Anyone else still not buying the LA as the major antagonist?

[hedwig]

Seriously? All that means is that they didn't gate to Earth.

SGC is still there until someone actually says it isn't.

In case you didn't read it, here's the last line of my comment to refresh your memory:

It doesn't have to make sense to everyone, since pretty much everyone has their own ideas about what did or did not happen.

[ultimategurion]

In case you didn't read it, here's the last line of my comment to refresh your memory:

It doesn't have to make sense to everyone, since pretty much everyone has their own ideas about what did or did not happen.

As fun as fan speculation is, it isn't cannon.

[D Toccs]

Maybe we did. As that plot was never revisited you can think what you like and fill in the blanks. Personally, no matter how much I love Full Alert I choose to believe that all the Goa'ulds and Trust operatives were captured and gotten rid of and the subplot is finished once and for all. For good this time. It'd been going on for too long already, IMO.

Too bad there isn't a single episode or film to support this fan speculation. No, the sub-plot was never resolved; it was simply dropped. One minute the trust are manipulating world governments and businesses and planting a bomb on Atlantis, and the next moment the writers conveniently drop the whole affair because they want to write other stories. As a writer, I can understand growing tired of a story you've been working on for a long time, but if you've invested several seasons of your franchise into this plot only to abruptly drop it, you're a lazy writer.

The Trust storyline wasn't completely dropped. In Season 10 Agent Barret talks about how the NID are still investigating the Trust and describes it as a "global conspiracy". In SGA episode Miller's Crossing which is from season 4 and therefore after SG1 is finished, The Trust were one of the top suspects in the kidnapping of McKay's sister and Agent Barret gives every indication that the NID are still investigating them.

I've always seen the Trust storyline as tangential to the main arc of the the shows. Since it involves mainly the NID trying to ferret out the conspiracy, it makes sense that the SGC or Atlantis Expedition would only be involved in the case of a major threat such as Full Alert or the bomb on Atlantis.
I started a thread in the SGU general discussion a while back about how I felt the Trust could easily be incorporated into an episode or 2 of SGU.

[Wayston]

I buy them as a major antagonist, it makes sense actually provided they have method of maintaining unity in their ranks. For example maybe they have formed a sort of nazi regime where there are many different factions with a common goal (e.g. something to do with the background radiation message) vying for power both internally and externally but due to the common goal the leaders of the factions are more civilized towards their collegues and their use of violence is mostly confined to the outside world

[ultimategurion]

I buy x because I can imagine it being that way does little to address the reality of sloppy writing. That's the problem with trying to attach a new show to an existing franchise and, being embarrassed about the majority of said franchise, reworking established cannon and passing it off in said new show as though things were this way the whole time.

I'm a fan of Universe. That doesn't mean I'm blind to how much of a glaring disconnect it is from the previous shows.

[D Toccs]

To be fair, not all of the Lucian Alliance were portrayed as incompetent in SG1. For example Anateo and his group managed to take control of the Odyssey and were planning to stage a coup. Anateo's group were at least as competent as Kiva's.
Also in-universe it has been 3 years now since we last saw the Lucian Alliance in SG1, during those 3 years we only got stories focusing on the Pegasus Galaxy and now Destiny.
So it's not really that the LA have suddenly been upgraded to a major threat, it's more a case of they've been given the 3 years of character development, but all we got to see were the "before" and "after". We did get given snippets of what has been happening in those 3 years though, for example Telford was under cover for a whole year, so Earth and the LA have obviously been involved in an escalating war of espionage and counter espionage.

[BloomGate]

I buy x because I can imagine it being that way does little to address the reality of sloppy writing. That's the problem with trying to attach a new show to an existing franchise and, being embarrassed about the majority of said franchise, reworking established cannon and passing it off in said new show as though things were this way the whole time.

I'm a fan of Universe. That doesn't mean I'm blind to how much of a glaring disconnect it is from the previous shows.

While some of what you say is true, I would characterize what you call "lazy writing" instead as "TV writing". Writing for Television is far different from writing for other mediums if only because leaving loose ends is considered "good" because it leaves options open for future stories.

So,for instance, in the example of The Trust, if they had closed that storyline down, they no longer have an antagonist on Earth. So in any possible scenario where the story requires some conflict on Earth (as has been pointed out in SG1 S10 and SGA S4) they would have to invent something new, or explain why something thought as finished came back. They simply saved themselves a bunch of screen time of a new story that would have required more setup.

So if it were a book series, I would agree that it would be lazy or sloppy writing from a structure standpoint. However, a TV series has budgetary and resource limitations that require a more open ended style. Someone writing a series of books can decide exactly how long the series will be. A writer of books doesn't have to worry whether one of their main characters will be available for the next book, or whether they might unexpectedly get pregnant. A writer of books can spend pages and pages explaining something new while a TV writer has limited time to tell their story and it takes less time to refer to a a previous plot device than it would to explain something from scratch.

So, while I see your point in some regards about the writing, you really can't expect tight writing that ties things up neatly all the time.

[blackluster]

I think the LA are quite viable as a threat given the development they have received so far.

I think what can unify the SG1 LA and the SGU version is the sheer scope of the LA. From the words of Varro and the characterization of Simeon and Kiva, it seems clear that the LA is much larger and dynamic than its name might suggest.

Currently, we don't really have an idea of the composition of the member states of the alliance or on what grounds and agreements each joined the alliance. Like the members of any major organization, I expect the member worlds or clans of the alliance to have varying technical and military ability.

It is clear from Varro's dialogue that members of the LA are not open with each other and can act independently of each other. While this would seem to indicate disorganization, the threat it poses to Earth is that there is no complete picture of the alliance's capabilities. You might bust some pirates bearing a Lucian Alliance tag one day, and then run up against a professional military force composed of Varros and Simeons the next day.

The size of the Lucian Alliance is what makes this possible and it is what makes Earth desperate for intelligence on them. Satellites look down on Earth everyday and can give you a general picture of who is doing what in which places. For the LA however, there are parts and resources within them that Earth has probably never even seen yet, and that is what makes them dangerous, and why their threat level in SGU is believable.

As to motive: during SG1, the presence of the Goa'uld would have restricted what the LA could do on a galactic level, so their activities would mainly revolve around grinding out a profit to buy weapons to protect their interests or to pay off whoever needed to look the other way.

What seems clear in SGU though, is that the LA is starting to gain technological ambitions. This might be to assert some lasting legitimate political influence in the galaxy, or it might stem from competition between Alliance members for dominance and influence within the Alliance.

Earth's policing and proactive security policy puts them on a collision course with the LA. If the LA have ambitions of being something more than a criminal group which I believe they do, then they must neutralize Earth's ability to get in their way.

[thekillman]

i participate in a fanfic project on this forum and i write for the LA. and what i understand of the LA is, that they are multiple independent factions which act together. factions which understand that they have to work together, factions that understand that internal fracturing is what kills you.

the LA can't be the same LA from SG1 because from SG1, they appear far too incompetent. my personal explanation is that the original Warlords have simply been replaced by better, more intelligent and more competent warlords.

[Nth Chevron]

I thought with Atlantis being on Earth now, and cloaked, that her 3.0 gate took presidence over our 2.0 MW model.

Thus i always assumed Atlantis took over as SGC, with it being research hub, a computer like DHD better than ours, better sensors, security and shields to contain many problems gate related, a living city space the size of Manhattan etc etc.

All it would need is a heavier contingent of equipment and guards in the gateroom and it already becomes better than the SGC. Minus operational costs and the fact it can act as a landing pad for 304's and it becomes the best logical choice to continue the SGC.

Not to mention it is NOT USAF property, the IOA has the lead, the international community is set up and so will simmer down the tensions between Russia and the US over Stargate procured tech, aswell as the eventual fallout when/if the Stargate program goes public.

Its as near to perfect as the involved authorities could hope for. Especially considering when/if the Stargate program DOES go public there will be the usual religious outcries, zealotism, most likely culminating in a terrorist attack.

I'd like to see a suicide anything try and get through Atlantis' shields when wven the Wraith couldnt

N.C

[Skiznot]

I don't agree that the LA are THE major antagonist. SGU does not have a single major antagonist. The LA are Antagonists, the blues, the drones and depending on your ultimate goal, Rush or Young might be antagonists. One of the reasons SGU is the superior show is that it's not so simplistic in terms of good guys and bad guys.

As for the major antagonist for Earth? I see no reason not to believe that Lucian Alliance wouldn't be threatened by and want to dominate the tech Earth has access to. The LA likely have a culture of mistrust and fear. No stretch at all that they would spend time going after the biggest threat.

[hedwig]

While this isn't a really clear explanation of the Lucian Alliance wanting to rid themselves of the Tauri, it was somewhat explained in SG1, "Company of Thieves", by Anateo, the guy that hijacked the Odyssey and her crew:

SOLEK (to Anateo): But why was it necessary to also bait a trap to capture SG-1?

ANATEO: Because everyone knows that they have caused us more grief than any other adversary, including the Ori. All the seconds, including me, have begged Netan to go after them, but he refused. He's a coward, choosing to run and hide rather than face the wrath of the Tau'ri.

SOLEK: Will we not?

ANATEO: We have brought their battleship to its knees, what are they going to do? After I present Odyssey and SG-1 to the others, Netan's stuffed corpse will be a trophy on my wall, and control of the Lucian Alliance will be mine.

Obviously, Anateo didn't get control of the Lucian Alliance, but I'm sure others felt as he did and are no doubt the ones that attacked earth.

[droid327]

OK well I did make one mistake in my OP, I got confused between SGC and HWS. But even then, you'd think HWS would be a high-priority target they'd want to defend.

Second, I dont think "Airman" Evans was the pilot. Wray speculated the plan was for him to land the cloaked ship, set the bomb on a timer, and then get out to a safe distance. The ship didnt land, it crashed - which obviously wasnt the "plan". We know the ship itself was destroyed when it crashed, because Wray/Greer didnt have to enter a ship to find the bomb, it was just sitting loose among the wreckage and rubble. I'd guess the pilot died in the crash, which is why I thought Evans was an infiltrator. If he was the pilot, even, since he knew he was already dead from radiation (and wouldnt be able to make it out to a safe distance in time, anyway), you'd think he would have actually wanted to find the bomb with Wray and Greer, so that he could set it off immediately, not prevent them from looking for it.

Third, I do completely buy the LA as a major criminal/underground/plutocratic organization filling the power void left by the Goa'uld in their part of the galaxy. What I dont buy is out-and-out attacks against Earth, who they know could clean their clocks in open warfare. Just like you dont see the Yakuza bombing the Diet (Congress) in Tokyo, and you dont see the mexican drug cartels bombing the headquarters of the Mexican Army. I'd buy the LA making raids and attacks on SGC bases offworld, or on allies of the SGC, but it seems wholly stupid to go straight for HWC and piss off the SG program so directly.

Seems like the smarter thing for the LA to do is just to try and keep the SGC out of their part of the galaxy, establish control, and then expand where they see opportunity. Not try to start a galactic war with the only major galactic military power left standing.

[garhkal]

Personally i think it is very logical that they are now being the main baddie.

[skooma]

The Lucian Alliance attacked Homeworld Command, not the SGC, which is still in Cheyenne Mountain until an actual episode of Stargate says otherwise. Why would the real life closing of NORAD mean the fictional moving of the SGC?

If anything that's a little better. No NORAD people wondering why people always moving in and out of the lower levels.