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  1. #1
    First Lieutenant Teal'c_PI's Avatar
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    Default What's happening to Helen Magnus??

    Sorry if anything I say below is a little inaccurate...I haven't been around for a while, and I haven't seen any episodes of season 3 yet.

    From what I've been reading lately, I'm having a bit of a problem with the way Helen's character is going. In season 1, I thought she was an absolutely wonderful, original character - strong, dedicated, independent, intelligent, and wise. She was a proud and loving mother, and a powerful fighter. And the love of her life was John Druitt.

    But suddenly, things are changing. First there's Next Tuesday, when Helen apparently is planning to go to Germany for a hot date with her old friend;
    Spoiler:
    then she's going to show up at the Sanctuary hung over;
    and who knows what else.

    Plus, Amanda added this in her interview with Next Generation Nepal:
    Hey, wait a second. Can we please give Helen a lover this season? I don’t care whether it’s a male or a female. Just something. We need to show that she actually is a sexy, vivacious woman and not just this rigid-pole-up-her-bum running the Sanctuary with an iron fist—a huge heart but an iron fist. Can we show the feminine side of her character? Let her kiss someone!
    I don't know about everyone else, but I think that Amanda's viewpoint on the character is completely wrong, based on what I've seen of Helen so far. I always associated her with Captain Kirk: he might have had the occasional fling (thanks to Gene Roddenberry) but his first love was the Enterprise. Helen struck me as the type to take that even further - not only was her first duty to the Sanctuary, but her first love was Druitt, and she was going to wait for him forever.

    I think that what seems to be happening to Helen is making her into the usual type of character - maybe even a cliche of sorts. Does she really need to show her feminine side by getting a boyfriend? Can't she loosen up in some other way - watching TV with Kate, even? I don't want to bash Sanctuary, because it's one of my favorite shows of all time, but unless I'm misunderstanding or totally missing some aspects, I don't like what's happening.

    What does everyone else think? Do I need to see season 3 to understand Helen's character?

    ~the guitarists~

  2. #2
    Captain EvenstarSRV's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's happening to Helen Magnus??

    Quote Originally Posted by Teal'c_PI View Post
    But suddenly, things are changing. First there's Next Tuesday, when Helen apparently is planning to go to Germany for a hot date with her old friend;
    Spoiler:
    then she's going to show up at the Sanctuary hung over;
    and who knows what else.
    Well, I think first off the context of Helen's planned visit in Next Tuesday is worth noting. IMHO, it had very little to do with going on a 'hot date' and very much to do with coping with Ashley's lost. Second, regarding the episode Hangover
    Spoiler:
    that may be the title, but from the preview I've seen it's Will, Henry, and Kate who are 'hungover' in some way and Helen arrives in the aftermath of what's happened to them and Sanctuary.


    I don't know about everyone else, but I think that Amanda's viewpoint on the character is completely wrong, based on what I've seen of Helen so far. I always associated her with Captain Kirk: he might have had the occasional fling (thanks to Gene Roddenberry) but his first love was the Enterprise. Helen struck me as the type to take that even further - not only was her first duty to the Sanctuary, but her first love was Druitt, and she was going to wait for him forever.
    While I agree that Druitt was Helen's first love, I don't think the show has ever implied that he was her only love, or that she has been waiting for him for all these years. IIRC, in the pilot she thought he was long dead and then she thought she'd killed him herself at the end of that episode.

    Plus, as Helen said in Requiem, in the intervening decades she has had numerous friends, colleagues, and lovers, so IMHO I don't think that Helen possibly getting a love interest in season 4 is at all out of character or makes her into a cliche. I'm sure a part of her will always love Druitt, but that hasn't kept her from having relationships with others in the past so I personally don't think it would keep her from them in the future either.

    Just my two cents.



  3. #3
    First Lieutenant MissCheerfully's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's happening to Helen Magnus??

    I'll first focus on the 'love side', since the beginning, Amanda, Kindler and cie, wants to make us understand the differences between Sam and Helen, and Helen Magnus is totally okay with her sexuality, as Sam was super shy. I agree with Amanda's POV cuz she is before everything a woman. She lost Ashley and now, I think she needs affection.
    Plus, I agree with John being the FIRST love of her life, she might still have feelings for him, that's possible.. but if she tried and still tries to help him, It's because she feels guilty of what happened to him... and John is the father of her only child.
    Helen said herself in season 1 that she met many lovers in Requiem. So why suddenly everything should be over for her?
    And as Evenstar told you,
    Spoiler:
    Hangover isn’t not about Helen being hungover -she was on a trip, I’m sure for work- and comes back at the Sanctuary.. and it’s a mess.
    DTA ~ Devoted to Amanda
    Proud to be a TESLENITE! <3

  4. #4
    Young’s Fencing Sabre helenmagnus23's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's happening to Helen Magnus??

    Quote Originally Posted by MissCheerfully View Post
    I'll first focus on the 'love side', since the beginning, Amanda, Kindler and cie, wants to make us understand the differences between Sam and Helen, and Helen Magnus is totally okay with her sexuality, as Sam was super shy. I agree with Amanda's POV cuz she is before everything a woman. She lost Ashley and now, I think she needs affection.
    Plus, I agree with John being the FIRST love of her life, she might still have feelings for him, that's possible.. but if she tried and still tries to help him, It's because she feels guilty of what happened to him... and John is the father of her only child.
    Helen said herself in season 1 that she met many lovers in Requiem. So why suddenly everything should be over for her?
    And as Evenstar told you,
    Spoiler:
    Hangover isn’t not about Helen being hungover -she was on a trip, I’m sure for work- and comes back at the Sanctuary.. and it’s a mess.
    Well said MissCheerfully I agree with you and Amanda
    John is her first lover and the father of there only child Ash who was taken from them by the Cabal and know as they are still working things out between them ,Helen need affection from someone .

    Hey, wait a second. Can we please give Helen a lover this season? I don’t care whether it’s a male or a female. Just something. We need to show that she actually is a sexy, vivacious woman and not just this rigid-pole-up-her-bum running the Sanctuary with an iron fist—a huge heart but an iron fist. Can we show the feminine side of her character? Let her kiss someone!
    I love the idea that Magnus not only had male lovers but female as well with haveing such a long life part of it would be curiosity while the other part would overall just be having someone to love and love in return . Which i'm curious to see which direction they go for season 4 a male lover or a female lover.
    GTTSAT
    (''For all Eternity'') Ripperette,MultishipperAmanda=Angel Magnett,Teslan,Willen

  5. #5
    Bridge Officer Cekay's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's happening to Helen Magnus??

    Quote Originally Posted by Teal'c_PI View Post
    I thought she was an absolutely wonderful, original character - strong, dedicated, independent, intelligent, and wise. She was a proud and loving mother, and a powerful fighter. And the love of her life was John Druitt.
    To be honest I agree with everything in that quote apart from the bold. As the others have said she thought John was dead at the beginning of S1
    Spoiler:
    That's been kinda contradicted in S3 due to the Adam Worth thing but still thats the impression given in season 1


    I think if we are really looking at the love of Helen's life we would look more towards her work than to any lovers she may have had. The Sanctuary IMHO is her lifelong work, her legacy and her first priority.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teal'c_PI View Post
    But suddenly, things are changing. First there's Next Tuesday, when Helen apparently is planning to go to Germany for a hot date with her old friend;
    Spoiler:
    then she's going to show up at the Sanctuary hung over;
    and who knows what else.
    100% disagree there sorry.
    I know nothing about hangover so can't speak to that but Next Tuesday was Helen trying to find something to hold on to after Ashley, especially as it was her birthday. Helen doesn't rely on people and loosing her daughter obviously hit her hard. Finding companionship and affection (or even a distraction) doesn't mean her character has degraded at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teal'c_PI View Post
    Helen struck me as the type to take that even further - not only was her first duty to the Sanctuary, but her first love was Druitt, and she was going to wait for him forever.
    I agree about her first duty is to the sanctuary but I think its more than duty for her. And I don't agree with the Druitt idea (partly because I am Teslen shipper) but mostly as it's mentioned several times that Helen has had lovers (didn't she say she spent the night with one of the beetles once?).
    I like the idea of waiting for your first love your whole life -the romantic in me swoons over the idea, but Druitt did betray her completely.. Helen may still love him she was never going to wait for him forever. Especially with the evil energy still in him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teal'c_PI View Post
    I think that what seems to be happening to Helen is making her into the usual type of character - maybe even a cliche of sorts. Does she really need to show her feminine side by getting a boyfriend? Can't she loosen up in some other way - watching TV with Kate, even?
    I don't see her as a cliché at all.. Helen is a highly individual character. I'm trying to think of other characters to relate her too.. Sam? The two are very different in my mind. Janeway from Startrek would be a closer resemblance for me.. I was always disappointed with Startrek for never investigating Janeway's possible relationships.

    Helen lived through some very revolutionary times.. I wonder how she was in the 60's


    Quote Originally Posted by Teal'c_PI View Post
    What does everyone else think? Do I need to see season 3 to understand Helen's character?
    You should watch S3 because it's awesome not just to get more of Helen's character


    Lastly if anything the character I am most disappointed with is Will. He's a genius and a psychiatrist but it is so rarely touched upon, we barely get to see his little flashes of clarity, I feel like we are really missing out. The only improvement in him I've seen was
    Spoiler:
    the argument about Helen's treatment of Adam.


    ^^just IMHO^^

  6. #6
    Lieutenant Colonel selene0789's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's happening to Helen Magnus??

    I do think that some of the sultry playful side of Magnus has fallen by the wayside, but I think this could honestly be a side effect of Ashley's death. I mean, it makes sense, that she would withdraw and fall back on her businesslike side of things to keep herself and her Sanctuary running smoothly. However, I think it's high time the show addresses that. They should talk about it, if not slowly and subtly rectify it.

    As for Will's character development/regression... Yeah, he's kinda lost his profiler's edge, but at the same time he's gaining vital Sanctuary experience, so that he could one day fill his role should something put Magnus out of commission.

    And Cekay mentioned the whole argument he had with Magnus about Worth's treatment-- I disagree that this was an improvement. I think by now Will would have realized that when someone is a threat to the public, steps need to be taken. Worth proved himself to be a dangerous adversary, and in his attempt to put cyanide into the water supply in London he forfeited his right to life.

    And when Will got offended by the fact his one condition about joining the sanctuary was that there would be "no secrets"... Naive. At best. I seriously doubt that Magnus would have lied to him, had he specifically asked about Worth.

    Maybe he should've taken a page out of Cam Mitchell's book and read every single one of Magnus mission reports, from the start of the Sanctuary's inception. It would have told him all about it, and it's immature to think that Magnus would think to tell him every single thing that had happened in her 160 years worth of life without prompting.

  7. #7
    Captain Mousie's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's happening to Helen Magnus??

    I agree with you about Will's reaction to Adam, but IIRC he didn't know the full story and it was initially implied that Helen had killed Adam whilst he was unarmed and trapped, and they only reveiled the full story in later episodes, that she shot him in the shoulder to stop him and that he jumped off the cliff.

    It was implied to Will at the time that Helen may have killed Adam in cold blood and I think that's what he was upset about it, realising after the Big Bertha debacle that there was more, now relevant stuff that Helen hadn't told him.

    However I do agree that it is naive of him to demand that she tell him everything, especially when he understands who Helen is, how much her life IS the Sanctuary, and that essentially he's demanded that she tells him every secret and intimate detail of her very long life.

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