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  1. #1
    Second Lieutenant
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    Default how is naquadria more powerful then zpm's?

    some one was discussing how many zpm's you would need to dial destiny or to build a bridge gateway or whatever and this make me thing how the hell is I think its naquadria on these planets that can dial destiny how the hell are these planets more powerful then a bunch of zpm's to dial destiny you would need heaps of zpm's and I doubt one planet of naquadria could even be as powerful as 2 zpm's max. whats up with this?

  2. #2
    Lieutenant General Pharaoh Atem's Avatar
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    Default Re: how is naquadria more powerful then zpm's?

    we can't build ZPM's so we need to rely on the power sources of planets to dial destiny.

  3. #3

    Default Re: how is naquadria more powerful then zpm's?

    Quanity. A lot more naquadria then ZPMs
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: how is naquadria more powerful then zpm's?

    Quote Originally Posted by tomaso88 View Post
    some one was discussing how many zpm's you would need to dial destiny or to build a bridge gateway or whatever and this make me thing how the hell is I think its naquadria on these planets that can dial destiny how the hell are these planets more powerful then a bunch of zpm's to dial destiny you would need heaps of zpm's and I doubt one planet of naquadria could even be as powerful as 2 zpm's max. whats up with this?
    What's that based on?

  5. #5
    Chief Master Sergeant ColdZero's Avatar
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    Default Re: how is naquadria more powerful then zpm's?

    Its probably an issue of size as stated before. You can't really drag a planet around with Atlantis. Per cubic meter ZPMs are probably far more powerful. Its also a matter of availability. There's been more than a handful of ZPMs in the Stargate world already, but only 3 planets meet the 9 chevron requirements.
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  6. #6
    Colonel s09119's Avatar
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    Default Re: how is naquadria more powerful then zpm's?

    You realize how much naquadria would be in a planet's core, right? Like, how much energy we're talking about here?
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: how is naquadria more powerful then zpm's?

    ZPM's are designed to supply large amounts of power over time, a Naquardiah core can supply a great deal more power in very little time.

  8. #8
    Second Lieutenant
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    Default Re: how is naquadria more powerful then zpm's?

    I assumed the naquadria is no where near as powerful as a zpm since Samantha said in the last episode jonas quin was in that if the naquadria exploded their contentent would be destroyed or whatever and their planet would be un habitable since all the ash and what not but if the naquadria is as powerful as they are saying in SGU then a lot more then the whole planet would have been destroyed hell prob 1/6 of the galaxy since some one did calculations saying it would take around 300-700 zpm's to dial destiny using atlantis's zpm as a basis


    so how powerful actually is naquadria at one point they are saying it would be enough to destroy a partial part of the planet yet we know for a fact a zpm its self could destroy 1 solar system when fully powered so wouldnt the naquadria be so much more powerfuller

  9. #9
    Brigadier General SaberBlade's Avatar
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    Default Re: how is naquadria more powerful then zpm's?

    The problem with ZPM's is they don't last long when you need more power from them. Unfortunately, dramatic effect causes the ZPM to lose large amounts of power.

    Do something that requires a constant amount of energy and they can last for thousands of years, as shown when the three used on Atlantis lasted about 3,333 years each protecting the city from the ocean. Not dramatic in any way. However when it comes to weapons fire, explosions and Rodney screaming they are all going to die, that increases the dramatic effect which causes a ZPM capable of lasting 3,333 years on basic power levels to run for about 24 hours.

    Naquadria is the opposite. Dramatic effect increases it's power because an exploding [planet] is awesome to watch so Naquadria will beat ZPM every time.
    Last edited by SaberBlade; April 24th, 2011 at 10:55 PM. Reason: typo



  10. #10
    Chief Master Sergeant actuallyliam's Avatar
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    Default Re: how is naquadria more powerful then zpm's?

    Quote Originally Posted by SaberBlade View Post
    The problem with ZPM's is they don't last long when you need more power from them. Unfortunately, dramatic effect causes the ZPM to lose large amounts of power.

    Do something that requires a constant amount of energy and they can last for thousands of years, as shown when the three used on Atlantis lasted about 3,333 years each protecting the city from the ocean. Not dramatic in any way. However when it comes to weapons fire, explosions and Rodney screaming they are all going to die, that increases the dramatic effect which causes a ZPM capable of lasting 3,333 years on basic power levels to run for about 24 hours.

    Naquadria is the opposite. Dramatic effect increases it's power because an exploding is awesome to watch so Naquadria will beat ZPM every time.
    This, although Rodney never had a full ZPM to work with. So it was dying like once a season. Under gun fire, activating star drives etc. He only had 1 or 2 partially full ones.

  11. #11
    Brigadier General SaberBlade's Avatar
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    Default Re: how is naquadria more powerful then zpm's?

    Quote Originally Posted by actuallyliam View Post
    This, although Rodney never had a full ZPM to work with. So it was dying like once a season. Under gun fire, activating star drives etc. He only had 1 or 2 partially full ones.
    Presumably he did have full ones after the Asurans attacked the city, as they planned to launch the city and take it back to Asuras. Would be hard to do that with one (assumed) that the Ancients had being used to power their engines to near speed of light.



  12. #12
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    Default Re: how is naquadria more powerful then zpm's?

    Quote Originally Posted by tomaso88 View Post
    some one was discussing how many zpm's you would need to dial destiny or to build a bridge gateway or whatever and this make me thing how the hell is I think its naquadria on these planets that can dial destiny how the hell are these planets more powerful then a bunch of zpm's to dial destiny you would need heaps of zpm's and I doubt one planet of naquadria could even be as powerful as 2 zpm's max. whats up with this?
    I agree with you. The only explanation seems to be bad writing.

    An O'neill Device can boost the power on a gate enough for galaxy-to-galaxy wormhole travel. Its powered by a single staff weapon. What would happen with 10 staff weapons? Then there is Naquida generators, how are they not more powerful than a staff weapon? Once SG1 had those, why would they need an O'Neill device anymore?

    At various times Atlantis had a ZPM, they were able to dial Earth at regular intervals to check in. Is it a simple multiplier? Does dialing the distance to earth twice mean you could have dialed a galaxy twice the distance from earth-pegasus once? If that is the case, if you count how many times they dialed Earth, just how far out there could they have dialed?

    Thor was able to open a wormhole back to his home planet (galaxy) with a tiny hand held (stone?) device.

    An Asgard ship was able to get from its home galaxy to earth in what? 2-10 minutes?

    Somehow, pre-supergate, the priors of the Ori were able to dial the gates from their home galaxy presumably ridiculously far away and end up in the Milky Way. Earth should ask them about that...

    We are meant to believe that the combined energy storing capacity of (a partially charged) Destiny and Seeder ship can generate as much power as needed, but that 1,2,3 ZPMs can't? A fully powered Destiny requires more power than Atlantis? Destiny that could probably dock on Atlantis? If that is the case then they are going about things all wrong on the show. There should be Earth based scientists constantly "stoned" into Destiny trying to reverse engineer its energy storing capabilities (capacitors?)...

    I'm sure that ZPM's could dial Destiny when they were first introduced, but like the Ancients, they had to dumb them down to fit the plot.

  13. #13
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: how is naquadria more powerful then zpm's?

    Thor was able to open a wormhole back to his home planet (galaxy) with a tiny hand held (stone?) device.
    a gate can let the other gate power the wormhole. let's just say the Asgard know the gates and thus can cheat any of it's programmed rules.

    I'm sure that ZPM's could dial Destiny when they were first introduced, but like the Ancients, they had to dumb them down to fit the plot.

    i think that the real reason is this :with Atlantis' 3 Zpms severely depleted, they need all their ZPM's and they simply don't WANT to sacrifice them for ca. 80 people.


    i think that at the very least, per dial you need to deplete 1 ZPM.



    oh and as to why naquahdriah is more powerful: it's not. it's just that a planet is ridiculously big and an icarus planet has a ridiculously large amount of naquahdriah on it.


    technically, naquahdah can do the trick, but it's not radioactive so you can't do anything fancy with it like steering planetary reactions.


    but yea, Icarus blew up with the force of a nova (10^40 joules) whereas a ZPM gets around 10^33, 10^35 joules.


    that means 5 orders of magnitude higher than a ZPM, give or take an order of magnitude.

    it should be an obvious conclusion that an Icarus base can only draw so much power.

    Somehow, pre-supergate, the priors of the Ori were able to dial the gates from their home galaxy presumably ridiculously far away and end up in the Milky Way. Earth should ask them about that...
    there's no reason for the Ori not to mass-produce ZPM's with their uber ascended powers. remember, they can cheat all they want in THEIR galaxy.


    An Asgard ship was able to get from its home galaxy to earth in what? 2-10 minutes?
    that probably got retconned but yea.


    An O'neill Device can boost the power on a gate enough for galaxy-to-galaxy wormhole travel. Its powered by a single staff weapon. What would happen with 10 staff weapons? Then there is Naquida generators, how are they not more powerful than a staff weapon? Once SG1 had those, why would they need an O'Neill device anymore?
    you seem to have little understanding of power versus energy.

    power is energy per unit of time. a Staffweapon's liquid core can not draw energy quickly (tornment of tantalus). however, the O'neill device seemed to draw far, far more energy from it in a far, far shorter time. it would burn out faster, but it gives you the power you need.


    on the other hand, a naquahdah generator works like a regular staffweapon, namely it has a good balance between output and lifetime.





    The problem with ZPM's is they don't last long when you need more power from them. Unfortunately, dramatic effect causes the ZPM to lose large amounts of power.

    Do something that requires a constant amount of energy and they can last for thousands of years, as shown when the three used on Atlantis lasted about 3,333 years each protecting the city from the ocean. Not dramatic in any way. However when it comes to weapons fire, explosions and Rodney screaming they are all going to die, that increases the dramatic effect which causes a ZPM capable of lasting 3,333 years on basic power levels to run for about 24 hours.

    Naquadria is the opposite. Dramatic effect increases it's power because an exploding [planet] is awesome to watch so Naquadria will beat ZPM every time.
    interestingly, you are wrong. (well partially).


    a ZPM holding back the ocean requires 10^27 joules of energy *don't ask for the calcs, it's buried in a humongous thread*

    however a ZPM blowing up a planet requires 10^33 joules of energy.


    so in reality, the ZPM's doing the long constant drain actually weren't full.



    the only real case of uber bull is the Progeny case where the Asuras cityship blows up and they need all 3 ZPM's, but it can be presumed that the atlantis class has proper failsafes to prevent uber explosions with ZPM's




    oh and in case you need some convincing:

    the anubis asteroid could blow up in a small nova. and it was a 137 kilometer if memory serves asteroid.


    naquahdah is pretty damn powerful. naquahdriah even more so. and when you have planet-scale amounts of them, you outdo ZPM's.



    in fact, with plain uranium i could generate ZPM levels of energy. you'd just need a jupiter sized planet or greater

  14. #14
    Brigadier General SaberBlade's Avatar
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    Default Re: how is naquadria more powerful then zpm's?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Asgard_live View Post
    I agree with you. The only explanation seems to be bad writing.

    An O'neill Device can boost the power on a gate enough for galaxy-to-galaxy wormhole travel. Its powered by a single staff weapon. What would happen with 10 staff weapons? Then there is Naquida generators, how are they not more powerful than a staff weapon? Once SG1 had those, why would they need an O'Neill device anymore?
    The O'Neill device isn't a ZPM, it's just a fancy circuit breaker. The gate is capable to using enough power from the SGC to allow it to connect to another gate within the Milky Way. To connect to another galaxy requires much more power, and while the SGC is able to provide the power, it's unable to properly control it and all the circuit breakers would blow and cut off power.


    At various times Atlantis had a ZPM, they were able to dial Earth at regular intervals to check in. Is it a simple multiplier? Does dialing the distance to earth twice mean you could have dialed a galaxy twice the distance from earth-pegasus once? If that is the case, if you count how many times they dialed Earth, just how far out there could they have dialed?
    The Milky Way is 100,000 light years across (give or take) so this is the limit that one gate can dial another within the galaxy using seven symbols. Atlantis is 2 million light years away. However, just because a DHD can be used more than 20 times, doesn't mean that it has 20 times the power available to dial Pegasus.

    Destiny was launched over 50 million years ago (the Antarctic gate was at least that old) so assuming Destiny stopped only for refuels and travels at the speed of light, it's at least over 50 million light years away. So that just shows how much power is needed.

    [Thor was able to open a wormhole back to his home planet (galaxy) with a tiny hand held (stone?) device.
    No different than a ZPM, but not as powerful. Only needs enough energy to dial a gate between galaxies, not do it 50 times and power a ship.

    An Asgard ship was able to get from its home galaxy to earth in what? 2-10 minutes?
    It's hard to judge, because shows don't often show things in proper order, or in a proper or even realistic fashion. If there is 5 minutes left in an episode, then it seems like 5 minutes. if they do it within the episodes allotted time.

    Somehow, pre-supergate, the priors of the Ori were able to dial the gates from their home galaxy presumably ridiculously far away and end up in the Milky Way. Earth should ask them about that...
    Black holes. It is a bit stupid they (the writers) never thought about it since it was a huge part of SG1 towards the end. Or the Ori themselves powered it.



  15. #15
    Second Lieutenant MathiasE's Avatar
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    Default Re: how is naquadria more powerful then zpm's?

    Quote Originally Posted by tomaso88 View Post
    I assumed the naquadria is no where near as powerful as a zpm since Samantha said in the last episode jonas quin was in that if the naquadria exploded their contentent would be destroyed or whatever and their planet would be un habitable since all the ash and what not but if the naquadria is as powerful as they are saying in SGU then a lot more then the whole planet would have been destroyed hell prob 1/6 of the galaxy since some one did calculations saying it would take around 300-700 zpm's to dial destiny using atlantis's zpm as a basis


    so how powerful actually is naquadria at one point they are saying it would be enough to destroy a partial part of the planet yet we know for a fact a zpm its self could destroy 1 solar system when fully powered so wouldnt the naquadria be so much more powerfuller
    Well Kelowna didn't have a Naquadria core at the time she said that, only chunks of Naquadah had been transformed into Naquadria, the reason they wanted to dial Destiny now from Kelowna is probably because more of the planets core has been converted into naquadria as a result of the chain reaction that was started when they used their Naquadria nukes.
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  16. #16
    Chief Master Sergeant jefferyb's Avatar
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    Default Re: how is naquadria more powerful then zpm's?

    It could be about the type of energy needed at one time, like zpms build slowly to full power, naquadria seems to boom all at once, for the x-factor of a 9 symbol address you would need to factor in a need for a boom of energy.

  17. #17
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: how is naquadria more powerful then zpm's?

    it's a simple matter of quantity. it's power versus energy. for many people identical. but so damn different. you can have all the energy in the world and still have a shortage of power. you can have more power than the entire planet generates, and still not have enough energy.

  18. #18
    Staff Sergeant Yipikyyaysupremecommanderthor's Avatar
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    Default Re: how is naquadria more powerful then zpm's?

    Naquadria is not as powerful than a zpm but just the sheer quantitiy of the amount of naquadria i mean it was a whole planet full of it thats alot of energy plus we dont have that many zpms seeing we cant make them.....How r there planets with naquadria deposits the goauld created naquadria on langaara as a different isotope of naquadah naquadria does not occur naturally
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  19. #19
    First Lieutenant Starsaber's Avatar
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    Default Re: how is naquadria more powerful then zpm's?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yipikyyaysupremecommanderthor View Post
    Naquadria is not as powerful than a zpm but just the sheer quantitiy of the amount of naquadria i mean it was a whole planet full of it thats alot of energy plus we dont have that many zpms seeing we cant make them.....How r there planets with naquadria deposits the goauld created naquadria on langaara as a different isotope of naquadah naquadria does not occur naturally
    Was it ever confirmed that it can't occur naturally? I know that on Langara, a Goa'uld created it, but how do we know that there weren't some planets like Icarus where it occurs naturally? Maybe one of his enemies controlled the Alliance's Icarus planet, so the Langaran Goa'uild wanted to create his own naquadria to keep from getting taken over.

  20. #20
    Lieutenant Colonel Mister Oragahn's Avatar
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    Default Re: how is naquadria more powerful then zpm's?

    Never confirmed as far as I know. That said the phenomenon exists, so in a way, it is natural, but with a little push I suppose. Still, it is intimately tied to naqahdah. It doesn't trigger an atomic alteration on any other substance. Naqahdah itself is such an impossible material, I think it is linked to subspace in a way or another. I'd see both naqahdah and naqahdria as more or less natural portals to subspace, as they cause bleeding of subspace into realspace. With naqahdah, it's manageable and can be very clean. With naqahdria, it's not manageable above a certain strain on the particles themselves.
    As I pointed out a looong time ago, there's a certain parallel to draw between the behaviour of naqahdria and the Arcturus core in how they become unstable the more they're tapped, and how both of them project slow moving waves of supposedly radioactive energy that burns organic tissues, down to a strong similarity in the visual effect!

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