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  1. #21
    Chief Master Sergeant satnamboll28's Avatar
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    hmmm..
    perhaps there is a need to dissipate some kind of sub space radiation that is prevalent in that layer of subspace, and thus it needs to be dissipated safely..but this requires that the drives be used for 4 hours at least...similiar to what you've suggested...

  2. #22
    Lieutenant Colonel Rise Of The Phoenix's Avatar
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    Rush has said that Destiny doesn't use a hyperdrive engine or hyperdrive technology.

    As far as I'm aware the only other way that would allow a vessel to travel faster than the speed of light is to use a warp drive (alcubierre drive), so contracting space in front of a craft and expanding the space behind it.

    Destiny does appear to create some field around itself.

  3. #23
    Captain Quadhelix's Avatar
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    Quote Originally Posted by satnamboll28 View Post
    hmmm..
    perhaps there is a need to dissipate some kind of sub space radiation that is prevalent in that layer of subspace, and thus it needs to be dissipated safely..but this requires that the drives be used for 4 hours at least...similiar to what you've suggested...
    The problem with the idea that the problem comes from radiation exposure during the flight is that such exposure would not force them to keep the drives running. If anything, it would prevent them from running the drives for long periods of time (see, e.g., the Wraith, who must stop periodically due to prolonged exposure to radiation in hyperspace).

    Whatever causes the time limitations on Destiny's drives, it would have to be something that happens at the very beginning of a trip and at the very end, but not during the trip itself (or at least, to a much greater extent during the trip)



    Quote Originally Posted by Nth Chevron View Post
    Or the 4 hour window could be the time it takes to discharge some kind of subspace static from the friction caused when passing into this "low-level subspace," also for the time until they can be used again could be just a cooldown method like some modern day machines require.

    N.C
    Something like that seems reasonable - some sort of buildup of static or radiation when passing into and out of FTL.


    One idea that I had was that, if the FTL system is some sort of Alcubierre drive (or something similar), the Destiny might have to run its engines in reverse to leave FTL. If it had a problem with the engines overheating when run at the strength needed to enter and leave FTL, then they would have to cool off before they could be used again, either to drop out of FTL or to jump back into it.
    "From East Middle School. Suzumiya Haruhi. I have no interest in ordinary humans. If there are any aliens, time travelers, sliders, or espers here, come join me."
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    "And can we lose the ten thousand year old dead plants?!"
    - Stargate: Atlantis (1x03) "Hide and Seek"

    "Hammerheads do not load/unload units immediately – they must descend to ground level first. Initial experiments involving jump-jetting infantry into the Hammerhead’s cargo compartment met with unfortunate results."
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  4. #24
    First Lieutenant Nth Chevron's Avatar
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    One thing that doesnt corroborate the FTL question, is in the last ep of SGU, Eli's plan involves making a continuous uninterrupted jump from the drone galaxy to the next galaxy.

    This means there couldnt be a build up of energy in the FTL drives as a 3 year constant journey in FTL would most likely build such a force to such an extent as to force the engines to explode.

    It would most likely be something to do with returning the to normal space/slowing to sub-light speeds.

    N.C

  5. #25
    Chief Master Sergeant satnamboll28's Avatar
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    Perhaps we should use the onion universe analogy?
    Lets say the surface is where space as we know it exists.
    Beneath the surface just one layer beneath normal space (sub space or even under space) the physics are different, as this is a place where the laws as we know it don't function the way they do in normal space.
    Perhaps this layer, that exists directly under normal space is still extremely sensitive to gravitational disturbances, (hence the destiny doing what it did when it met that planet that wasn't there before, in faith?) but it still allows for hyperspace like speeds. Only thing is, the effort of handling this transition into this layer and out into normal space, causes perhaps a build up of exotic radiation, in the FTL engines, that will automatically dissipate after 4 hours via shielded systems that do so. At the time of launching, there was no known way to achieve FTL except this way, until the advent of HD engines that allowed for a ship to travel unhindered to a deeper layer, but this required exotic parts etc?
    Good thing about destiny FTL engines, is that they last for a very long time, and when travelling through the void that exists between galaxies, as there is no gravitational disturbances of the kind prevalent in galaxies due to steller matter, planets etc, the FTL drive speeds can be cranked up to HD level? This would allow the engines to go to max, while at the same time dissipating the exotic radiation build up that occurs during the first transition into/out of this layer?
    4 hour safety limit sorted, ftl at max, onward to the next galaxy. until transition out into normal space that is.

  6. #26
    Captain Quadhelix's Avatar
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    Quote Originally Posted by satnamboll28 View Post
    but it still allows for hyperspace like speeds. Only thing is, the effort of handling this transition into this layer and out into normal space, causes perhaps a build up of exotic radiation, in the FTL engines, that will automatically dissipate after 4 hours via shielded systems that do so.
    The problem wit this is that it raises the question of why there is the radiation build-up when the ship jumps into the "shallow" layer of subspace, but not the deeper layer used by hyperdrives - it seems like, if anything, the problem should come from jumping into the deeper layer only.


    Quote Originally Posted by satnamboll28 View Post
    At the time of launching, there was no known way to achieve FTL except this way, until the advent of HD engines that allowed for a ship to travel unhindered to a deeper layer, but this required exotic parts etc?
    The problem with this idea is that Destiny's FTL is actually faster than most hyperdrives, such as those used by the Goa'uld. If Destiny's FTL is more primitive than hyperdrives, then weren't the Goa'uld using that form of FTL when it is faster than their "more advanced" drives?
    "From East Middle School. Suzumiya Haruhi. I have no interest in ordinary humans. If there are any aliens, time travelers, sliders, or espers here, come join me."
    - The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya; Best Character Introduction Ever.

    "And can we lose the ten thousand year old dead plants?!"
    - Stargate: Atlantis (1x03) "Hide and Seek"

    "Hammerheads do not load/unload units immediately – they must descend to ground level first. Initial experiments involving jump-jetting infantry into the Hammerhead’s cargo compartment met with unfortunate results."
    - Command&Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath Hammerhead Unit Spotlight

  7. #27
    Chief Master Sergeant Crias's Avatar
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    Well maybe the solution to a build up of “exotic particles” could simply be normal radiation. If destiny is in a “shallow” frequency of subspace it would still be subject to some of our laws of physics yes? it would be subject to radiation from the stellar winds that would be slamming the ship (causing the visible aurora effect of the FTL.)
    But I was thinking about this on my own a few months back and I had thought that destiny was simply in a very shallow pocket of subspace that was so shallow that it was still subject to the effects of relativity. Because the ship was still affected by relativity the ancients wove a time dilation device into the FTL engines so that just as the ship entered FTL the time device would engage and the crew could remain in normal time flow and so able to communicate with home as normal. This theory would also explain why the communication stones are interrupted when the ship goes into and out of FTL and the blur effect that we see as well as why it is so complex to add time to the countdown clock. But that’s just my thoughts anyway lol

  8. #28
    Captain Quadhelix's Avatar
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crias View Post
    Well maybe the solution to a build up of “exotic particles” could simply be normal radiation.
    What do build-ups or exotic particles have to do with Destiny's FTL?


    Quote Originally Posted by Crias View Post
    But I was thinking about this on my own a few months back and I had thought that destiny was simply in a very shallow pocket of subspace that was so shallow that it was still subject to the effects of relativity. Because the ship was still affected by relativity the ancients wove a time dilation device into the FTL engines so that just as the ship entered FTL the time device would engage and the crew could remain in normal time flow and so able to communicate with home as normal. This theory would also explain why the communication stones are interrupted when the ship goes into and out of FTL and the blur effect that we see as well as why it is so complex to add time to the countdown clock.
    They problem with this idea is that relativity stops making meaningful predictions once relative speeds exceed the speed of light. Time dilation is an effect you would expect to see at sublight speeds; once speeds become greater than the speed of light, the equations of relativity start to turn out what looks like gibberish.
    "From East Middle School. Suzumiya Haruhi. I have no interest in ordinary humans. If there are any aliens, time travelers, sliders, or espers here, come join me."
    - The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya; Best Character Introduction Ever.

    "And can we lose the ten thousand year old dead plants?!"
    - Stargate: Atlantis (1x03) "Hide and Seek"

    "Hammerheads do not load/unload units immediately – they must descend to ground level first. Initial experiments involving jump-jetting infantry into the Hammerhead’s cargo compartment met with unfortunate results."
    - Command&Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath Hammerhead Unit Spotlight

  9. #29
    Pistachio
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    Has anyone stopped to consider that a non-hyperspace means of propulsion was necessitated by the overall mission itself? As Destiny travels though the universe, sensors detect and record the cosmic microwave background radiation. Were Destiny to utilize hyperspace propulsion, constant monitoring of that background radiation might not have been possible. Moving at faster than light speeds in normal space, vast distances could be covered while also maintaining the ability to capture and record the data needed. Just a thought.

  10. #30
    Chief Master Sergeant kimmyg's Avatar
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexanderD View Post
    Has anyone stopped to consider that a non-hyperspace means of propulsion was necessitated by the overall mission itself? As Destiny travels though the universe, sensors detect and record the cosmic microwave background radiation. Were Destiny to utilize hyperspace propulsion, constant monitoring of that background radiation might not have been possible. Moving at faster than light speeds in normal space, vast distances could be covered while also maintaining the ability to capture and record the data needed. Just a thought.
    I never thought of it that way. That makes logical sense. Destiny's mission is to track and find the origin of that radiation. Very astute observation, Alexander.

  11. #31
    Pistachio
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    Thank you!

  12. #32
    Chief Master Sergeant satnamboll28's Avatar
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quadhelix View Post
    The problem wit this is that it raises the question of why there is the radiation build-up when the ship jumps into the "shallow" layer of subspace, but not the deeper layer used by hyperdrives - it seems like, if anything, the problem should come from jumping into the deeper layer only.


    The problem with this idea is that Destiny's FTL is actually faster than most hyperdrives, such as those used by the Goa'uld. If Destiny's FTL is more primitive than hyperdrives, then weren't the Goa'uld using that form of FTL when it is faster than their "more advanced" drives?
    hmmmm.....
    perhaps the transition into and out of this shallow layer, isn't without some kind of side effects...ftl engines can handle pretty much all of it, except for perhaps 1% of this particulate matter, which can be dealt with, but only after 4 hours? like some kind of dimensional barrier, that can only be traversed by some subtle manipulation of space time...
    within this shallow layer of sub space, it is so close to normal space, that the radiation and other em energy in the galaxies etc, are enough to leak through this layer, hence the engines needing to run for 4 hours to dissipate this radiation?

    With the seed ships having already traversed the space ahead of destiny, it's preprogrammed course will allow it to travel the fastest throughout the galaxy in question, thereby it's HD like speed. with the stars etc already plotted, it's much easier for destiny to go through with its jumps..

    the ftl is faster than the goauld hd, probably because they don't fully understand sub space? weak argument perhaps, but most likely true..

    FTL + HD- for a given amount of power, ftl is faster and more durable, especially between galaxies...with the close proximity of the sub space layer to normal space, perhaps its limited purely because of the make up of the universe?

    but with the hd engines, perhaps it allows for more power to be pushed through, allowing it's engines to manipulate space time faster thereby increasing it's overall speed? like the asgard hd on the daedalus- zpm available, hd can be pushed to max..so far we've only seen the ftl engines on destiny operate with limited power levels..what would happen if it had it's own power generation capabilities allowing near seed ship levels of power to be applied? would we see a far faster vessel? too bad they didn't show it on the show..might have been interesting....

    @alexanderD- nice obs...
    @crias- i was thinking the same, just not stellar winds...but that does make sense...

  13. #33
    Pistachio
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    Inefficient power generation is a theme that has played out again and again. It could be that the Goa'uld system for power generation simply lacks the massive outputs required for hyperspace speeds similar to other advanced races.

  14. #34
    Chief Master Sergeant satnamboll28's Avatar
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexanderD View Post
    Inefficient power generation is a theme that has played out again and again. It could be that the Goa'uld system for power generation simply lacks the massive outputs required for hyperspace speeds similar to other advanced races.
    That and the fact that the goauld basically suck. perhaps there engines, power generation etc, whilst superior to anything that earth has (pre asgard gifts of course) are basically knock offs of the original tech that they discovered millennia ago?
    with regards to power generation- perhaps the ancients long ago discovered that power was basically the single most important factor in tech? with so much more available, they could push their own tech to the max- zpm applied hyperdrive is so much faster than normal HD.
    I did have a theory however, re the ftl/ hd drive engines. ftl works in a shallow layer, super fast between the void, kinda slow in the galaxy due to the EM energies leaking through etc. long lasting, long running, but has to be run for 4 hours due to transitions between normal space and shallow space?
    hd- can manipulate space/time on a deeper level than ftl, faster (with more power), not affected by steller gravity etc, but it is affected by black holes, quasars (pulsars?).
    my theory is this- as gravity is prevalent throughout the universe, perhaps only gravity of a type from black holes and other dense matter, can actually affect the hd engines when jumping into or in such a deep layer of subspace?

  15. #35
    Pistachio
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    If you look at the copying of any technology you'll see a continuing trend. What might that trend be? A copy is a recreation of a device without the understanding of science behind it. Lacking this understanding, and the surrounding technological breakthroughs that led up to the device being created lends itself to an inferior recreation. It's a bit like buying a knock off Ipad. Sure, it looks the same. It just doesn't quite perform up to the standard of the original.

  16. #36
    Captain Quadhelix's Avatar
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexanderD View Post
    Has anyone stopped to consider that a non-hyperspace means of propulsion was necessitated by the overall mission itself? As Destiny travels though the universe, sensors detect and record the cosmic microwave background radiation. Were Destiny to utilize hyperspace propulsion, constant monitoring of that background radiation might not have been possible. Moving at faster than light speeds in normal space, vast distances could be covered while also maintaining the ability to capture and record the data needed. Just a thought.
    The problem with that idea is that Rush makes it fairly clear in "Gauntlet" that, if they just skip past the galaxy, they might miss part of the "message." If Destiny were capable of making its observations while in FTL, that would not be an issue.


    Quote Originally Posted by AlexanderD View Post
    Inefficient power generation is a theme that has played out again and again. It could be that the Goa'uld system for power generation simply lacks the massive outputs required for hyperspace speeds similar to other advanced races.
    This is only part of the picture; remember "Aurora"? In that episode, we learned that, "there are two different types of Ancient hyperdrive: there's the more basic interstellar kind, like the one the Aurora has; and then there's the more powerful intergalactic kind, similar to the one the Asgard provided us for the Daedalus."

    We also learn that, using the Aurora's standard interstellar hyperdrive, "it'll take months to return to Atlantis." Since the Pegasus galaxy is only about 4,000 light-years across, a travel time of "months" to get from one part to another translates to an upper limit on the Aurora's speed of about 2,000 light-years per month, or about 24,000 light-years per year. At that speed, it would take an Aurora-type ship about 170 years to travel 4 million light-years, making the Aurora at least a third slower than Chronos's Mothership in "Exodus."

    In other words, even with the Ancient's advanced power generation, their run of the mill hyperdrives are still agonizingly slow compared to Destiny's FTL.
    "From East Middle School. Suzumiya Haruhi. I have no interest in ordinary humans. If there are any aliens, time travelers, sliders, or espers here, come join me."
    - The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya; Best Character Introduction Ever.

    "And can we lose the ten thousand year old dead plants?!"
    - Stargate: Atlantis (1x03) "Hide and Seek"

    "Hammerheads do not load/unload units immediately – they must descend to ground level first. Initial experiments involving jump-jetting infantry into the Hammerhead’s cargo compartment met with unfortunate results."
    - Command&Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath Hammerhead Unit Spotlight

  17. #37
    Airman Amelius's Avatar
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    Arrow2 Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexanderD View Post
    Has anyone stopped to consider that a non-hyperspace means of propulsion was necessitated by the overall mission itself? As Destiny travels though the universe, sensors detect and record the cosmic microwave background radiation. Were Destiny to utilize hyperspace propulsion, constant monitoring of that background radiation might not have been possible. Moving at faster than light speeds in normal space, vast distances could be covered while also maintaining the ability to capture and record the data needed. Just a thought.
    Aww, you stole my answer lol That was my impression as well. In "Fail Safe" (SG-1) "We take it out of normal space long enough to avoid the collision with Earth." Taking the ship out of normal space (essentially making it pass through normal matter and energy) would probably stop them from detecting the Background Radiation as it may just pass through them (and more importantly the sensors) as well.

    The problem with that idea is that Rush makes it fairly clear in "Gauntlet" that, if they just skip past the galaxy, they might miss part of the "message." If Destiny were capable of making its observations while in FTL, that would not be an issue.
    WALLACE: So, we skip it. One continuous F.T.L. jump out and around the length of this galaxy, across the gap to the next one until we reach the first Gate on the other side.

    RUSH: Destiny is on this path for a reason.
    ARMSTRONG: But we're not going off the path - at least, not for good. We're just skipping part of it.
    RUSH: Yeah, well that's what bothers me. This ship was launched to solve a mystery, not by arriving at some ultimate destination where all the questions are answered at one time, but by accumulating knowledge bit by bit. If we skip over this galaxy, then who's to say we won't skip over some vital piece of the puzzle - and then all of this, everything we've been through, could be for nothing.

    He's not worried about missing anything because they're not leaving FTL, he's worried because they're changing course. They aren't going where Destiny wants to go which means they miss that part of the puzzle completely.


  18. #38
    Pistachio
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amelius View Post
    Aww, you stole my answer lol That was my impression as well. In "Fail Safe" (SG-1) "We take it out of normal space long enough to avoid the collision with Earth." Taking the ship out of normal space (essentially making it pass through normal matter and energy) would probably stop them from detecting the Background Radiation as it may just pass through them (and more importantly the sensors) as well.


    WALLACE: So, we skip it. One continuous F.T.L. jump out and around the length of this galaxy, across the gap to the next one until we reach the first Gate on the other side.

    RUSH: Destiny is on this path for a reason.
    ARMSTRONG: But we're not going off the path - at least, not for good. We're just skipping part of it.
    RUSH: Yeah, well that's what bothers me. This ship was launched to solve a mystery, not by arriving at some ultimate destination where all the questions are answered at one time, but by accumulating knowledge bit by bit. If we skip over this galaxy, then who's to say we won't skip over some vital piece of the puzzle - and then all of this, everything we've been through, could be for nothing.

    He's not worried about missing anything because they're not leaving FTL, he's worried because they're changing course. They aren't going where Destiny wants to go which means they miss that part of the puzzle completely.

    Great minds think alike lol.

  19. #39
    Lieutenant Colonel jeri's Avatar
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amelius View Post
    Aww, you stole my answer lol That was my impression as well. In "Fail Safe" (SG-1) "We take it out of normal space long enough to avoid the collision with Earth." Taking the ship out of normal space (essentially making it pass through normal matter and energy) would probably stop them from detecting the Background Radiation as it may just pass through them (and more importantly the sensors) as well.


    WALLACE: So, we skip it. One continuous F.T.L. jump out and around the length of this galaxy, across the gap to the next one until we reach the first Gate on the other side.

    RUSH: Destiny is on this path for a reason.
    ARMSTRONG: But we're not going off the path - at least, not for good. We're just skipping part of it.
    RUSH: Yeah, well that's what bothers me. This ship was launched to solve a mystery, not by arriving at some ultimate destination where all the questions are answered at one time, but by accumulating knowledge bit by bit. If we skip over this galaxy, then who's to say we won't skip over some vital piece of the puzzle - and then all of this, everything we've been through, could be for nothing.

    He's not worried about missing anything because they're not leaving FTL, he's worried because they're changing course. They aren't going where Destiny wants to go which means they miss that part of the puzzle completely.
    I nice to read that someone was actually paying attention to the show. I thought it was explained well enough right there, thanks, Amelius.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: FTL not brokendown Hyper Drives?

    let me see if i can explain this how im thinking it,hyper space is a tear in space by which you do not move and space moves around you,thats why they call it a hyper space window,you fly into it and it pulls you though,its a regon of space that takes Quantum Mechanics and throws it out the window because your no longer moveing in real space,FTL means faster then light travel meaning the ship itself is moves though reguler space faster then the speed of light,which is faster well now faster then light is pretty fast i would think that moveing though hyperspace would be faster because you dont have to worry about all those planets and stars getting in the way,but in a strait line [from galaxy to galaxy there is no stars to contend with]pretty much go till you get there,FTL could be just as fast if you didnt have to go around so many stars and things,mayby thats was the way they traveled to other galaxys this way,but moving within a galaxy its to much to go around every star,so the very first hyper drives where only desgned to travel within a galaxy,it wouldnt have to go faster then light just a strait line,so to go faster in hyper space it would be like driveing at 60 mph on the deck of an aircraft carrier and it going 60 you would be going 120,the first hyper drives took alot of power,and it was like the aircraft carrier moving same speed but you are going 10 mph,then the zpm came along allowing them to use power form subspace meaning not more power but the same amount for a longer poied of time,better aaa batterie same volt just last longer,i have come up with these ideas though studies i have done on basic Quantum Mechanics and of corse watching sg1,sga,sgu,that and the fact that there writers have been know to resarch some things before hand,its cool they use Stephen William Hawkings work all the time,that is why stargate could be real and star trek is a dream,besides it take the apllo kie 3 weeks to move beteewn galaxys,and it takes destiny what like 2 mounths from what another post i read said,not shure but closes thing i could com up with

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