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  1. #1
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    Default FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    Okay I've seen a lot of stuff about Destiny's FTL drives actually hyperdrives slowed down to compromise with damage taken while not in FTL. Now don't yell at me since I'm only 14 but i've paid attention to the show and details that a lot of people seem to not notice or ignore. Heres my theory, what if the Ancients built Destiny with FTL drives originally meant for traveling faster than light and not being affected by time dialation. Future ships used hyper drives since they arent affected by star gravity or unseen odjects in the way. To me it seems right and that everything Rush says about where they are seem like estimated guesses to. Hundreds of thousands of years old was corrected when Volker says in Resurgences that the ship 60+ million year old hull gives while hooked to a seed ship in FTL. Anyone got better idea and don't throw a bunch of numbers in my face about speeds and junk. And if you want a theory about destiny's gates then let me know cause it would at least make since about why there are different gates used while getting from the Ancients home galaxy long before Destiny's gates were built.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    Welcome to Gateworld. Unfortunately I don't understand what it is you're trying to say.

  3. #3
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    i am not certain what your point is.


    FTL is a system not unlike hyperdrives. especially if we look at Grace where Prometheus uses it's hyperdrive to phase out enough to start the engines.


    FTL on destiny likely is a primitive hyperdrive. it's suggested/hinted at that Hyperspace has "layers" and that certain layers are "deeper". other theories are possible, but this layer theory basically says that FTL is a very shallow form of hyperspace where the ship is basically in a very small, unstable tunnel (unlike the endlesss tunnels we observe on Hyperdrive-propelled ships).

    that tunnel is still in "realspace" but the exotic properties of space around the ship give the benefits of Hyperspace.


    Hyperspace by the way is affected by gravity, but not as much. a supernova is merely enough to damage a few systems and will not rip a ship to shreds.



    i say you forget the 50 mil figure on the first Milkyway gate as timing-wise it does not fit. plus it's the only figure we ever had on it so it's ignorable.

    (Destiny was launched at the height. the height would be before the plague struck. we have 2 figures of atlantis leaving after the plague, namely 5-10 and 7 million years. Atlantis left after/during the plague, so the project would be like 15 million years back, max )


    the actual arrival of the Ancients has always been vague. only 1 figure is ever given and it is so ridiculous that i believe it simply CAN NOT be true. a million years ago the human race did not even exist and our predecessors neither. everything the ancients ever did fits in a million years.

    granted things like Atlantis push this back somewhat, but even 10 million years is enough to build a galactic empire.

  4. #4
    Chief Master Sergeant SGSargon's Avatar
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    i say you forget the 50 mil figure on the first Milkyway gate as timing-wise it does not fit. plus it's the only figure we ever had on it so it's ignorable.
    I won't be so sure. The Lost City part 2, Taonas outpost:
    (The image changes to a single sun and its planets.)

    CARTER: That's our solar system. (The image homes in on the third planet). Earth!

    TEAL'C (looking at the shapes of the continents): That does not appear to be Earth.

    JACKSON: That's because it doesn't take into consideration thirty million years of continental drift.
    The image from the episode:
    http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/dis..._display_media
    And if we look at real life simulation:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQVoSyVu9rk#at=80
    http://www.sciencephoto.com/media/168671/enlarge
    We see that they're pretty close.

    Also, we see another image of Earth's continents (the first image of Earth from the holographic representation), where Africa and South America are very close to each other:
    http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/dis..._display_media
    Earth continents 65 million years ago:
    http://forum.celestialmatters.org/us..._065Ma1k_1.jpg
    Fits in the 60-50 million years timeline.
    It's all about startegy. Out-maneuvering the opposition, bending him to your will.
    -Dexter-

  5. #5
    Chief Master Sergeant JamesPeterson's Avatar
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    Are you asking if FTL is just a hyperdrive that's broken? No, I don't think so. They're portrayed as completely different systems.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    What was saying is that some people were talking about Destiny's 'hyperdrives' were damaged and Destiny tried to fix them resulting in the FTL drives we see today. I was going that Destiny never had Hyper drives like the ancients used later on. Thats all so don't yell at me for a little thought I had but thanks for clearing that up.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    Ah....

    No. Destiny's engines are the predecessors or fore-runners of the hyperdrives in use "today".

  8. #8
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    I won't be so sure. The Lost City part 2, Taonas outpost:
    30 million years is not 50. but thanks, forgot about that one.


    still not sure on the timeline of the plague though. it's a pretty important piece in backtracking the launch of Destiny

  9. #9
    Captain Quadhelix's Avatar
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    FTL on destiny likely is a primitive hyperdrive.
    The problem with that idea is that it conflicts with "Enemies" from SG-1. Between "Sabotage" and "Pain," the Destiny's FTL managed to cross a million-plus light-year gap between galaxies. Although we don't know the exact distance or the exact travel time, it seems to have made the journey in less than two months (TJ was 22 weeks pregnant in "Lost," and Destiny was sitting still for several weeks in "Lost"; moreover, Greer's wound from "Pain" was healed by "Subversion") and the distance has to have been greater than a million light-years (a 5% increase in efficiency was enough to make up for a 50,000 light-year shortfall).


    Conversely, in "Enemies," the hyperdrive on the Goa'uld ship was slow enough that it would have taken 125 years to travel the 4 million light-years back to the Milky Way had the Replicators not upgraded the ship's engines.

    The conflict, of course, is that the Destiny's "primitive hyperdrive" is faster than the complete hyperdrive on the Goa'uld ship.
    "From East Middle School. Suzumiya Haruhi. I have no interest in ordinary humans. If there are any aliens, time travelers, sliders, or espers here, come join me."
    - The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya; Best Character Introduction Ever.

    "And can we lose the ten thousand year old dead plants?!"
    - Stargate: Atlantis (1x03) "Hide and Seek"

    "Hammerheads do not load/unload units immediately – they must descend to ground level first. Initial experiments involving jump-jetting infantry into the Hammerhead’s cargo compartment met with unfortunate results."
    - Command&Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath Hammerhead Unit Spotlight

  10. #10
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    Scripting errors?

  11. #11
    Captain Quadhelix's Avatar
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quizziard View Post
    Scripting errors?
    I think that you're joking. If you aren't, then my reply is:

    When Carter got the origin of O'neill's power device wrong in "Point of View," that was a scripting error. When it is repeatedly a plot point that many normal hyperdrives are too slow for practical intergalactic travel (e.g., "Enemies," much of Atlantis, but especially "Aurora" and "Allies") while it is also a plot point that Destiny's FTL is fast enough for practical intergalactic travel ("Sabotage," "Gauntlet"), it strongly implies a conscious decision on the part of the writers.

    In short, the show presents a fair amount of evidence against the idea that Destiny's FTL is a primitive hyperdrive, while I have seen little more than wishful thinking in favor of the idea.
    "From East Middle School. Suzumiya Haruhi. I have no interest in ordinary humans. If there are any aliens, time travelers, sliders, or espers here, come join me."
    - The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya; Best Character Introduction Ever.

    "And can we lose the ten thousand year old dead plants?!"
    - Stargate: Atlantis (1x03) "Hide and Seek"

    "Hammerheads do not load/unload units immediately – they must descend to ground level first. Initial experiments involving jump-jetting infantry into the Hammerhead’s cargo compartment met with unfortunate results."
    - Command&Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath Hammerhead Unit Spotlight

  12. #12
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    No - I wasn't joking (though my choice of words was imprecise).

    Scripting oversight. They had forgotten about the details from earlier SG-1 episodes and what it implied about hyperdrive capabilities. I still believe that, given the massive age difference, that FTL is nothing but very primitive hyperdrive. In the same way that steam engines are early versions of Formula 1 or Nascar engines.

  13. #13
    First Lieutenant Nth Chevron's Avatar
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    After re-watching the entire show on DVD (1080p Upscaled ) i noticed the way the FTL field envelops Destiny, i know there are FTL "modules" in the engine section of the ship so i think we all assumed they were engines "pushing" Destiny at FTL speeds.

    After watching the FTL field it looked to me, more like Destiny was creating like a vacuum funnel infront of itself and it was pulling Destiny along, almost like the slipstream method from Andromeda just without the twists and turns and actual attaching strings.

    Watch the way the light effect behaves around Destiny, which admittedly could be just for show, but the way they move just randomly reminded me of what Mckay said in "Tao of Rodney," he says "I just realised why light acts as particles and waves."

    Looking at the light effect field of Destinys FTL i'd say it looks a hell of a lot like fluid light waves, bending, changing, merging, mingling etc etc

    N.C

  14. #14
    Captain Quadhelix's Avatar
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quizziard View Post
    Scripting oversight. They had forgotten about the details from earlier SG-1 episodes and what it implied about hyperdrive capabilities.
    Given how central of plot point Wraith hyperdrives' slow speed of was in Atlantis, etc., I don't think that that is particularly likely. It would be like forgetting that Stargates operate by dialing addresses.

    Also, although you have been making effort after effort to deny the evidence that weighs against you, I still have yet to see you present any evidence that actually supports your position beyond, "The Destiny is really old."


    Quote Originally Posted by Quizziard View Post
    I still believe that, given the massive age difference, that FTL is nothing but very primitive hyperdrive.
    Except that the Goa'uld (you remember them, right) had even more primitive hyperdrives than the Ancients would have had at the time they launched Destiny. Remember, by the time the Ancients launched Destiny, they had already migrated over intergalactic distances to escape the Ori (you remember them, too, right). Conversely, the Goa'uld spent pretty much the entirety of they civilization locked in a single galaxy using hyperdrives.



    Quote Originally Posted by Quizziard View Post
    In the same way that steam engines are early versions of Formula 1 or Nascar engines.
    This overlooks the possibility that they could be two completely different forms of propulsion that happen to serve similar purposes, like jets and propellers.

    Specifically, the first jet engine (also the first steam engine) was invented in the 1st century. Jet/rocket engines were used to propel fireworks as early as the 13th century (see also: here).

    Conversely, the first propeller driven device (a steam ship) was apparently made in 1827. Following that, the first manned aircraft, launched in 1903, was propeller-driven.

    By your logic (newer drives replace older ones), the propeller should have completely supplanted the older rocket/jet-propulsion systems. Instead, there came a point where the older method of propulsion, namely jets and rockets, came to almost completely supplant the the newer method - with the exception of helicopters, the vast majority of modern aircraft are jet-propelled.
    "From East Middle School. Suzumiya Haruhi. I have no interest in ordinary humans. If there are any aliens, time travelers, sliders, or espers here, come join me."
    - The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya; Best Character Introduction Ever.

    "And can we lose the ten thousand year old dead plants?!"
    - Stargate: Atlantis (1x03) "Hide and Seek"

    "Hammerheads do not load/unload units immediately – they must descend to ground level first. Initial experiments involving jump-jetting infantry into the Hammerhead’s cargo compartment met with unfortunate results."
    - Command&Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath Hammerhead Unit Spotlight

  15. #15
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    Actually, I think my analogy is perfect: there are still plenty (okay, a fairly small number) of steam trains whilst diesel and electric trains also run. And they're not necessarily directly comparable - more by way of being an early form a and a later form of propulsion for the transport type...

  16. #16
    Captain Quadhelix's Avatar
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quizziard View Post
    Actually, I think my analogy is perfect
    What you think is irrelevant: all that matters is the evidence and you have yet to present any.

    To put it another way: why should we use the "developing internal combustion engine" analogy instead of the "jet/rocket vs. propellers" analogy? What evidence (from the show) supports your analogy, other than the Destiny's age?
    "From East Middle School. Suzumiya Haruhi. I have no interest in ordinary humans. If there are any aliens, time travelers, sliders, or espers here, come join me."
    - The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya; Best Character Introduction Ever.

    "And can we lose the ten thousand year old dead plants?!"
    - Stargate: Atlantis (1x03) "Hide and Seek"

    "Hammerheads do not load/unload units immediately – they must descend to ground level first. Initial experiments involving jump-jetting infantry into the Hammerhead’s cargo compartment met with unfortunate results."
    - Command&Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath Hammerhead Unit Spotlight

  17. #17
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    Easy tiger....

    None whatsoever. And frankly, who cares?

  18. #18
    Captain Quadhelix's Avatar
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quizziard View Post
    None whatsoever. And frankly, who cares?
    "Who cares" about what?

    About the fact that your position has no evidence to support it? Honestly, that isn't even an issue.

    About the fact that you are representing your position as though it were incontrovertible when, in fact, it has no evidence to support it? About the fact that you represent your position as what the writers actually intended when there is no evidence to suggest it? I care very much.
    "From East Middle School. Suzumiya Haruhi. I have no interest in ordinary humans. If there are any aliens, time travelers, sliders, or espers here, come join me."
    - The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya; Best Character Introduction Ever.

    "And can we lose the ten thousand year old dead plants?!"
    - Stargate: Atlantis (1x03) "Hide and Seek"

    "Hammerheads do not load/unload units immediately – they must descend to ground level first. Initial experiments involving jump-jetting infantry into the Hammerhead’s cargo compartment met with unfortunate results."
    - Command&Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath Hammerhead Unit Spotlight

  19. #19
    Chief Master Sergeant satnamboll28's Avatar
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    hmm...
    @quadhelix-i did post something about this ftl drive stuff...in another thread..what if this ftl drive can't go above a certain speed in galaxy due to gravitational effects? however, the space between galaxies is pretty much empty of any such effects, and therefore the ftl can accelerate much better than in galaxy? hence the speedy journey times?
    with this being a shallow layer, unknown gravity fields can affect the ship etc? and also the kinda cool travel effect during ftl as a result of the shallow layer?

    @nthchevron- perhaps the ftl drive tunnels through a layer of sub space, and this particular layer acts like a magnet when you enter its domain?

    also, with the 4 hour use thing- perhaps there is some kind of radiation that can't be channelled effectively, thus using the ftl for under 4 hours causes a build up damaging the drives?

  20. #20
    First Lieutenant Nth Chevron's Avatar
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    Or the 4 hour window could be the time it takes to discharge some kind of subspace static from the friction caused when passing into this "low-level subspace," also for the time until they can be used again could be just a cooldown method like some modern day machines require.

    N.C

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