes leader of Terra Nova?

    And while Mira and the Sixers have been held in check (so far), it may also be due to their lack of numbers, supplies and materials as it has to do with any decisions on the part to Taylor. Mira and the Sixers do not want to destroy Terra Nova. This makes Taylor's life a lot easier. If they chose, there are sufficient targets (people and property) which could be taken out by the Sixers. In a recent episode, other than a few bruises, an entire team of soldiers were released unhurt.

    Would the Sixers like to kill Taylor? Supposedly. The fact that they have not succeeded is because the writers do not want it to happen. For the number of times Taylor wanders off on his own, or with limited support (eg. fishing with Shannon), he should have been a casualty a long time ago. Maybe they're just incompetent.

    regards,
    G.
    Well, I cant argue with most of your points since I agree. Though I think that when the Time comes where he has to tell the Truth to everyone, then I think most of Terra Nova will stand behind him to protect what they build together.

    I dont really know if a wish for freedom would appear that soon. People have a 300% better life than back home and there is no real reason to think about that stuff. So I guess you are right and they are just content and lazy at the moment.

    When I mentioned the Sixers, I was more trying to show that they have been held in Check for 2 reasons. Taylor may have made a Jail out of Terra Nova that nobody can leave without him knowing about it, but if more People would be against him, I am pretty sure there would be groups trying to support the Sixers more and Taylor wouldnt be able to do anything about that except expelling them once he finds out.

    I think a spokesperson for the Civilians would be a good Idea, but not in the sense of any authority. If the people split up into Civilian and Military it wont be to long before trouble, for example in a Dangerous situation Taylor and the Civilian Leader dont get to the same decision in a argument and each does there own thing which in the end cant work at all without some coordination between the 2 sides. Also I dont think any appointed Civilian would be able to negociate with the Sixers or be a Spokesperson to Hope Plaza. The People in the Future wont like that at all, except for the ones behind the Sixers.

    Taylors strolls are kind of stupid I must admit. The way that guy runs around in the Jungle you would expect him to be either captured or killed in no time. Not to mention that every time I see him, I cant help but think hes gay.
    Last edited by tomstone; November 23rd, 2011 at 10:09 AM.
    Fuzzy Wuzzy wasnt old,
    Fuzzy Wuzzy gotten bald
    There was Fuzzy no more Wuzzy

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Politics in Terra Nova

    When I lived in Texas my hunting club had a little sign over the door and it said,
    "When White Man came to this country, men hunted and fished all day, there no taxes, and women did all the work. What made them think they could improve upon that?"

    The Terra Nova folks have it pretty good and Taylor runs the community better than any civilian government could hope to.

  9. #9
    Captain Gollumpus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Politics in Terra Nova

    Quote Originally Posted by morrismike View Post
    When I lived in Texas my hunting club had a little sign over the door and it said,
    "When White Man came to this country, men hunted and fished all day, there no taxes, and women did all the work. What made them think they could improve upon that?"

    The Terra Nova folks have it pretty good and Taylor runs the community better than any civilian government could hope to.
    Okay by me.

    So, what happens when tomorrow morning, Taylor slips in the shower or falls down a flight of stairs and breaks his neck? What happens if he goes on one of his solo jaunts and never comes home? Who takes over next? This is a question which I feel should be addressed.

    Taylor runs the place partly on ability and partly on charisma. What if the next military leader (likely Washington?) is lacking in either, or both, of those qualities? Does she stay in command of the colony merely because the Terra Nova military answers to her? And what if Washington has an mis-hap?

    regards,
    G.
    Last edited by Gollumpus; November 24th, 2011 at 09:04 PM. Reason: typo
    Go for Marty...

  10. #10
    Captain tomstone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Politics in Terra Nova

    Quote Originally Posted by Gollumpus View Post
    Okay by me.

    So, what happens when tomorrow morning, Taylor slips in the shower or falls down a flight of stairs and breaks his neck? What happens if he goes on one of his solo jaunts and never comes home? Who takes over next? This is a question which I feel should be addressed.

    Taylor runs the place partly on ability and partly on charisma. What if the next military leader (likely Washington?) is lacking in either, or both, of those qualities? Does she stay in command of the colony merely because the Terra Nova military answers to her? And what if Washington has an mis-hap?

    regards,
    G.
    Duh, they start their cloning machine. They can open a Portal through time, surely they got cloning down.
    Fuzzy Wuzzy wasnt old,
    Fuzzy Wuzzy gotten bald
    There was Fuzzy no more Wuzzy

  11. #11
    Captain Gollumpus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Politics in Terra Nova

    Quote Originally Posted by tomstone View Post
    Duh, they start their cloning machine. They can open a Portal through time, surely they got cloning down.


    regards,
    G.
    Go for Marty...

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