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Thread: The Predator

  1. #41
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Predator

    The animal was intelligent, and recognised that they were also intelligent because of the fire. That's why it let them go.
    every superior predator ever in history is dead. because of humans. we made dozens of species that would absolutely and totally dominate all modern wildlife, go extinct. from bears that make modern bears look cuddly, to wolves that make modern wolves like chihuahua's, to birds that make modern birds look like specs of dust.


    we killed them all. why would the predator out of the good of his heart, let us go. for what sane reason? the only sane thing for the creature to do was kill and attack, since we -being intelligent- are a humongous threat to it.


    like i said, if the creature is intelligent, it raises plotholes, and if it's not intelligent,it raises plotholes.


    even intelligent animals that saved humans, like dolphins, only ever helped us because they didn't loose anything. Dolphins are known to display empathy. they help humans to fight off sharks/orca's. but from a natural POV, this makes sense. by denying their natural opponent their food, they can live in a safer world.


    but this predator allowed outright competition. we were hunting on it's ground. we stood in it's cave. no creature no matter how.. intelligent... will tolerate that.

    we won't even tolerate it ourselves!

  2. #42
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    Default Re: The Predator

    Maybe it understood we would be gone soon..

  3. #43
    Captain Gollumpus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Predator

    Quote Originally Posted by D Toccs View Post
    Because it was the implication of the episode.
    True. This being said, perhaps they should have written it such that the creature witnessed them creating the fire thereby spelling it out a bit more. As it was it was a bit vague.

    Example of where they could/should have gone: the movie "Quest for Fire" (QfF). Not a great film, and they didn't really get a lot of stuff right but there was one very powerful scene where the "hero" sees one of the people from a somewhat more technologically advanced culture make a fire. It was a highly emotional, religious experience for that character. He was from a fire using (even worshiping) culture, not one which made fire. I would put this creature in the same category as the more primitive culture in QfF. They certainly respect it on some level, possibly use it (but for what?), but they do not seem to be capable of creating it.

    As it was, the creature entering the lair, seeing the fire, and putting two and two together that TJ made the fire is a bit of a stretch to me. If it has never made fire, has no knowledge of tool using or fire making, and only uses fire if/when an opportunity arises (like after a lightning strike) why would it think that this new prey is intelligent and that they made the fire? And what value would this creature put on humans being intelligent? Why would it care?

    regards,
    G.

    PS - also (as noted), what would this species need with a fire? The species seems perfectly adapted as a top of the food chain predator.
    Go for Marty...

  4. #44
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    Default Re: The Predator

    True. BUT i also wonder WHERE it learned that 'making fire means intelligence' from? Has it ever seen other aliens do so?

  5. #45
    Captain Gollumpus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Predator

    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    True. BUT i also wonder WHERE it learned that 'making fire means intelligence' from? Has it ever seen other aliens do so?
    This could be the answer. The creature did witness other aliens make and use fire, however it didn't like the taste of them...

    regards,
    G.
    Go for Marty...

  6. #46
    First Lieutenant D Toccs's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Predator

    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    True. BUT i also wonder WHERE it learned that 'making fire means intelligence' from? Has it ever seen other aliens do so?
    Maybe it is also capable of creating fire.

  7. #47
    Colonel knowles2's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Predator

    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    True. BUT i also wonder WHERE it learned that 'making fire means intelligence' from? Has it ever seen other aliens do so?
    Spoiler:
    May be they already met the Destiny gang children. Which we will meet in the near future?

  8. #48
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    Default Re: The Predator

    Unless those
    Spoiler:
    kids have a kino remote to dial out to this critters planet
    i doubt it.

  9. #49
    First Lieutenant D Toccs's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Predator

    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    Unless those
    Spoiler:
    kids have a kino remote to dial out to this critters planet
    i doubt it.
    Spoiler:
    In Twin Destinies, Eli was holding a Kino and remote when he went through the gate.

  10. #50
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Predator

    PS - also (as noted), what would this species need with a fire? The species seems perfectly adapted as a top of the food chain predator.
    part of my list of objections.

    it's a quite large, clearly superior and likely unchallenged predator. why would it need fire? there's a reason why we humans have evolved into naked, weak and slow beings. we have brains. brains consume a lot of power produced by our body, and are a very demanding organ. we don't need to be fast because we can make other stuff carry us. no need to invest in running power then. we have powerful tools, so there is no need to invest in natural tools and weapons. we have intellect to use physics to our advantage, so no need for strength. we domesticated other animals, so the whole hunting adaptation is not needed.

    all is regulated by a single organ that makes all those investments obsolete. our brain. it's the best investment for our body, which is why we are the dominating species.

    none, literally none of this applies to the predator. superior speed, superior strenght, and excellent hunting capabilities, so why in frak's name would they invest in brain power?


    again, fear of fire would've been FAR, FAR more realistic.

  11. #51
    First Lieutenant D Toccs's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Predator

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    none, literally none of this applies to the predator. superior speed, superior strenght, and excellent hunting capabilities, so why in frak's name would they invest in brain power?
    Hunting in packs and coordinating efforts is the start along the evolutionary path of developing higher intelligence. By your standards Orcas or Dolphins should have no need to develop intelligence, yet we know for a fact that they have.

    Just because Humans developed intelligence one way, does not mean that is the only way it could be done.

  12. #52
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Predator

    Hunting in packs and coordinating efforts is the start along the evolutionary path of developing higher intelligence. By your standards Orcas or Dolphins should have no need to develop intelligence, yet we know for a fact that they have.
    true. i must've exaggarated it a bit.

    still, i meant, focusing. brains have a use otherwise no creature would have it. but the Homo Sapiens focused on the brain and invested a lot of energy into it and not in other things like claws and speed and strenght.

    but this predator is an excellent predator. granted, intellect is needed for living in packs and the size of the pack is related to the size of the brain. but given their predatory nature, their pack can't be too big. and given their speed and strenght, they don't need much coordination to catch their prey.


    By your standards Orcas or Dolphins should have no need to develop intelligence, yet we know for a fact that they have.
    given that they haven't conquered the seas with spears etc, i can say they're still inferior to us.


    although i must note that actual research into intelligence and these type of questions is barely off the ground.

  13. #53
    First Lieutenant D Toccs's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Predator

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    still, i meant, focusing. brains have a use otherwise no creature would have it. but the Homo Sapiens focused on the brain and invested a lot of energy into it and not in other things like claws and speed and strenght.
    You make it sound like it is all strategically planned out.
    There was no point when Homo Sapiens or our ancestors sat around and decided to focus on brain power over claws or speed.
    Evolution is all about adapting to situation, it just happens, there is no strategy or tactical thought on behalf of the species.

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    given that they haven't conquered the seas with spears etc, i can say they're still inferior to us.
    Tool making is just one facet of being intelligent, it is not the be all and end all. Creatures such as Dolphins, Orcas or the Predator from this episode could possess equal intelligence and intellect to us and yet not have the need to make tools.

  14. #54
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Predator

    You make it sound like it is all strategically planned out.
    There was no point when Homo Sapiens or our ancestors sat around and decided to focus on brain power over claws or speed.
    Evolution is all about adapting to situation, it just happens, there is no strategy or tactical thought on behalf of the species.
    evolution is all about energy. somewhere along the line, there was a Homo member who had slightly bigger brains and he survived better. and his offspring too. and their offspring. whereas other Homo members were perhaps faster, perhaps stronger, the smart Homo was more versatile and thus survived better.



    if evolution is just a bunch of accidents, it won't work. it's about energy. in times of need, you want to spend your energy right. not just in building but also in maintaining an organ. and the brain is a good, versatile organ. the smarter Homo figured out how to survive when faster and stronger Homo did not.


    Evolution is all about adapting to situation, it just happens, there is no strategy or tactical thought on behalf of the species.
    true but energy is the driving force behind all. the power of Entropy drives all. from chemical reactions to succesfull adaptations.

    consider it like this:

    making a hand costs, say, 100 arbitrary energy units. making a claw costs 300 AE. if you go for the normal hand, you have freed up 200 AE. for a predator, the 300 AE is a costly but useful investment, since it will up it's energy income.

    for a proto-intelligent species, such an investment isn't useful. an opposable thumb, costing say 20 AE, is a much better investment to them than a claw, since it makes their energy income better.


    these aren't actual conscious choices. i know that. but there are only so many roads to walk, and there is only so much energy you have to invest. whatever species invests the least energy to get the most energy income wins. we don't invest a whole lot of energy into our body, but we do get a LOT of energy for that. we have won. our brains allow us to invest less energy for a greater energy income. tools are the proof.


    a fish is far, far more hydrodynamic than any submarine or boat we build. they are far, far more hydrodynamic than us humans. they have ensured they need less energy to go faster and further and thus increase their energy income.

    the actual dynamics of this system look very, very different but the actual theory behind it works.


    you can see it everywhere. why do you think we have a tailbone. it's seemingly illogical. but it's a remnant of not needing tails. and thus we slowly unbuilt our tail. but should we need one again, most DNA is still in there thus reverse-evolution is still an option.


    the actual mechanism is that there was once a Homo who had a slightly shorter tail, needed slightly less energy and survived slightly better. and his children did too. and theirs too.

  15. #55
    First Lieutenant D Toccs's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Predator

    I understand how evolution works, and from your previous post I can see that you do as well.
    My only issue was that your wording was making it sound like conscious strategic choices, which is not.

    I still stand by my statement, that a creature could possess intelligence and intellect equal to our own and yet have no need for tools.

  16. #56
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Predator

    i still stand by my statement, that a creature could possess intelligence and intellect equal to our own and yet have no need for tools.
    then it will have limited intellect

  17. #57
    First Lieutenant D Toccs's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Predator

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    then it will have limited intellect
    You're wrong. Making tools is not the be all and end all of intelligence or intellect.

    That's like saying that if a person doesn't know algebra they must be a moron.

  18. #58
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Predator

    Have we decided on a fandom name for this critter yet?
    "Not every movie is for you. Not every TV show is for you. Not every song is for you. Find the things you like, and like them. Go nuts liking them. A thing ISN’T for you? Cool. Go find something you like. That’s it. That’s as complicated as it should be." -- David Blue

  19. #59
    Second Lieutenant Shylodog's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Predator

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    Have we decided on a fandom name for this critter yet?
    BLD? Balding Luck Dragon?

  20. #60
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Predator

    That's like saying that if a person doesn't know algebra they must be a moron.
    no that's like saying someone who doesn't know algebra isn't as well equipped as someone who does.


    never mind the VAST superiority any toolmaking race has. humans became dominant because of tools. quite a big part of our intellectual evolution fulled and was fuelled by tools. tools provide a massive advantage you can't ignore. there is a big limit for whatever race doesn't. it limits food income and thus, limits the amount of extra activities and organs it can produce.

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