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2257-58, some thoughts

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    2257-58, some thoughts

    I'm re-watching yet again....into Season 2/2259 now, but I thought I'd throw out some things I found interesting this time around; things I may not have caught before or which puzzled me a little.

    Some thoughts for discussion, anyway. Liven this board up a bit!

    2257 // The Gathering
    • Why did that Minbari attempt to poison Kosh, anyway? I don't think we ever really got a good answer to that. Was he just some crazy guy, from a crazy sub-group, looking to start a war for no apparent reason?
    • Given that we know that the Vorlons are beings of energy, how could Kosh have been poisoned at all?


    2258 // Season 1
    • In the very first episode, Midnight On the Firing Line, they play a voiceover of Sinclair's last memory at the Battle of the Line. No visual accompanies this until it appears later in the season, several times, and then again eventually in In the Beginning. What a wonderful bit of pre-planned continuity!
    • In 1.04 Infection, Dr. Franklin tells his old prof that he couldn't find any information on Interplanetary Expeditions. Considering how well-planned out the B5-verse is, I find this to be a bit of a shocking oversight. IPX is a huge corporation, and pretty darn well-known. Considering this was an episode that was written by JMS himself....well, what's going on with that?
    • In the same episode, Infection, they say that the organic Ikarran technology comes from a world that went extinct "a thousand years ago." We know that a thousand years prior to the TV series is when the previous Shadow War ended, so were these Ikarrans involved in some way? (This is a speculation question with no canon answer)
    • In 1.06 Mind War, when Jason Ironheart 'evolved' into some kind of energy being, he told Sinclair that he'd see him in a million years. Now...is there more to Sinclair's fate than we know, or was Ironheart speaking figuratively about mankind in general?
    • 1.06 Mind War again: Since this was a teek evolving into energy, does this mean that telepaths really are the future of human evolution, as the Psi Corps always maintained? Were those series antagonists really right in their arrogant presumption all along? And consequently--can we thank the Vorlons for accelerating the natural evolution of humanity, rather than blaming them for making weapons to fight the Shadows?
    • When Sinclair starts to remember his Minbari interrogation in 1.08 And the Sky Full of Stars, he asks the Grey Council "what do you want?" and it echoes numerous times before the scene changes! Wow! BEAUTIFUL bit of foreshadowing there!
    • 1.09 Deathwalker: The end of the episode implies that the whole reason for Kosh's bizarre commissioning of Talia in this episode is because Vorlons are leery of telepaths. But, as we learn later in the series, the Vorlons are responsible for creating telepaths in the first place! So what was this episode's b-plot really all about?
    • In 1.20 Babylon Squared, Delenn takes the triluminary that she uses for the chrysalis in the season finale. We end up finding out later on that the triluminary(ies) was/were a gift from Valen/Sinclair, coming from Epsilon III in the first place. But the Minbari who gives it to her tells her there are two others. Why? What happened to them? Do they do something different than the one(s) that transform Delenn into partial human and Sinclair into partial Minbari?



    Food for thought and discussion, I don't know if I'll be able to do this again for Season 2//2259, but I'll try
    Last edited by DigiFluid; 31 May 2011, 12:58 AM.
    "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

    #2
    Originally posted by DigiFluid View Post
    I'm re-watching yet again....into Season 2/2259 now, but I thought I'd throw out some things I found interesting this time around; things I may not have caught before or which puzzled me a little.

    Some thoughts for discussion, anyway. Liven this board up a bit!

    2257 // The Gathering
    • Why did that Minbari attempt to poison Kosh, anyway? I don't think we ever really got a good answer to that. Was he just some crazy guy, from a crazy sub-group, looking to start a war for no apparent reason?
    • Given that we know that the Vorlons are beings of energy, how could Kosh have been poisoned at all?
    I'll discuss the 2258 points when I have more energy and time. However, I can address these two points pretty quickly. With the Wind Swords being the most radical clans of the Warrior Caste, I'd say they intended to make humans pay for Kosh's death. It's an interesting plot really. The Wind Swords know that the Vorlons are very powerful and would likely exact revenge for the death of Kosh. My making it seem like the humans were responsible, I think the Wind Swords were hoping the finish humanity off by having the Vorlons do it for them.

    As for how and why the Vorlons can be poisoned, this is a post I made about them a while ago.


    I used to post in the B5 forum very regularly, hoping to make sure this subforum stays active. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on one's point of view, a lot of real life issues (work mainly--in a good way too ) are taking up time and energy for me.
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      #3
      1. Just because IPX is a big company doesn't necessarily mean everyone will know about it. We all know Bill Gates and Microsoft, but do you know the richest man in the world and his company? I don't. I just know it's not Bill Gates or Microsoft. While they did become more well known and company image was important to them, what I find interesting is how their interest in weapons is constant so it keeps in line with them being connected to government interests and part of a companies biodivision.

      2. I think it's possible the Ikarran were given the technolgy by the Shadows. They couldn't defend themselves from alien invaders, yet possessed oraganic weaponry? Don't fit with me.

      3. I think there has to be more to Sinclair than we know. Even after what happened in season 3, I've always considered the comment directed at him rather than humanity.

      4. I'm not sure if telepathy is the future. Sticking to season 1 facts, nothing to really say that it's the future beyond the PSI-Corps sense of ego. Ivanova's mother was a telepath, we don't know if Invanoa's brother was (but he was in Earth Force so I'd say no), she was barely a telepath so the gene in her family could ultimately be gone with her children (if she had any). While PSI-Corp liked to increase the chances of telepath children, casual breeding may result in the gene being weakened within the general population.

      As for the Vorlons, we don't know if they really accelerated the evolution of humanity rather than just abducting an unknown amount of people and giving them the gene. We don't know for sure that telepathy is supposed to be part of the natural evolution process.

      5. The B-plot for Deathwalker was one of those cool ideas that JMS put into motion early on but never happened. Lyta would show up, do her thing and it would change Talia, and then what was recorded by Abbot would be used to restore her. I don't think it was really an issue of Kosh being wary of Talia but keeping someone around who could be trusted. Andrea left the show, so they brought back Patricia. It would have been an interesting story.

      Can't really comment on The Gathering. I don't own the movies (expensive here individually or in a box set).

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        #4
        Originally posted by SaberBlade View Post
        2. I think it's possible the Ikarran were given the technolgy by the Shadows. They couldn't defend themselves from alien invaders, yet possessed oraganic weaponry? Don't fit with me.
        Yep, this is exactly the case. The Technomage trilogy established that the Ikarrans, along with the Taratimude and several races from the Valen era, were given devastating technology by the Shadows to spread chaos and destruction. This was affirmed in the Legions of Fire trilogy as well, though only in brief references (at least from what I can remember).
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          #5
          Well now I've bumped that thread up

          I don't want this particular sub-forum to die either, it's just that I have a hard time summoning the will to post in it when I'm not actively engaged in its material. But since I am currently re-watching and tackling the books/comics at the same time.....
          "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

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            #6
            Originally posted by DigiFluid View Post
            Well now I've bumped that thread up

            I don't want this particular sub-forum to die either, it's just that I have a hard time summoning the will to post in it when I'm not actively engaged in its material. But since I am currently re-watching and tackling the books/comics at the same time.....
            I haven't been at GateWorld very much at all lately, with little opportunity or time to watch anything. However, I do want to keep the B5 subforum active as well. I owe that much to my favorite sci-fi series of all time.
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              #7
              Originally posted by Cold Fuzz View Post
              Yep, this is exactly the case. The Technomage trilogy established that the Ikarrans, along with the Taratimude and several races from the Valen era, were given devastating technology by the Shadows to spread chaos and destruction. This was affirmed in the Legions of Fire trilogy as well, though only in brief references (at least from what I can remember).
              Ahhh. That must be in the third Techno-Mage novel then. I just finished the second one (literally, like 15 minutes ago ); so I just learned about the Techno-Mage tech's origins. Haven't cracked the third one yet--I'm going through it all by chronology, so I won't get to it till late Season 3
              "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

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                #8
                Originally posted by DigiFluid View Post
                Ahhh. That must be in the third Techno-Mage novel then. I just finished the second one (literally, like 15 minutes ago ); so I just learned about the Techno-Mage tech's origins. Haven't cracked the third one yet--I'm going through it all by chronology, so I won't get to it till late Season 3
                Oops. I should've put that info in spoiler tags. Sorry. Late at night and rest-deprived.
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                  #9
                  I don't mind; it's not really a big spoiler after the TM tech revelation in book 2
                  "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

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                    #10
                    I know there's no real proof, but Ironheart's comment is certainly suggestive. It's entirely possible that Valen was taken into space by the Vorlons prior to death (I don't think his death has ever been recorded in canon) disappeared in a cloud of light just like Sheridan did a thousand years later...

                    Where is IPX headquarters? I have a feeling it isn't necessarily an Earth-based company, and they were rather secretive. No reason why a space medic would necessarily know about them...
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                      #11
                      I believe IPX was Earth-based, and they certainly weren't any secret. Besides interplanetary arcaeological expeditions, they were also tied up with Earthforce's new weapons division. I see them as kind of a loose analogue to Weyland-Yutani in the Alien universe.

                      Anyway I digress. My point is simply that they were a big public corporation, and that Franklin said he 'did a search that turned up nothing on them.' It was a little bit of a throwaway line so it's certainly forgivable. It's just odd, like if someone in a modern day show did a Google search for Microsoft or Lockheed and got no results. An oddity
                      "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

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                        #12
                        An oddity indeed, but no biggie when compared with the sort of inconsistencies other shows get away with...
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                          #13
                          Another fun fact I forgot to post in the first place... One of the Shadow ships that destroyed the Narn outpost at Quadrant 37 (in Chrysalis) was commanded by/inhabited by/merged with Anna Sheridan!
                          "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by DigiFluid View Post
                            Another fun fact I forgot to post in the first place... One of the Shadow ships that destroyed the Narn outpost at Quadrant 37 (in Chrysalis) was commanded by/inhabited by/merged with Anna Sheridan!
                            Was this revealed in the show, or a commentary?

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by SaberBlade View Post
                              Was this revealed in the show, or a commentary?
                              It was about a page in the first Passing of the Techno-Mages novel (one of the trilogies which is considered to be canon).
                              "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

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