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    #16
    Originally posted by Sealurk View Post
    Okay, watched it again and got some of my thoughts in order now.
    • The origin of River's diary is really quite nice.
    • Rory just gets better and better, seriously racking up the badass credentials while remaining definitively Rory-esque. He's turning into the breakout character of the show. I love how the Doctor still has to ask permission from him to hug Amy!
    • Finally finding out that the person who taught River to fly the TARDIS while the Doctor was 'busy that day' was the TARDIS...brilliant and wonderful.
    • The holograms of Rose, Martha and Donna were a nice nod to the previous Doctor, helping to sew the 'new' new series to the 'old' new series.
    • River's "Well, I was on my way to a gay gypsy bar mitzvah for the disabled when I suddenly thought 'Gosh, the Third Reich's a bit rubbish, I think I'll kill the Fuhrer'" made me laugh.
    • TeenAmy and TeenRory and the former's realisation about the latter was quite well done.
    • The Tesselacta shape-shift effect was pretty nifty, and the concept was...well, it was a bit too "Meet Dave" for my tastes, but still quite well done.
    • Anybody else think Matt Smith sounded a lot like Peter Davison when he's on the floor of the TARDIS arguing with the hologram?
    • Confirmation that regeneration energy is dangerous.
    • Matt Smith's acting is pretty damn good most of the time, and this episode is no exception.
    • Alex Kingston's post-regeneration sequence is priceless.
    • Has River using all her future regenerations to resurrect the Doctor done more than just saved him from the poison?
    Those are all good points, and I agree with most of those, it was nice to see the old companions again, and that he was still abit guilty for screwing their lives up.
    River Song using the regeneration energy as a weapon was a nice touch, thought she was going to do something like that when she was shot.
    I definately agree about Rory, he is such a great character, hes one of my favourite characters right now.
    How come the tesselacta associated River Song with the Tardis?
    Definately need to rewatch this.

    Comment


      #17
      I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. So if Melody/Mels/River killed the Doctor when she was a little girl before her first regeneration into Mels (Day Of The Moon), then why would she travel forward in time to Leadworth as a kid, base herself there as Mels, and wait for the Doctor to show up again? To her, she had already accomplished her mission from Kovarian. So why try to accomplish it again, for a second time? I don't deny it was a cracking episode, but it seemed to get very "wash, rinse, and repeat" in this one. Hitler got left in the cuboard, lol!

      Also, I've just realised that Melody/Mels/River giving the Doctor her remaining regenerations just solved the issue of "13 lives for a Time Lord". When that happened, the Doctor recieved 11 more lives, assuming that Melody/Mels/River got the full compliment of 13 lives when she was conceived within the TARDIS.

      In either case, the Doctor is going to live for another 11 life cycles. Can't wait to see what the 24th Doctor (the Doctor's first set of 13 lives, + the 11 new lives that he recevied from Melody/Mels/River) will look like by the time that 2060 comes around, LMFAO!
      Last edited by Billz; 27 August 2011, 01:39 PM.
      Teselecta: "Silence will fall when the question is asked."

      Doctor: "And what is the question?"

      Teselecta: "How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?"

      Doctor: " *Brainfart* ".

      Comment


        #18
        We need more of The Adventues of Amelia and Rory When They Were Kids. Now. Before Caitlin Blackwood grows up too much.

        As for the Tesselecta (or however you spell it), given Mr. Muff's age and Scottish roots, it's probably more of a nod to "The Numbskulls" in The Beezer comic rather than Eddie Murphy's "Meet Dave".
        sigpic
        Long before you and I were born, others beat these benches with their empty cups,
        To the night and its stars, to the here and now with who we are.

        Another sunrise with my sad captains, with who I choose to lose my mind,
        And if it's all we only pass this way but once, what a perfect waste of time.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by Billz View Post
          I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. So if Melody/Mels/River killed the Doctor when she was a little girl before her first regeneration into Mels (Day Of The Moon), then why would she travel forward in time to Leadworth as a kid, base herself there as Mels, and wait for the Doctor to show up again? To her, she had already accomplished her mission from Kovarian. So why try to accomplish it again, for a second time?
          Maybe its not River in the suit that kills the Doctor?

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by Teddybrown View Post
            Maybe its not River in the suit that kills the Doctor?
            Melody was in the suit. Melody is River. Melody in the suit killed the 1103 year old Doctor. After that at some point, Melody was taken to 1969 by possibly the Silence in their make shift TARDIS. Melody breaks out. Melody regenerates into Mels. Mels gets sent to Leadworth to grow up at the same rate as "Kid Amy" and "Kid Rory". Mels meets up with them and the Doctor. Mels regenerates into River Song. And you're still trying to deny it? :/
            Teselecta: "Silence will fall when the question is asked."

            Doctor: "And what is the question?"

            Teselecta: "How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?"

            Doctor: " *Brainfart* ".

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by Billz View Post
              I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. So if Melody/Mels/River killed the Doctor when she was a little girl before her first regeneration into Mels (Day Of The Moon), then why would she travel forward in time to Leadworth as a kid, base herself there as Mels, and wait for the Doctor to show up again? To her, she had already accomplished her mission from Kovarian. So why try to accomplish it again, for a second time?
              She hasn't accomplished her mission for a second time. The scene where Melody regenerated in the New York alleyway took place in 1969. She spent 30-years on Earth until she was able to meet and befriend her future parents Amy and Rory in the 1990's as "Mels" and she even engineers their relationship and therefore ensures her conception. Then she meets the Doctor in the cornfield in Leadworth. They go to 1930's Berlin and regenerates in to the face that we know as River Song and REALLY meets the Doctor for the first time. Her brainwashing is ended and she becomes an Archaeologist in the 52nd century. She meets the Doctor at various points in his time line until she is called to Utah in 2011 and witnesses the Doctor's death at the hands of SOMEONE.

              Also, I've just realised that Melody/Mels/River giving the Doctor her remaining regenerations just solved the issue of "13 lives for a Time Lord". When that happened, the Doctor recieved 11 more lives, assuming that Melody/Mels/River got the full compliment of 13 lives when she was conceived within the TARDIS.

              In either case, the Doctor is going to live for another 11 life cycles. Can't wait to see what the 24th Doctor (the Doctor's first set of 13 lives, + the 11 new lives that he recevied from Melody/Mels/River) will look like by the time that 2060 comes around, LMFAO!
              Well in The Sarah Jane Adventures the Doctor says he can regenerate 507 times. Whether he was being serious or not is another thing but if he was and River's given him her 11 remaining regenerations then the Doctor's got himself 519 lives to live now!

              THE TARDIS DATA CORE - Encyclopaedia and reference site covering DOCTOR WHO, K-9 AND COMPANY, TORCHWOOD,THE SARAH JANE ADVENTURES,
              K-9, CLASS and much more...

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Alan View Post
                She hasn't accomplished her mission for a second time.
                I said "So why try to accomplish it again, for a second time?". I never said that she did accomplish her mission for a second time. I merely said tried. There's a difference.

                Originally posted by Alan View Post
                ...she is called to Utah in 2011 and witnesses the Doctor's death at the hands of SOMEONE.
                That SOMEONE being Melody, who we know broke out of the spacesuit and regenerated in New York in the 60's. Haven't you been paying FULL attention?

                PS: It was nice seeing Martha and Donna again, even though they were only voice interface holograms. The Rose hologram I could have done without though.
                I wonder why Idris didn't appear as a possible voice interface hologram? Would've been great to see Idris/Sexy again!
                Last edited by Billz; 27 August 2011, 02:42 PM.
                Teselecta: "Silence will fall when the question is asked."

                Doctor: "And what is the question?"

                Teselecta: "How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?"

                Doctor: " *Brainfart* ".

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by Billz View Post
                  That SOMEONE being Melody, who we know broke out of the spacesuit and regenerated in New York in the 60's. Haven't you been paying FULL attention?
                  As i said in my pm to you, I really dont believe it is her...
                  But Ill happily put my hands up and accept it if it turns out to be her...

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Teddybrown View Post
                    As i said in my pm to you, I really dont believe it is her...
                    But Ill happily put my hands up and accept it if it turns out to be her...
                    I'm looking forward to seeing that.
                    Teselecta: "Silence will fall when the question is asked."

                    Doctor: "And what is the question?"

                    Teselecta: "How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?"

                    Doctor: " *Brainfart* ".

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Holy Cow.

                      That was... wow.

                      Figured out Mels was River as soon as she came out of the cell. Mels's swagger was EXACTLY like River's. River's regeneration scene was great as well (and the banana! ); evil!River was kinda intriguing.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Melody regenerates into Mels. Mels gets sent to Leadworth to grow up at the same rate as "Kid Amy" and "Kid Rory". Mels meets up with them and the Doctor.
                        I do not think she was sent to Leadworth, I think she made the decision to move there by herself. In fact I think every decision she has made since she escape that Space suit has been her own decision. I hope we do get some stories about Mel past, and what she, Rory, and Pond got up to in there youth together.

                        I think it all but confirm, River Song kills the doctor as a child. She hinted at it when she attempted to shoot the doctor attacker. An now those time agents pretty much confirm it. Also there solid links between the person escaping the spacesuit, the regeneration in New York, and Mel. Right now it would be illogical for the person to be anyone but Melody.

                        Now whether that the real doctor, Flesh doctor, whether he has a plan to revive himself master style is now the big question we need to answer.
                        So we know the silence have evolve into some type of religious cult who is seeking out answers to a question, they probably came up with the cult idea to protect themselves from the events that took place in 1969. Wonder what the question is. An why they tried to destroy the universe.

                        One question I got, was the Doctor the one that started the war, with those word the British are coming. Germany would never withstood a full scale assault from France an Great Britain combine. Could the doctor warning, him seeing what he thought was a British flying phone able to penetrate into the heart of Germany with out any opposition have made him launch his war in 1939.


                        Apart from the above the most interesting bit of the episode was the time agents, I hope we learn more about them in the future. I wonder if they were the ones holding Song prisoner or is it someone else.
                        I like there android. Through I wish we got to see the space ship they beam up to.
                        Last edited by knowles2; 27 August 2011, 03:47 PM.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by knowles2 View Post
                          I do not think she was sent to Leadworth, I think she made the decision to move there by herself. In fact I think every decision she has made since she escape that Space suit has been her own decision. I hope we do get some stories about Mel past, and what she, Rory, and Pond got up to in there youth together.

                          I think it all but confirm, River Song kills the doctor as a child. She hinted at it when she attempted to shoot the doctor attacker. An now those time agents pretty much confirm it. Also there solid links between the person escaping the spacesuit, the regeneration in New York, and Mel. Right now it would be illogical for the person to be anyone but Melody.

                          Now whether that the real doctor, Flesh doctor, whether he has a plan to revive himself master style is now the big question we need to answer.
                          So we know the silence have evolve into some type of religious cult who is seeking out answers to a question, they probably came up with the cult idea to protect themselves from the events that took place in 1969. Wonder what the question is. An why they tried to destroy the universe.

                          One question I got, was the Doctor the one that started the war, with those word the British are coming. Germany would never withstood a full scale assault from France an Great Britain combine. Could the doctor warning, him seeing what he thought was a British flying phone able to penetrate into the heart of Germany with out any opposition have made him launch his war in 1939.
                          Apart from the above the most interesting bit of the episode was the time agents, I hope we learn more about them in the future. I wonder if they were the ones holding Song prisoner or is it someone else.
                          I like there android. Through I wish we got to see the space ship they beam up to.
                          In real life, no, but in the Whoverse, anythings possible!

                          Looks like they are doing the secret messages in the Fourth Dimension again...
                          Heres what was found
                          “When Reason Slept

                          When Mothers Wept

                          When soldiers Crept

                          The Monsters came”

                          As for the Doctors death, I will stand my ground till proven wrong =P lol

                          Also might aswell post these here too
                          Trailer for episode 9 Night Terrors
                          BBC link
                          http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/videos/p00k2lp0
                          Youtube link
                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbhGsj9ftVM

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Did anyone else notice the music that played as Rory punched Hitler?

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Umm.... this is going to be a very long reply stuffed with quoting people!

                              [QUOTE=Draygon;12868644]Dunno, I had suspicions who Mels was as soon as she pulled out the gun. *shrugs* It was kinda familiar. I loved the back and forth between her and the Doctor where they were trying to get the upper hand over the other

                              Agreed; Mels sorta bantered with the Doctor like River does. And was the same kind of pushy.

                              Originally posted by Sealurk View Post
                              So we learned that temporal grace was always just rule one in effect, River has definitely inherited the badass gene from Rory, and it's fun to lock Hitler in a cupboard.
                              And leave him there! I can just imagine the mystified/horrified faces of the people that find him cowering in a cupboard...

                              Originally posted by Teddybrown View Post
                              Yeah, that was awesome! And locking Hitler in the closet...
                              River and the Doctors little furray for weapons was fun...
                              There were quite a few laughs in this episode
                              "Doctor not following, Doctor very lost"
                              Tons of laughs, yes! I loved them all, I laughed a ton in between all of my "WTF?!" moments. (Good thing the house was empty when I was yelling that at the screen, lol!


                              Originally posted by Flyboy View Post
                              ... can you think of a better way to track down a time traveler?

                              And I think the Doctor may have just told River his name...
                              Didn't the Doctor (or maybe it was river?) explain that they "keep score" by putting grafitti on historical objects? And what better way to discover historical objects than to become an archaeologist?

                              Also, it's clear that he told her his name. "There's only one way I could have told you that" -- from Silence in the Library or whatever episode where we met River. Speaking of which, there's that "Silence" again... Oh Mr Moffat, how long have you been planning this series plot??

                              Originally posted by Sealurk View Post
                              • Rory just gets better and better, seriously racking up the badass credentials while remaining definitively Rory-esque. He's turning into the breakout character of the show. I love how the Doctor still has to ask permission from him to hug Amy!
                              • Finally finding out that the person who taught River to fly the TARDIS while the Doctor was 'busy that day' was the TARDIS...brilliant and wonderful.
                              • The holograms of Rose, Martha and Donna were a nice nod to the previous Doctor, helping to sew the 'new' new series to the 'old' new series.
                              • River's "Well, I was on my way to a gay gypsy bar mitzvah for the disabled when I suddenly thought 'Gosh, the Third Reich's a bit rubbish, I think I'll kill the Fuhrer'" made me laugh.
                              • Alex Kingston's post-regeneration sequence is priceless.
                              • Has River using all her future regenerations to resurrect the Doctor done more than just saved him from the poison?
                              In order:
                              This episode made me actually like Rory for the first time in a while.
                              I did like finding out how River learned to fly the TARDIS, although her line about "I'm a child of the TARDIS" (or close) certainly opened up a whole host of new questions, although in a roundabout way answered some.
                              Holograms were indeed a nice touch, also his asking for someone who didn't make him feel guilty showed that he does remember those guys.
                              River/Alex Kingston was just absolutely brilliant in this episode, lines and acting and all
                              I think this gives TPTB an excuse to give the Doctor a few more regenerations, at the least.

                              Originally posted by Alan View Post
                              Well in The Sarah Jane Adventures the Doctor says he can regenerate 507 times. Whether he was being serious or not is another thing but if he was and River's given him her 11 remaining regenerations then the Doctor's got himself 519 lives to live now!
                              I would not be mad about that!

                              Originally posted by Carter1994 View Post
                              Figured out Mels was River as soon as she came out of the cell. Mels's swagger was EXACTLY like River's. River's regeneration scene was great as well (and the banana! ); evil!River was kinda intriguing.
                              The banana! The banana was brilliant! And a nod to my FAVOURITE story ark, also by our wonderful Mr Moffat, "The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances" ("There's really a banana grove at [name of weapons factory where Jack gets his gun] and you really just did that?")

                              Originally posted by Teddybrown View Post
                              Looks like they are doing the secret messages in the Fourth Dimension again...
                              Heres what was found
                              “When Reason Slept

                              When Mothers Wept

                              When soldiers Crept

                              The Monsters came”
                              Secret messages in the 4th Dimension? What's this about?
                              Call me Lucy!


                              Proud Teslen + River/Doctor + Janto + Peter/Olivia + Conby Shipper!

                              Sanctuary, Doctor Who, Torchwood, Fringe, Warehouse 13, and Primeval fangirl!


                              Please read my writing! Seeing what I had fun writing enjoyed by others is what makes my work worth it.
                              ff.net||blog||figment

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Billz View Post
                                I said "So why try to accomplish it again, for a second time?". I never said that she did accomplish her mission. I merely said tried. There's a difference.
                                I know you did. And I said she HASN'T accomplished her mission for a second time.

                                That SOMEONE being Melody, who we know broke out of the spacesuit and regenerated in New York in the 60's. Haven't you been paying FULL attention?
                                52nd Century: Melody Pond is born to Amy Pond and Rory Williams. She is captured, brainwashed in to killing the Doctor.

                                1960's: Melody is inserted in to a NASA spacesuit.

                                1968: Melody breaks out of the spacesuit and regenerates in New York alleyway becoming "Mels".

                                1990's: "Mels" meets and befriends Amy and Rory.

                                2000's: "Mels" engineers Amy and Rory's relationship ensuring her future conception.

                                2011: August: "Mels" meets the Doctor in a cornfield in Leadworth. They travel back in time to 1938 where she is injured and regenerates in to the body and face the Doctor associates with River Song. THE DOCTOR AND RIVER'S FIRST REAL MEETING. River kills the Doctor but then after being convinced of his goodness she fights her brainwashing and sacrifices her remaining regenerations to bring the Doctor back to life. River is left in the 52nd century to live her life.

                                52nd Century: River becomes an archaeologist.

                                TIME UNKNOWN: River kills someone and is imprisoned for it.

                                52nd Century: River breaks out of her Stormcage prison and goes to Utah in April 2011.

                                April 2011: River witnesses the Doctor's death at the hands of someone wearing a NASA space suit. Along with Amy and Rory they meet a younger Doctor and they travel back in time to 1968.

                                1968: River helps the Doctor and his friends defeat the Silence. The Doctor returns River to her cell in the 52nd century.

                                Followed by:

                                A GOOD MAN GOES TO WAR

                                THE PANDORICA OPENS

                                THE TIME OF ANGELS

                                SILENCE IN THE LIBRARY

                                So now let me ask you something...River was already locked up for the murder of someone when she was called to Utah 2011, right? If it was a younger version of herself in the spacesuit (aka Melody) that killed the Doctor as you suggest, wouldn't River on the beach have recognised the circumstances for which she was locked away for and also not bothered attempting to shoot at her past self as she retreated in to the lake knowing full well that she is destined to be arrested for the Doctor's murder in the future and locked up in a Stormcage?

                                BUT unless at some point after going to attend Luna University River loses her memories, reverts back to her brainwashing and kills the Doctor in Utah in 2011 and then goes back to being her normal self I don't see how it can be her.

                                And from my perspective: TOO obvious. The Doctor dies. River locked up for murder. It's too much A leads to B leads to C. If it were River in that spacesuit they wouldn't have gone to such trouble to hide her identity.

                                If, however, it does turn out to be River then I'll hold my hands up and accept it.

                                THE TARDIS DATA CORE - Encyclopaedia and reference site covering DOCTOR WHO, K-9 AND COMPANY, TORCHWOOD,THE SARAH JANE ADVENTURES,
                                K-9, CLASS and much more...

                                Comment

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