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  1. #1401

    Default Re: Tracking Earth's Future via Current Events, etc.

    You're changing the subject again
    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    Jelgate is right

  2. #1402
    Second Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tracking Earth's Future via Current Events, etc.

    Of course Annoyed, just like Apple's products. New models have incredible features such as no earplug jack, bigger screens or perhaps a slight change in color, among many other insanely high-tech stuff. Every time a new product comes out, the customers (sheeps) are waiting in hoards ready to partake of the new iPhone, for a mere fee of a thousand bucks. And of course, what draws them there, is the emerging technologies.

  3. #1403
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tracking Earth's Future via Current Events, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    Of course Annoyed, just like Apple's products. New models have incredible features such as no earplug jack, bigger screens or perhaps a slight change in color, among many other insanely high-tech stuff. Every time a new product comes out, the customers (sheeps) are waiting in hoards ready to partake of the new iPhone, for a mere fee of a thousand bucks. And of course, what draws them there, is the emerging technologies.
    I'm still using an i-phone 6+ precisely because of that no headphone jack thing. I use it as a music player, and I'll be damned if I'll buy some additional gadget 'cause apple wants me to.

    But you go invent an engine for my boat that I don't have to dump $100 bucks of gas into for a weekend, and I'll line up to buy it.

    The new technology has to be wanted.
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
    - Starship Voyager's Holographic Doctor
    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
    - Former Borg Seven of Nine

  4. #1404
    Second Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tracking Earth's Future via Current Events, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
    I'm still using an i-phone 6+ precisely because of that no headphone jack thing. I use it as a music player, and I'll be damned if I'll buy some additional gadget 'cause apple wants me to.

    But you go invent an engine for my boat that I don't have to dump $100 bucks of gas into for a weekend, and I'll line up to buy it.

    The new technology has to be wanted.
    Okay good for you, you're not like the other sheeps that buy every new products. But fact remains, that a LOT of people do it, the majority of Apple users, that is not something to be denied Annoyed. It's close to an addiction, for some it is one.

    Of course new technology, if wanted and useful, will interest customers. But one thing I've learned in the business world is that its not about what the product is, its about what the product means. That includes branding, which is one of the most powerful weapon in the arsenal of a company.

  5. #1405
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tracking Earth's Future via Current Events, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    Okay good for you, you're not like the other sheeps that buy every new products. But fact remains, that a LOT of people do it, the majority of Apple users, that is not something to be denied Annoyed. It's close to an addiction, for some it is one.

    Of course new technology, if wanted and useful, will interest customers. But one thing I've learned in the business world is that its not about what the product is, its about what the product means. That includes branding, which is one of the most powerful weapon in the arsenal of a company.
    But that weapon is completely ineffective on someone who has no inclination to follow the herd and doesn't give a hoot about what the rest of the world thinks and has confidence in their own ability to evaluate information and reach a conclusion.

    The absolute best a marketer or advertiser can hope to do with me is to let me know they make something I might be interested in.

    We've argued with each other enough; do you really think I'm the docile, follow the herd type?
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
    - Starship Voyager's Holographic Doctor
    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
    - Former Borg Seven of Nine

  6. #1406
    Second Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tracking Earth's Future via Current Events, etc.

    To quote GF, cannot read I see.

    I literally said that you weren't like them. Here's some more info for you, corps don't care about lone wolves because the money is in the sheep.

  7. #1407
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tracking Earth's Future via Current Events, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    To quote GF, cannot read I see.

    I literally said that you weren't like them. Here's some more info for you, corps don't care about lone wolves because the money is in the sheep.
    No, I saw that and read it right But we've argued so much that I was surprised that it would even enter your mind that I might be a sheep.
    I'm more along the lines of this..


    *PS: If you don't recognize this hand in your sci-fi fan card.
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
    - Starship Voyager's Holographic Doctor
    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
    - Former Borg Seven of Nine

  8. #1408
    Brigadier General aretood2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tracking Earth's Future via Current Events, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
    Don't you think a company that invents such an energy technology would become successful in the marketplace?
    Heck, they would have people beating their doors down to buy it.
    Businesses are averse to risks. They only take risks if it is a sure thing or if they have no other choice. Making a current product hard to sell forces them to take risks to develop alternatives they otherwise wouldn't do. That's how it works. A lot of innovation came from government projects like DARPA. Nuclear tech was developed because of the need for it due to WWII. The Space Race was there because of its need due to the cold war. If incandescent light bulbs aren't blocked, then there's absolutely no need to take a risk with LED.

    The inventors of the 19th century and early 20th century lived in an entirely different landscape where the barriers to the markets were almost non existent. These days you have a plethora of large corporations who spend a good chunk of change eating up patents of anything that can threaten their products. These corporations are slow at innovation and the only ones innovating are the ones where their is significant competition. This is also why the US has horrible internet and telecom services, because it is mostly in the hands of monopolies and oligopolies.

    There's more reasons as to why inventors today can't be the same as those a hundred years ago. For example, it is easy to invent the wheel, but very very very hard to invent cold fusion power generation.

  9. #1409
    Second Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tracking Earth's Future via Current Events, etc.

    I don't think anybody could've given a better explanation than Tood

    If I may add, even as late as WW2, many wealthy businessmen were doing business directly with the different regimes/countries behind their own country's back.

    Thankfully nowadays there's a couple philanthropists such as Musk that actually focus on development of new tech. Reusable rockets is one of those, but again, it's more of an amalgam of technology than a specific big breakthrough.

    That being said, I think people don't realize how fast our society is changing and will change.

    The Quantum Computer could become a reality in a couple decades, granted it is not kept behind closed doors.

    I've read an article today about a Dr. from Montreal that found the gene that could result in a vaccine for cancer. Supposedly he looked into the 98% of the "junk adn" where most scientists had disregarded by logical thinking. This gene is the trigger to enable the immune system to identify the cancer cells.

    Tech evolves so quickly it becomes almost banal.

  10. #1410
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    Default Re: Tracking Earth's Future via Current Events, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    Businesses are averse to risks. They only take risks if it is a sure thing or if they have no other choice. Making a current product hard to sell forces them to take risks to develop alternatives they otherwise wouldn't do. That's how it works. A lot of innovation came from government projects like DARPA. Nuclear tech was developed because of the need for it due to WWII. The Space Race was there because of its need due to the cold war. If incandescent light bulbs aren't blocked, then there's absolutely no need to take a risk with LED.
    Not true. If they perceive there may be a market for a new item, they will do the research. Pharmaceutical companies do it all the time to develop new drugs.
    Take LED's for example. Electricity costs money. If I can invent a light bulb which uses 1/10th or less of the electricity that incandescent do, and works as well as incandescents do, I'm pretty sure I can sell them.

    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    The inventors of the 19th century and early 20th century lived in an entirely different landscape where the barriers to the markets were almost non existent. These days you have a plethora of large corporations who spend a good chunk of change eating up patents of anything that can threaten their products. These corporations are slow at innovation and the only ones innovating are the ones where their is significant competition. This is also why the US has horrible internet and telecom services, because it is mostly in the hands of monopolies and oligopolies.
    On big reason our inet/telcom is poor is the age of the infrastructure; this place has been wired a lot longer than other parts of the world, where the infrastructure has just been installed.
    But on this one topic, I don't think it should be in the private sector. Inet/telcom ought to be a very heavily regulated utility, like electric was before the era of mass deregulation.

    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    There's more reasons as to why inventors today can't be the same as those a hundred years ago. For example, it is easy to invent the wheel, but very very very hard to invent cold fusion power generation.
    Everything has already been invented? That's a weak argument.
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
    - Starship Voyager's Holographic Doctor
    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
    - Former Borg Seven of Nine

  11. #1411
    Brigadier General aretood2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tracking Earth's Future via Current Events, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
    Not true. If they perceive there may be a market for a new item, they will do the research. Pharmaceutical companies do it all the time to develop new drugs.
    Take LED's for example. Electricity costs money. If I can invent a light bulb which uses 1/10th or less of the electricity that incandescent do, and works as well as incandescents do, I'm pretty sure I can sell them.
    But that's not what happened. That's the exact opposite of what happened. It was government action that forced companies to invest in LED. That kinda defeats your point, doesn't it?


    On big reason our inet/telcom is poor is the age of the infrastructure; this place has been wired a lot longer than other parts of the world, where the infrastructure has just been installed.
    But on this one topic, I don't think it should be in the private sector. Inet/telcom ought to be a very heavily regulated utility, like electric was before the era of mass deregulation.
    In some parts of the US? Sure. But if you really read into it, it has more to do with telecoms hiking prices and not bothering to offer acceptable speeds because there's little need for it (no competition). Part of my statement was also related to customer service. Internet will get slower than the rest of the world

    Everything has already been invented? That's a weak argument.
    It would be a weak argument, if anyone actually made it. Is this what you are devolving to? Strawman arguments and ignoring the points you quote?

  12. #1412
    Second Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tracking Earth's Future via Current Events, etc.



    Not only the US gets ripped off, America as a whole does. We sure as hell do here in Canada too, for stuff such as beer or TV or Cellphones. 1$ for a glass of beer in Italy, here it's 7-10$ in a bar. Hell we still pay about 60$ monthly for a basic cell plan with 1-3 GO of data. Europeans have like 5 times this for half the price. Our beer is overpriced, our cars are overpriced, it is simply the way it is and always been. Acura was created for NA market only, so was Lexus or many others. I saved so much money buying Honda Accords parts for my old 97 Acura TL. It's literally the same car, with a couple minor changes, and slapped a price tag that is 1.5 times the car's worth.

  13. #1413
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tracking Earth's Future via Current Events, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    But that's not what happened. That's the exact opposite of what happened. It was government action that forced companies to invest in LED. That kinda defeats your point, doesn't it?
    The govt. mandated that incandescents were no longer legally sold here, but they did it about 20 years too early. At the time, LED's were in the pipe, but not yet ready for prime time. The only thing available at the time was the horrid & environmentally hazardous CFL lighting.

    The market would have naturally gone from the high energy use/cost incandescent bulbs to the energy efficient and equally importantly, acceptable quality LED bulbs within 20 or so years on its own.
    How much Mercury is gonna end up in landfills because the powers that be were too stupid to be patient?


    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    In some parts of the US? Sure. But if you really read into it, it has more to do with telecoms hiking prices and not bothering to offer acceptable speeds because there's little need for it (no competition). Part of my statement was also related to customer service. Internet will get slower than the rest of the world
    That's why I said that telco should be provided by a heavily regulated private company who holds a legal monopoly in that market. This was how telco & power were handled before the era of mass deregulation. It wasn't as cheap. but it was mostly reliable with few headaches outside of service outages due to weather.

    In general, business competition is best, but one of the competing points is price. Cost. should not play a great consideration is some things such as power, water, communications or airline travel.



    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    It would be a weak argument, if anyone actually made it. Is this what you are devolving to? Strawman arguments and ignoring the points you quote?
    Eh? You were the one who said something about wheels being easier to invent than Fusion.
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
    - Starship Voyager's Holographic Doctor
    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
    - Former Borg Seven of Nine

  14. #1414
    Brigadier General aretood2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tracking Earth's Future via Current Events, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
    The govt. mandated that incandescents were no longer legally sold here, but they did it about 20 years too early. At the time, LED's were in the pipe, but not yet ready for prime time. The only thing available at the time was the horrid & environmentally hazardous CFL lighting.

    The market would have naturally gone from the high energy use/cost incandescent bulbs to the energy efficient and equally importantly, acceptable quality LED bulbs within 20 or so years on its own.
    How much Mercury is gonna end up in landfills because the powers that be were too stupid to be patient?
    So your major hang up is the Mercury? Innovation is not a linear process that just happens. Something causes it to happen. Not everything devolves to a group of greedy board members deciding how to make a bigger buck.


    That's why I said that telco should be provided by a heavily regulated private company who holds a legal monopoly in that market. This was how telco & power were handled before the era of mass deregulation. It wasn't as cheap. but it was mostly reliable with few headaches outside of service outages due to weather.

    In general, business competition is best, but one of the competing points is price. Cost. should not play a great consideration is some things such as power, water, communications or airline travel.


    Eh? You were the one who said something about wheels being easier to invent than Fusion.
    Are you seriously arguing that eventing the wheel is the same level of difficulty as reliable cold fusion? Wow...just...wow...

  15. #1415
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    Default Re: Tracking Earth's Future via Current Events, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    So your major hang up is the Mercury? Innovation is not a linear process that just happens. Something causes it to happen. Not everything devolves to a group of greedy board members deciding how to make a bigger buck.
    No, my major hangup is that by being impatient, they screwed up

    Just as they did 30 years ago when they pushed us all into plastic grocery bags, rather than paper bags. They didn't bother to think that paper bags rot in 6 months, while plastic bags last for many years and can easily kill critters that come in contact with them.

    They just don't freakin' think. The enviro crowd tries to legislate (or more often as of late use the courts) their pipe dreams into reality without thinking things through as to the practical matters.


    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    Are you seriously arguing that eventing the wheel is the same level of difficulty as reliable cold fusion? Wow...just...wow...
    Not in the least. But we are starting from somewhat higher on the ladder than the guy who invented the wheel did. Invention is still possible.
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
    - Starship Voyager's Holographic Doctor
    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
    - Former Borg Seven of Nine

  16. #1416
    Brigadier General aretood2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tracking Earth's Future via Current Events, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
    No, my major hangup is that by being impatient, they screwed up

    Just as they did 30 years ago when they pushed us all into plastic grocery bags, rather than paper bags. They didn't bother to think that paper bags rot in 6 months, while plastic bags last for many years and can easily kill critters that come in contact with them.

    They just don't freakin' think. The enviro crowd tries to legislate (or more often as of late use the courts) their pipe dreams into reality without thinking things through as to the practical matters.
    You don't understand. I meant that if that's your hang up your issue isn't really government regulation, it's just the alleged stupidity of those involved...or the lack of hindsight...


    Not in the least. But we are starting from somewhat higher on the ladder than the guy who invented the wheel did. Invention is still possible.
    When did I say it wasn't? All I said is that our inventions are more complex and require more than some lightbulb going off in someone's head. To invent today, you need large amounts of resources and personnel. It only took one guy to figure out that pottery wheels could be used for transportation. It's been taking dozens of scientists working on the backs of geniuses since Einstein's time, millions and millions of dollars and we still don't have cold fusion. It took a national effort to develop the technology to send men into space and to the moon. No one person or small organization, not even a company, could have done that. The billion dollar budgets could only be approved in the aurora of the Cold War, that "necessity" beyond simple financial foresight. Sure, in hindsight LED is a great idea...but hindsight is 20/20 vision.

  17. #1417
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tracking Earth's Future via Current Events, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    You don't understand. I meant that if that's your hang up your issue isn't really government regulation, it's just the alleged stupidity of those involved...or the lack of hindsight...




    When did I say it wasn't? All I said is that our inventions are more complex and require more than some lightbulb going off in someone's head. To invent today, you need large amounts of resources and personnel. It only took one guy to figure out that pottery wheels could be used for transportation. It's been taking dozens of scientists working on the backs of geniuses since Einstein's time, millions and millions of dollars and we still don't have cold fusion. It took a national effort to develop the technology to send men into space and to the moon. No one person or small organization, not even a company, could have done that. The billion dollar budgets could only be approved in the aurora of the Cold War, that "necessity" beyond simple financial foresight. Sure, in hindsight LED is a great idea...but hindsight is 20/20 vision.
    You neglect the "holy shiznit" factor. Many inventions have been made by random thoughts in people's minds. Or as you put it, "the light bulb going on". There is nothing preventing that from happening today, in any field.

    No one is likely to have an earth shaking revolution about the wheel, but who knows what might pass across someone's mind regarding more complex problems?
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
    - Starship Voyager's Holographic Doctor
    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
    - Former Borg Seven of Nine

  18. #1418

    Default Re: Tracking Earth's Future via Current Events, etc.

    You missed aretood's point to make a random generalization
    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    Jelgate is right

  19. #1419
    Second Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tracking Earth's Future via Current Events, etc.

    I don't agree that you necessarily need large amount of personnel/resources to invent life-changing products. Most high-budget science ventures are privately funded, for the benefit of businesses. Product improvement, new avenues, etc.

    It takes only one guy in his basement, or one scientist, physicist, freethinker with decent funding to have an Eureka. You don't need to work for Umbrella Corp, you can have access to a decent budget working as a professor in an University.

    Most of them let their assistant/attaché teach, while they study and research.

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