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  1. #161
    Major General
    Member Since
    Feb 2007

    Default Re: So that was pretty much the most underhanded thing we've ever done

    Or something catastrophically wrong happened.

  2. #162
    Captain Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jul 2009
    Leeds,West Yorkshire, U.K

    Default Re: So that was pretty much the most underhanded thing we've ever done

    Quote Originally Posted by morrismike View Post
    Wasn't France busy preparing a big parade in Paris for the Nazi arrival?
    I don't know if your being sarcastic or not but if your not they did sort of take Paris without a shot being fired. But they knew the were beat german blitzkrieg was very successful. We and the French were fighting with WW1 tactics the Nazis weren't.

    And I would just like to point out it's McKay not McCay.

  3. #163
    Brigadier General LoneStar1836's Avatar
    Member Since
    May 2004

    Default Re: So that was pretty much the most underhanded thing we've ever done

    Quote Originally Posted by blackluster View Post
    Because there is no point? I can't recall the Lucian Alliance ever being characterized as fanatic. Their political structure doesn't even seem to feature any kind of religion whatsoever, they are allies of convenience. Why go the suicide bomber route when it is completely unnecessary, both from an universe perspective and from a story telling perspective?
    I know they've never been characterized that religious fanatics...and I don't ever expect or care for them to be portrayed that way. They already did that with the Ori, but my point is if these are drug dealing warlord thugs are supposed to be taken seriously by me, then I honestly don't believe they'd actually value the life of some pilot over the goal of a mission as big as this one. Why take the chance on a timer? Send someone willing to die or rig the thing to blow on impact as some unsuspecting prole flew it into the Pentagon. Bomb blows up and then Earth starts to take you more seriously and might be willing to negotiate or whatever it is the LA is after.

    That failed attempt wasn't through any kind of skill or ingenuity on Earth's part, just dumb luck. If you find yourself unable to take undetectable nuclear attacks on your headquarters seriously, then I really don't know what to tell you.
    I'm talking about how the rest of the galaxy perceives them....hence the comment about making recruiting videos just like the jihadis do. Botched attacks can make you look weak to others watching. Doesn't exactly make a statement if you can't actually blow anything up and cripple your greatest foe. (Actually the writing does somewhat parallel current events as in 1993 the botched bombing of the World Trade Center with a truck bomb eventually led to 9/11 and suicide attacks.) I bet their next plan to attack Earth includes suicide bombers.

    My intent wasn't to be underhanded, just poking fun. Your opinion on the threat you perceive from the Lucian Alliance is entirely subjective, so there is no point debating it, not for me at least.
    Which is why I find it highly advisable to stick to the discussion of the subject and not start making comments about the poster...joking or not...since this is in written form and hard to judge what the poster intends by it. That guideline has generally served me well all these years at GW.

    They're not more powerful, but they're proving themselves to be a damn sight more dangerous. Honestly, SGU's Lucian Alliance make the Ori look like simpletons. Considering the net achievement, the Ori were pretty much a joke when all is said and done.
    The Ori were a joke because the writers made them a joke. They were given uber weapons, but they had to be kept stupid in order for Earth not to be wiped out. With the LA, it's the opposite. They have to be puffed up and made out to be formidable. I considered the LA episodes in SG-1 to be among the worst because it was laughable that the SGC even bothered with drug dealers peddling magic space corn. How we ever got entangled with them in the first place only adds to my dislike of bringing the LA over to SGU, and then making them a focal point.

    You misunderstand. I was agreeing with your assertion and following it to a logical end where it is one of the opinions that I feel is a strong voice in Earth decision making. The point I was making is that it is one of many approaches and has its own benefits and drawbacks. The very nature of this kind of political situation is that there is no correct approach, the IOA is only left with bad choices and worse choices. Someone somewhere is guaranteed to lose.
    I agree. My initial point in making that statement was to point out the ruthlessness in what Earth did on Langara, and that the abandoning of other worlds to the hands of the LA might as be next on their list of things to do. It Earth is so willing to blow up a planet with millions and a source of naquadria, then what do other backwater planets matter to them in the scheme of things. Other than the strategic ones for military outposts/resources.

    I don't see how it contradicts canon so I don't know what you are talking about.
    I never said it contradicted canon. But canon does lend itself to how the Langaran political structure operates. Last I knew it was a conglomeration of the different factions that inhabit that planet...three main groups iircc. Those three groups greatly distrusted each other. I'd find it a huge stretch to believe that after so little time they'd all willingly agree to let the LA use their planet to dial Destiny...especially after knowing what happened the previous two times. Hence, if the other groups knew what was going on and didn't agree to it, they'd warn Earth or try to mount a defense against such a plan...attack whoever is holding the gate, etc.

    Earth knows Langarans were in contact with the LA. The UK and other allies talk to terrorist nations, but I'm not going to suddenly assume that the UK is in bed with Iran just because they exchange communications that I can't read. That is such a huge leap in logic.

    Well, at least you conceded the covert aspect. The 9th chevron dial attempt is a convoluted issue by itself since one can fashion any number of reasons Earth would get more serious.

    -One is an internal political aspect, as the visit from the senator and scientist goes, the Destiny mission has become about a bit more than the people stranded there.
    I always found the convert stuff to be believable as my previous posts in this thread and others attest to.

    As an example, the US is not going to put a priority on a manned mission to Mars over a military action on Earth. In SGU, Earth is willing to gamble the trust of an ally, the lives of millions, and a valuable resource (naquadria) on some mission to discover an ancient signal.

    -The other is willing informants. Currently, Earth's ability to impede Lucian Alliance activity has essentially failed. So far the Alliance has managed to launch a rather successful counter-intelligence campaign against Earth, even achieving the unthinkable of brainwashing and turning an Airforce Colonel, a very high ranking officer who has given them goodness knows what already. Earth's sources of intelligence seem wholly ineffective in even stopping cloaked Tel'taks from coming and going from our atmosphere. Given this alarming position, Earth has a gift in a number of Alliance Traitors who they can draw info from. That is an information source that given the current state of affairs is desperately needed.
    By now, the LA on Destiny should have offered up everything they knew. There is generally a window of usefulness for info sources like them. Once they are out of the loop, what new info could they possibly offer? Conveniently, Varro knew how to defuse the bomb, but he's certainly not worth the lives of millions.

    -Another reason is technology acquisition. So far the Lucian Alliance are able to successfully jam Asgard beaming and sensor technology which was supposed to be years ahead of the Goa'uld tech that the Lucian supposedly just stole and don't understand. The Alliance are learning at a very alarming rate, neutralizing several of the core technologies that gave Earth an edge in most space conflicts. Letting the Alliance acquire Destiny is a disaster waiting to happen as they seem to have some background info on the ship that Earth doesn't, even with the Atlantis database. If they are able to acquire any sort of technological edge through the Destiny's technology, Earth would be at a major disadvantage.
    Which is why you work with the Langarans and agree to protect them like they had asked for. But Earth was holding military protection over their heads. "You either let us use your gate to dial Destiny...NOW, or no military protection for you."

    TELFORD (to Ovirda): The Lucian Alliance wants Destiny. They know that your facility can get them there, and you know damned well that they will not take "no" for an answer.

    OVIRDA: There's an excellent argument to dismantle the facility altogether.

    TELFORD: Don't think that that will stop them. They will move in faster. They will do anything to get to the Destiny, and won't give a damn if they blow up your planet in the process.

    OVIRDA: Then don't let them.

    WOOLSEY: If we were allowed to show you that Doctor McKay's dialling solution is safe ...

    OVIRDA: Oh, that is the price of your protection from the Lucian Alliance?

    WOOLSEY: As a life-long practitioner of diplomacy, you must understand that sovereign states act in their own interest.

    OVIRDA: The defence of a supply line, for example.

    WOOLSEY (holding his gaze): For example.

    OVIRDA: If and when our scientists reach the same conclusion as Doctor McKay ...

    McKAY: No-no-no-no-no-no. It could take months for them to understand the science.

    OVIRDA: Then that is how long you will have to wait.

    TELFORD: The Alliance won't be as patient.

    OVIRDA: I have no choice but to hope that you are wrong. Good day, gentlemen.
    IMO always implied.

  4. #164
    Major General
    Member Since
    Feb 2007

    Default Re: So that was pretty much the most underhanded thing we've ever done

    Just like when shepard was making that deal in the Eye/storm, for that planet to house the lantean evacuees, "its better to be our friends than our enemies".

  5. #165
    Staff Sergeant sholva1's Avatar
    Member Since
    Apr 2011

    Default Re: So that was pretty much the most underhanded thing we've ever done

    hahaha other humans matter not, Earth humans lives take precedence over all


  6. #166
    Major General
    Member Since
    Feb 2007

    Default Re: So that was pretty much the most underhanded thing we've ever done

    It does seem that way.

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