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  1. #1
    Chief Master Sergeant
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    Default Anyone else still not buying the LA as the major antagonist?

    Granted, the tone of SG1/SGA was a little more gung-ho, but Cheyenne Mountain has stood up to the likes of the System Lords and Anubis. Yes, I know the Asgard were watching our butt at the time. It still seems really weird that they're now so completely vulnerable to what's essentially the Space Yakuza.

    Cloaked cargo ship, naquadriah bomb...fine, sure. I'll accept that they're somehow able to source naquadriah (something that, presumably, only occurred "naturally" on Jonas' homeworld and only a handful of people in the galaxy know how to synthesize). I'll accept that, after all this time, they havent figured out a way to break a cargo ship's cloak (with the Asgard database now, no less), even though for years they've been talking about cloaked cargo ships as a potential weapons delivery device.

    But come on, the amount of infiltration in the SGC, really? Case in point, how do you get one of your own guys in uniform on the base? Dont they check ID badges when you come in, dont they check against the duty schedule to see if you exist? Wouldnt you eventually trigger some shibboleth to the other airman that, you know, you're not from Earth and you dont know what a McDonalds is?

    It just seems like it should take a lot more than one pilot with a crude bomb and a cloaked ship to take out SGC. If it was that easy, you gotta believe someone else woulda tried it by now

    I know they cant just keep coming up with bigger and badder enemies, from Goa'uld to Anubis to Ori. I just think they havent really done a good job of establishing the LA as a credible menace, they've only really done a good job of making the SGC seem like they're slacking off and letting their guard down.

  2. #2
    Captain chrono trigger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else still not buying the LA as the major antagonist?

    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Granted, the tone of SG1/SGA was a little more gung-ho, but Cheyenne Mountain has stood up to the likes of the System Lords and Anubis. Yes, I know the Asgard were watching our butt at the time. It still seems really weird that they're now so completely vulnerable to what's essentially the Space Yakuza.

    Cloaked cargo ship, naquadriah bomb...fine, sure. I'll accept that they're somehow able to source naquadriah (something that, presumably, only occurred "naturally" on Jonas' homeworld and only a handful of people in the galaxy know how to synthesize). I'll accept that, after all this time, they havent figured out a way to break a cargo ship's cloak (with the Asgard database now, no less), even though for years they've been talking about cloaked cargo ships as a potential weapons delivery device.

    But come on, the amount of infiltration in the SGC, really? Case in point, how do you get one of your own guys in uniform on the base? Dont they check ID badges when you come in, dont they check against the duty schedule to see if you exist? Wouldnt you eventually trigger some shibboleth to the other airman that, you know, you're not from Earth and you dont know what a McDonalds is?

    It just seems like it should take a lot more than one pilot with a crude bomb and a cloaked ship to take out SGC. If it was that easy, you gotta believe someone else woulda tried it by now

    I know they cant just keep coming up with bigger and badder enemies, from Goa'uld to Anubis to Ori. I just think they havent really done a good job of establishing the LA as a credible menace, they've only really done a good job of making the SGC seem like they're slacking off and letting their guard down.
    i agree i think sgu made a big mistake bringing the lucian alliance in.

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  3. #3
    John Diggle DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else still not buying the LA as the major antagonist?

    No, I don't agree. And I think there's valid explanations for pretty much every complaint you've just made.
    "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

  4. #4
    Colonel s09119's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else still not buying the LA as the major antagonist?

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    No, I don't agree. And I think there's valid explanations for pretty much every complaint you've just made.
    Seconded. They've made excellent Milky Way antagonists so far.
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  5. #5
    Major Ukko's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else still not buying the LA as the major antagonist?

    Didnt this thread used to be bigger?


  6. #6
    Staff Sergeant Lianne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else still not buying the LA as the major antagonist?

    I agree. The only small remark I remeber about lucian alliance is from SG1 episode, where they had the problem with the purple corn (kassa? or what was it...)

    Since then, LA is stuck in my head as some minor gang, and it could be either with my lack of interest or other things, that it never made into serious bad guy. I still don´t pay attention to the LA plot at all. I just don´t/ can´t/ believe it´s seriousness.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Anyone else still not buying the LA as the major antagonist?

    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post

    I know they cant just keep coming up with bigger and badder enemies, from Goa'uld to Anubis to Ori. I just think they havent really done a good job of establishing the LA as a credible menace, they've only really done a good job of making the SGC seem like they're slacking off and letting their guard down.
    I think that is the reason where all your problems stem from regarding the Lucian Alliance. I also think a lot of it has to do with how they were portrayed in SG-1 which is an incompetent group of mercenaries. They did a good job trying to alter their image in season 1 of SGU, but I think a lot of people still think of them as what we saw in SG-1 and then find it hard to believe all that they've done to successfully infiltrate and attack Earth.

    I know when I hear Lucian Alliance my first thought is of Katan their leader from SG-1 as opposed to the leader that helped LA get on destiny (Rhona Mirta forget the character's name).

  8. #8
    Lieutenant Colonel
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    Default Re: Anyone else still not buying the LA as the major antagonist?

    I buy it, really not that far of a stretch.....

  9. #9
    First Lieutenant Greenfire32's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else still not buying the LA as the major antagonist?

    agreed.

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  10. #10
    Quinn 'Q-Ball' Mallory hedwig's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else still not buying the LA as the major antagonist?

    I thought the SGC had been closed down when Cheyenne Mountain did, and thus the gate got moved elsewhere (somewhere closer to the Pentagon and Washington D.C.). I haven't seen the latest SGU episodes, so am not sure what the talk about the SGC and the L.A. is about.

  11. #11
    Second Lieutenant
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    Default Re: Anyone else still not buying the LA as the major antagonist?

    It actually reminds me of the Ferengi in Star Trek TNG vs. the Ferengi in Star Trek DS9. In the early TNG episodes where we met the Ferengi, they were portrayed as much more Klingon like and vicious (remember those wierd whip-like weapons they had that never showed up again?) DS9 changed that and from DS9 on (except for maybe the earlier episodes) the Ferengi were the comics of the Trek universe, so watching the early Ferengi episodes is hard given how much they changed from TNG to DS9.

    The Lucian Alliance have the same problem, but the opposite. In SG-1 they were portrayed as a bit less ruthless than in SG-1 so in SGU they seem very different. I think another big problem is that they were introduced towards the end of SG-1 when the focus was more on the Ori and Baal so those villains always overshadowed the LA and they never really had a chance to take the limelight. Not like the Replicators, who had their shining moments. I think had SG-1 continued that the LA would have appeared more as a serious villain.

    That being said, I actually like what SGU has done to the LA. It does make sense that you would have power groups move in and try to replace the Go'auld and SGU has done a good job IMO in presenting the LA as a formidable enemy to the Milky Way galaxy.
    That is just my two cents.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Anyone else still not buying the LA as the major antagonist?

    The Lucian Alliance attacked Homeworld Command, not the SGC, which is still in Cheyenne Mountain until an actual episode of Stargate says otherwise. Why would the real life closing of NORAD mean the fictional moving of the SGC?

    I enjoy SGU, but, in terms of plot it's a huge disconnect from the previous two shows. By the end of SG-I, the Jaffa seem to be far better candidates for a threat to Earth. After all, they're bred to be superior soldiers, it's apparent that some of them still rely on Goa'uld for their strength, they've inherited the bulk of their masters' play things, they have a shaky but viable government. Granted, many Jaffa consider humans their allies, but I was under the impression from SG-1 that many more held humans in contempt.

    Then there's the whole Trust situation that vanished into the plot hole monster's gullet. You know, the Goa'uld who had infiltrated the American and Russian governments that nearly caused WW III? They didn't go anywhere. We didn't kill them all. Ba'al being executed didn't cause all the Goa'uld to magically disappear. And then there's Senator Kinsey. But all of that conveniently disappears without any resolution. That's weak writing.

    And all of that Ori technology left over after that conflict? Think about it; wars are messy affairs. Mines and other ordnance left over from conflicts that ended decades ago lay in wait today. You expect me to believe that the MASSIVE Ori invasion force that nearly converted all of our galaxy didn't leave stuff behind when they returned to their galaxy (assuming they returned to their galaxy; from how Ark of Truth played out and considering how subsequent Atlantis and Universe episodes played out, all that stuff magically vanished just like the Trust did).

    But no. The Lucian Alliance, who in SG-1 were a bumbling bunch of corn farmers who couldn't maintain a reliable semblance of government are now THE BIG BAD.

  13. #13
    Ranch Hand Python's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else still not buying the LA as the major antagonist?

    They haven't done a very good job of establishing motive. The Goa'uld and Ori wanted to be worshipped. That's a very different and more interesting motive than just "power" which is bland and generic.

  14. #14
    Lieutenant General Pharaoh Atem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else still not buying the LA as the major antagonist?

    Quote Originally Posted by chrono trigger View Post
    i agree i think sgu made a big mistake bringing the lucian alliance in.
    and i think the opposite the LA have put earth in a situation it can't easily deal with.

  15. #15
    First Lieutenant Greenfire32's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else still not buying the LA as the major antagonist?

    Quote Originally Posted by hedwig View Post
    I thought the SGC had been closed down when Cheyenne Mountain did, and thus the gate got moved elsewhere (somewhere closer to the Pentagon and Washington D.C.)
    What are you on about? When was it established that the SGC closed shop? I thought the whole purpose of "Unending" was to show us that while SG-1 is over, they're still out there.

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  16. #16
    Captain Gollumpus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else still not buying the LA as the major antagonist?

    I don't have a problem with the LA as the *current* major antagonist. They are the logical choices for a group to take advantage of the power vacuum left with the departure of the goa'uld. Other groups might be slower to take advantage of the situation.

    However, if the SG franchise continues for years to come, I imagine that a different antagonist would have to be developed. Assuming a Milky Way based show, I suspect it would have to be someone we have already met. Candidates might be: replicators (yes, I'm tired of them as well); the Aschen might expand with the absence of the goa'uld; or the aliens from "Foothold" could be brought forward, assuming they were able to gain control of another Milky Way planet. They could also be used as a tie-in with SGU as these guys are supposed to be from a different galaxy.

    Why would it be an known foe? The reason for this is that there has been a lot of exploration of the MW through the stargate. We would have already heard of a different race, even if only in rumours. Yes, the galaxy is a *BIG* place and we have only visited a small number of planets. This being said, I see what the SGC has done as being a scatter gun effect in exploration. They would have covered as much territory as possible: divide the galaxy in half; quarter it; then to eighths and so on. Assuming you meet an advanced race in any one of those sections who want share information you would find out about a new potential threat.

    The goa'uld were the top dogs for thousands of years and they had already wiped out most of their potential threats. There wouldn't be a lot of options for a homegrown enemy except from a list similar to what we already know (this includes the "Foothold" aliens), and if they wanted an external threat then the "Foothold" aliens fill that bill.

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  17. #17
    First Lieutenant D Toccs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else still not buying the LA as the major antagonist?

    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Cloaked cargo ship, naquadriah bomb...fine, sure. I'll accept that they're somehow able to source naquadriah (something that, presumably, only occurred "naturally" on Jonas' homeworld and only a handful of people in the galaxy know how to synthesize).
    The Goa'uld created naquadariah, the LA had a base on a former Goa'uld world which had a naquadriah core. It seems perfectly logical that the LA would mine some of the naquadriah for weapons purposes while they were working on dialing Destiny.

    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    But come on, the amount of infiltration in the SGC, really? Case in point, how do you get one of your own guys in uniform on the base? Dont they check ID badges when you come in, dont they check against the duty schedule to see if you exist? Wouldnt you eventually trigger some shibboleth to the other airman that, you know, you're not from Earth and you dont know what a McDonalds is?
    I assume you're referring to "airman" Evans. He was not an infiltrator in the base, he was the pilot of the cargo ship. As Wray theorized the original plan was probably to land the the ship nearby or on the roof and then the pilot just walks away. The reason he had the uniform on was so that he wouldn't be noticed when he walked away, not so that he could infiltrate the building.

    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    It just seems like it should take a lot more than one pilot with a crude bomb and a cloaked ship to take out SGC. If it was that easy, you gotta believe someone else woulda tried it by now
    The only reason that the Goa'uld didn't try was because first they were afraid of the Asgard and didn't want to break the PPT, and then they were afraid of the Ancient weapons platform.

    The Lucian Alliance seem perfectly credible as an enemy to me. Unlike the Goa'uld or the Ori the LA are not an evil empire bent on galactic domination that goes around enslaving people, they are just a large scale criminal organization and the SGC is combating them accordingly with undercover operatives and sabotaging kassa shipments. The LA/Earth war is a war that is fought with infiltration and subterfuge.

  18. #18
    General the fifth man's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else still not buying the LA as the major antagonist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharaoh Atem View Post
    and i think the opposite the LA have put earth in a situation it can't easily deal with.
    I totally agree. I think they have made the Lucian Alliance a very credible foe. I have no problem with them being the major problem for Earth at the moment.

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  19. #19
    Colonel Replicator Todd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else still not buying the LA as the major antagonist?

    Quote Originally Posted by the fifth man View Post
    I totally agree. I think they have made the Lucian Alliance a very credible foe. I have no problem with them being the major problem for Earth at the moment.
    Indeed! I am loving TPTB for putting the Lucian Alliance into SGU. Its great to have a enemy from SG1 expand into a different part of the franchise.

  20. #20
    Staff Sergeant Dii-Reno's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else still not buying the LA as the major antagonist?

    I just have a hard time figuring out why the LA should care about earth or it's off world military bases. Wasn't the LA said to have control over a dozen or so worlds? In the grand scheme of things thats a drop in a very large bucket. With the estimated billions of planets in our galaxy, there is plenty of room to share between the LA, Jafa, and Earth.

    Besides, using WMDs is a slippery slope. The LA knows we have the ability to put down bombs just as easily as they do. It's called mutually assured self destruction. If they cloak bomb us we cloak bomb them. After any attack we would lay planet busters on their worlds. Stargate command would have a detailed record of their installations.

    It just seems like a week attempt by the writers to draw parallels between the LA and real world terrorism. They have to have a milky way antagonist, so they draw an example from the real world. The only problem is, the only reason we have trouble with terrorism is because we all live so close together. With 7 billion people living on the same rock, there is bound to be some trouble.
    Last edited by Dii-Reno; March 26th, 2011 at 11:17 PM.

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