FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

[AlexanderD]

Thank you!

[satnamboll28]

The problem wit this is that it raises the question of why there is the radiation build-up when the ship jumps into the "shallow" layer of subspace, but not the deeper layer used by hyperdrives - it seems like, if anything, the problem should come from jumping into the deeper layer only.


The problem with this idea is that Destiny's FTL is actually faster than most hyperdrives, such as those used by the Goa'uld. If Destiny's FTL is more primitive than hyperdrives, then weren't the Goa'uld using that form of FTL when it is faster than their "more advanced" drives?

hmmmm.....
perhaps the transition into and out of this shallow layer, isn't without some kind of side effects...ftl engines can handle pretty much all of it, except for perhaps 1% of this particulate matter, which can be dealt with, but only after 4 hours? like some kind of dimensional barrier, that can only be traversed by some subtle manipulation of space time...
within this shallow layer of sub space, it is so close to normal space, that the radiation and other em energy in the galaxies etc, are enough to leak through this layer, hence the engines needing to run for 4 hours to dissipate this radiation?

With the seed ships having already traversed the space ahead of destiny, it's preprogrammed course will allow it to travel the fastest throughout the galaxy in question, thereby it's HD like speed. with the stars etc already plotted, it's much easier for destiny to go through with its jumps..

the ftl is faster than the goauld hd, probably because they don't fully understand sub space? weak argument perhaps, but most likely true..

FTL + HD- for a given amount of power, ftl is faster and more durable, especially between galaxies...with the close proximity of the sub space layer to normal space, perhaps its limited purely because of the make up of the universe?

but with the hd engines, perhaps it allows for more power to be pushed through, allowing it's engines to manipulate space time faster thereby increasing it's overall speed? like the asgard hd on the daedalus- zpm available, hd can be pushed to max..so far we've only seen the ftl engines on destiny operate with limited power levels..what would happen if it had it's own power generation capabilities allowing near seed ship levels of power to be applied? would we see a far faster vessel? too bad they didn't show it on the show..might have been interesting....

@alexanderD- nice obs...
@crias- i was thinking the same, just not stellar winds...but that does make sense...

[AlexanderD]

Inefficient power generation is a theme that has played out again and again. It could be that the Goa'uld system for power generation simply lacks the massive outputs required for hyperspace speeds similar to other advanced races.

[satnamboll28]

Inefficient power generation is a theme that has played out again and again. It could be that the Goa'uld system for power generation simply lacks the massive outputs required for hyperspace speeds similar to other advanced races.

That and the fact that the goauld basically suck. perhaps there engines, power generation etc, whilst superior to anything that earth has (pre asgard gifts of course) are basically knock offs of the original tech that they discovered millennia ago?
with regards to power generation- perhaps the ancients long ago discovered that power was basically the single most important factor in tech? with so much more available, they could push their own tech to the max- zpm applied hyperdrive is so much faster than normal HD.
I did have a theory however, re the ftl/ hd drive engines. ftl works in a shallow layer, super fast between the void, kinda slow in the galaxy due to the EM energies leaking through etc. long lasting, long running, but has to be run for 4 hours due to transitions between normal space and shallow space?
hd- can manipulate space/time on a deeper level than ftl, faster (with more power), not affected by steller gravity etc, but it is affected by black holes, quasars (pulsars?).
my theory is this- as gravity is prevalent throughout the universe, perhaps only gravity of a type from black holes and other dense matter, can actually affect the hd engines when jumping into or in such a deep layer of subspace?

[AlexanderD]

If you look at the copying of any technology you'll see a continuing trend. What might that trend be? A copy is a recreation of a device without the understanding of science behind it. Lacking this understanding, and the surrounding technological breakthroughs that led up to the device being created lends itself to an inferior recreation. It's a bit like buying a knock off Ipad. Sure, it looks the same. It just doesn't quite perform up to the standard of the original.

[Quadhelix]

Has anyone stopped to consider that a non-hyperspace means of propulsion was necessitated by the overall mission itself? As Destiny travels though the universe, sensors detect and record the cosmic microwave background radiation. Were Destiny to utilize hyperspace propulsion, constant monitoring of that background radiation might not have been possible. Moving at faster than light speeds in normal space, vast distances could be covered while also maintaining the ability to capture and record the data needed. Just a thought.

The problem with that idea is that Rush makes it fairly clear in "Gauntlet" that, if they just skip past the galaxy, they might miss part of the "message." If Destiny were capable of making its observations while in FTL, that would not be an issue.

Inefficient power generation is a theme that has played out again and again. It could be that the Goa'uld system for power generation simply lacks the massive outputs required for hyperspace speeds similar to other advanced races.

This is only part of the picture; remember "Aurora"? In that episode, we learned that, "there are two different types of Ancient hyperdrive: there's the more basic interstellar kind, like the one the Aurora has; and then there's the more powerful intergalactic kind, similar to the one the Asgard provided us for the Daedalus."

We also learn that, using the Aurora's standard interstellar hyperdrive, "it'll take months to return to Atlantis." Since the Pegasus galaxy is only about 4,000 light-years across, a travel time of "months" to get from one part to another translates to an upper limit on the Aurora's speed of about 2,000 light-years per month, or about 24,000 light-years per year. At that speed, it would take an Aurora-type ship about 170 years to travel 4 million light-years, making the Aurora at least a third slower than Chronos's Mothership in "Exodus."

In other words, even with the Ancient's advanced power generation, their run of the mill hyperdrives are still agonizingly slow compared to Destiny's FTL.

[Amelius]

Has anyone stopped to consider that a non-hyperspace means of propulsion was necessitated by the overall mission itself? As Destiny travels though the universe, sensors detect and record the cosmic microwave background radiation. Were Destiny to utilize hyperspace propulsion, constant monitoring of that background radiation might not have been possible. Moving at faster than light speeds in normal space, vast distances could be covered while also maintaining the ability to capture and record the data needed. Just a thought.

Aww, you stole my answer lol That was my impression as well. In "Fail Safe" (SG-1) "We take it out of normal space long enough to avoid the collision with Earth." Taking the ship out of normal space (essentially making it pass through normal matter and energy) would probably stop them from detecting the Background Radiation as it may just pass through them (and more importantly the sensors) as well.

The problem with that idea is that Rush makes it fairly clear in "Gauntlet" that, if they just skip past the galaxy, they might miss part of the "message." If Destiny were capable of making its observations while in FTL, that would not be an issue.

WALLACE: So, we skip it. One continuous F.T.L. jump out and around the length of this galaxy, across the gap to the next one until we reach the first Gate on the other side.

RUSH: Destiny is on this path for a reason.
ARMSTRONG: But we're not going off the path - at least, not for good. We're just skipping part of it.
RUSH: Yeah, well that's what bothers me. This ship was launched to solve a mystery, not by arriving at some ultimate destination where all the questions are answered at one time, but by accumulating knowledge bit by bit. If we skip over this galaxy, then who's to say we won't skip over some vital piece of the puzzle - and then all of this, everything we've been through, could be for nothing.

He's not worried about missing anything because they're not leaving FTL, he's worried because they're changing course. They aren't going where Destiny wants to go which means they miss that part of the puzzle completely.

[AlexanderD]

Aww, you stole my answer lol That was my impression as well. In "Fail Safe" (SG-1) "We take it out of normal space long enough to avoid the collision with Earth." Taking the ship out of normal space (essentially making it pass through normal matter and energy) would probably stop them from detecting the Background Radiation as it may just pass through them (and more importantly the sensors) as well.


WALLACE: So, we skip it. One continuous F.T.L. jump out and around the length of this galaxy, across the gap to the next one until we reach the first Gate on the other side.

RUSH: Destiny is on this path for a reason.
ARMSTRONG: But we're not going off the path - at least, not for good. We're just skipping part of it.
RUSH: Yeah, well that's what bothers me. This ship was launched to solve a mystery, not by arriving at some ultimate destination where all the questions are answered at one time, but by accumulating knowledge bit by bit. If we skip over this galaxy, then who's to say we won't skip over some vital piece of the puzzle - and then all of this, everything we've been through, could be for nothing.

He's not worried about missing anything because they're not leaving FTL, he's worried because they're changing course. They aren't going where Destiny wants to go which means they miss that part of the puzzle completely.

Great minds think alike lol.

[jeri]

Aww, you stole my answer lol That was my impression as well. In "Fail Safe" (SG-1) "We take it out of normal space long enough to avoid the collision with Earth." Taking the ship out of normal space (essentially making it pass through normal matter and energy) would probably stop them from detecting the Background Radiation as it may just pass through them (and more importantly the sensors) as well.


WALLACE: So, we skip it. One continuous F.T.L. jump out and around the length of this galaxy, across the gap to the next one until we reach the first Gate on the other side.

RUSH: Destiny is on this path for a reason.
ARMSTRONG: But we're not going off the path - at least, not for good. We're just skipping part of it.
RUSH: Yeah, well that's what bothers me. This ship was launched to solve a mystery, not by arriving at some ultimate destination where all the questions are answered at one time, but by accumulating knowledge bit by bit. If we skip over this galaxy, then who's to say we won't skip over some vital piece of the puzzle - and then all of this, everything we've been through, could be for nothing.

He's not worried about missing anything because they're not leaving FTL, he's worried because they're changing course. They aren't going where Destiny wants to go which means they miss that part of the puzzle completely.

I nice to read that someone was actually paying attention to the show. I thought it was explained well enough right there, thanks, Amelius.

[mikebmix]

let me see if i can explain this how im thinking it,hyper space is a tear in space by which you do not move and space moves around you,thats why they call it a hyper space window,you fly into it and it pulls you though,its a regon of space that takes Quantum Mechanics and throws it out the window because your no longer moveing in real space,FTL means faster then light travel meaning the ship itself is moves though reguler space faster then the speed of light,which is faster well now faster then light is pretty fast i would think that moveing though hyperspace would be faster because you dont have to worry about all those planets and stars getting in the way,but in a strait line [from galaxy to galaxy there is no stars to contend with]pretty much go till you get there,FTL could be just as fast if you didnt have to go around so many stars and things,mayby thats was the way they traveled to other galaxys this way,but moving within a galaxy its to much to go around every star,so the very first hyper drives where only desgned to travel within a galaxy,it wouldnt have to go faster then light just a strait line,so to go faster in hyper space it would be like driveing at 60 mph on the deck of an aircraft carrier and it going 60 you would be going 120,the first hyper drives took alot of power,and it was like the aircraft carrier moving same speed but you are going 10 mph,then the zpm came along allowing them to use power form subspace meaning not more power but the same amount for a longer poied of time,better aaa batterie same volt just last longer,i have come up with these ideas though studies i have done on basic Quantum Mechanics and of corse watching sg1,sga,sgu,that and the fact that there writers have been know to resarch some things before hand,its cool they use Stephen William Hawkings work all the time,that is why stargate could be real and star trek is a dream,besides it take the apllo kie 3 weeks to move beteewn galaxys,and it takes destiny what like 2 mounths from what another post i read said,not shure but closes thing i could com up with

[mikebmix]

Has anyone stopped to consider that a non-hyperspace means of propulsion was necessitated by the overall mission itself? As Destiny travels though the universe, sensors detect and record the cosmic microwave background radiation. Were Destiny to utilize hyperspace propulsion, constant monitoring of that background radiation might not have been possible. Moving at faster than light speeds in normal space, vast distances could be covered while also maintaining the ability to capture and record the data needed. Just a thought

that is a well thought out answer as to why they didnt put hyper drive on deatiny,good show old boy,that radio wave had to be tracked right,but what if the seed ships tracked it and destiny only had to follow the path of the seeds ships,dont the seed ships relay info back to destiny though subspace,doesnt rush tell every one that while there watch the path of destiny or was it later on in the season not shure but i remeber that some where anyways good show,

[psl1]

I have a query related to the VTL drive and the SGU final episode. Going on what’s been said here the distance to the next galaxy is a million Light years [give or take] and they planned to make a jump from only 1/3 into this new galaxy across the void to the new galaxy.

Now I have no idea what the existing SGU galaxy diameter was, but ours is about 100,000 light years and one third would suggest 65,000 light years to the edge for a total notional distance of about 1.065 million light years. If jumping the inter galaxy void is a normal function of Destiny mission then I assume damage to the VTL + the extra distance needed to jump + a gas tank that’s not full, is the combined problem that needs to shut down the life support.

What I was wondering was if they timed a jump to the edge of that galaxy to replenish the VTL drive just before the void jump would that allow the other systems to work and thus avoid the need for the ‘stasis’ pods? Then they would only have to plan another diversion type maneuver at the last gate to make the jump with life support to work.

OK any ideas?

[ficfox]

SGU's galaxy looks like it might be the Sombrero galaxy, which is 28-29 million lyrs distant and about 50,000-60,000 lyrs across. Skipping over 2/3 of the galaxy should improve their chances of finding a star without any enemy ships. Galaxies don't have discrete edges, so straggler stars should extend out a few thousand lyrs from the edge. There are even occasional orphans in the voids.

They would probably still use the stasis pods to avoid food shortages while in the void.

[psl1]

SGU's galaxy looks like it might be the Sombrero galaxy, which is 28-29 million lyrs distant and about 50,000-60,000 lyrs across. Skipping over 2/3 of the galaxy should improve their chances of finding a star without any enemy ships. Galaxies don't have discrete edges, so straggler stars should extend out a few thousand lyrs from the edge. There are even occasional orphans in the voids.

They would probably still use the stasis pods to avoid food shortages while in the void.

Yes but it should not have been the 'do or die' senario we were left with?

[Pamone]

I think there are only 5 types of Gates knows to the People of Earth or in existence of Real time. Those being the Milky-Way Gates, The Pegasis Gates, Ori Gates (not seen but exist), Seed Ship planted Gates (or the ones Destiny Has), and the Super Gates. At the time of both the Ori and Alterians they has what seemed like pre-Destiny Technology. THis meaning that the Gates then Had 9 chevrons and 38 symbols. When they lifted off from the mountains on celestus I believe they went into FTL, This gives support that Destiny Has Only FTL and not Hyper-drive in subspace. The Drive is not Hyper-Drive because you can see the outside influences outside of the ship and is not in Sub space. The time Dialation does not exist because the ancient communication devices donot have any time effect while in FTL or otherwise only distortion is Extreme Acceleration and Extreme Deceleration in which case the subspace link is unstable. This theory also disproves the time in which the ancients developed in the Milky-Way Galaxy lengthening the time period. There may be other Gates where the whole network was updates multiple times from the 38 symbols and 9 chevrons (Destiny Gates), to 39 symbols 9 chevrons (the Milky-Way Gates), to the no spin Gates (the Pegasus Gates), and the Multiple Segment Super Gates. This leaves Multiple different Gate Styles is differently developed Galaxies. Although I donot believe that Galaxies share DHD updates unless dialing that gate in the other galaxy. The Base Programing Must still be Very Similar in order for all 5 gate types to exist without problems. The Episode in SGU where the dialing to earth while in a sun caused the destiny to enter another universe parallel to the Original. With the new gates something like this could have been fixed in an update.