Protagonist Centered Morality

[morbosfist]

I wouldn't be to quick to disregard his theory.

Spoiler:

We don't fully understand what happens when someone dies using the stones.

Spoiler:

Both Ginn and Amanda Perry's minds end up inside Chloe next time she uses the stones.

Spoiler:

Yeah...

Spoiler:

Except they're pretty much ghosts and by all indications will be "dead" by episode's end. Either that or uploaded into Destiny's computer.

He was just trying to justify body theft on the spot. He knew it was flimsy.

[D Toccs]

Spoiler:

Yeah...

Spoiler:

Except they're pretty much ghosts and by all indications will be "dead" by episode's end. Either that or uploaded into Destiny's computer.

He was just trying to justify body theft on the spot. He knew it was flimsy.

Spoiler:

No, because they are both still present in Chloe as of the episode after next, Seizure.

Fact is, we have only seen death using the stones once, and the extremely fragile nature Amanda Perry's body could potentially be a factor in what happened.

[Wayston]

Spoiler:

No, because they are both still present in Chloe as of the episode after next, Seizure.

Fact is, we have only seen death using the stones once, and the extremely fragile nature Amanda Perry's body could potentially be a factor in what happened.

But it's not appropriate to test that very biased hypothesis (from the science dude) out in the field like that. He came across as the desparate guy trying to take a final lucky shot.

[D Toccs]

Fair points brought up by people. I am certainly not trying to say that Covel was right in what he did, all I am saying is that the entire situation was messed up and I feel that he was demonized a bit too much given what had happened. Certainly Rush has done just as bad and worse when he has been painted into a corner and I believe with all my heart that Rush would have done the exact same thing so especially seeing him taking the moral high ground annoyed me.

Imagine the situation was this : Scott and Chloe have stoned to Earth and then there is an accident on Destiny. The people in Scott and Chloe's bodies are the able to fix the problem, but doing so would be a death sentence.
I would expect to see ranting from Young about how you can't make those descions in someone else's body. If Scott and Chloe found out what was happening and got angry, they would not be seen as desperate cowards but as righteously pissed. The two people in the bodies would be the ones demonized because it would be main cast members who were threatened. Covel was demonized and Greer and Wray were heroes because Greer and Wray are main cast and Covel is a one shot character. That is the definition of protagonist centered morality.

[KEK]

I'm not sure what difference it makes. They couldn't escape, so it was a case of either staying where they were and being vaporised with thousands of other people, or disarming the bomb and limiting the fatalities to themselves, or should I say the bodies they were in.

[thekillman]

there is a certain dose at which point nothing can help you because of genetic damage. Wray doesn't know much of radiation but you don't need to be a scientists to see that the far end of a geiger counter means "bad" if not "lethal". why make a geiger counter capable of detecting radiation that would insta-kill a human?

they were dead before they knew it. Wray decided to make use of the situation in stead of sobbing. hell, even if they were beamed out, Wray would've opted to be sent back due to the radiation and the fact that they recieved the lethal dose several times over. plus that death from extreme exposure is always better than lethal exposure. death by radiation poisoning is hell.

[D Toccs]

Yes, but as I've said many times in this thread. I am not complaining about what Wray and Greer did. My issue is with the way Covel was portrayed as a jerkass coward when realistically any of us in his situation with the information he had would be more then a little pissed at the person who was in our body.
Does that give him the right to try and remain in Greers body? Probably not. But as they severed the connection and sent him back to die, to see Rush of all people looking at him with a look that says "Shame on you" when Rush himself has done far worse things, THAT annoys me.

[morbosfist]

Fair points brought up by people. I am certainly not trying to say that Covel was right in what he did, all I am saying is that the entire situation was messed up and I feel that he was demonized a bit too much given what had happened. Certainly Rush has done just as bad and worse when he has been painted into a corner and I believe with all my heart that Rush would have done the exact same thing so especially seeing him taking the moral high ground annoyed me.

Imagine the situation was this : Scott and Chloe have stoned to Earth and then there is an accident on Destiny. The people in Scott and Chloe's bodies are the able to fix the problem, but doing so would be a death sentence.
I would expect to see ranting from Young about how you can't make those descions in someone else's body. If Scott and Chloe found out what was happening and got angry, they would not be seen as desperate cowards but as righteously pissed. The two people in the bodies would be the ones demonized because it would be main cast members who were threatened. Covel was demonized and Greer and Wray were heroes because Greer and Wray are main cast and Covel is a one shot character. That is the definition of protagonist centered morality.

A flawed comparison. Wray and Greer had little choice but to end up risking their lives. There was no way out. They could only go back, and they could not have known about the situation. The only way your scenario would be fair is if Scott and Chloe's bodies were put in the same position.

[magictrick]

A flawed comparison. Wray and Greer had little choice but to end up risking their lives. There was no way out. They could only go back, and they could not have known about the situation. The only way your scenario would be fair is if Scott and Chloe's bodies were put in the same position.

Well we can just assume the scenario he mentioned is the same. They're locked in a room on Destiny exposed to radiation yet they fix the problem but are exposed to lethal amounts at the same time.

I agree. Most people in that situation would try to do something. I mean you pretty much had a glimpse of your death, knowing 100% that its coming and there is nothing you can do about it. That's pretty much as bad as it gets. You can't totally blame the guy for trying. I know its not right, but realistically, a lot of people would do the same thing.

I think in the Scott and Chloe scenario, Young would rant but ultimately see that there is no real choice. Two lives sacrificed in order to save everyone else on board the ship.

The more interesting scenario would be if those two people chose to sacrifice "themselves" knowingly But for the same reasons - to save everyone on board.

[NormaN]

Spoiler:

No, because they are both still present in Chloe as of the episode after next, Seizure.

Fact is, we have only seen death using the stones once, and the extremely fragile nature Amanda Perry's body could potentially be a factor in what happened.

Actually Vala died when the body she was inhabiting in Sallis's body.

[Rylor]

The situation was definitely complicated. Who is the owner of a body in a world where minds can be swapped? I doubt there is even a law covering that in the Stargate Universe, so legal issues aside, it seems wrong to steal someone elses body. Even more so if you consider the fact that they would all have died if Covel and Michaels would have stayed in their host bodies.

But the situation is a lot different if Covel's theory turned out to be right. I admit, it looked like the desperate idea of a dying man trying to save himself, but let's assume for a second he was correct. What then? Covel's and Michaels' bodies were irradiated through no fault of their own. Sending them back would be a death sentence. You could of course argue that the original owner of a body has "priority" in such a case, but considering the fact that no such law exists it seems like an arbitrary choice for whoever has his hands on the off-switch.

Needless to say, it's a very complicated issue and I am not sure what would be the "right" thing to do in this case.

[blackluster]

Well, if the issue is demonizing someone for a perfectly human reaction, then fair point. Just bear in mind though, characters getting on their high horse because someone they knew more personally is threatened is a very human reaction as well. Considering that, I wouldn't really lambast the situation for being an example of protagonist centered morality, I'd rather look at it as getting the wider range of understandable human reactions.

[Perelandra]

Covel's anger and panic and desire not to return to his body is an understandable and even very human reaction, however, by sabotaging the stones and staying in Greer's body he would have subjected Greer, on the other side, to an agonizing death by radiation poisoning in (Covel's) body. I don't think he had the right to make that decision without Greer's consent.
I assume that by "stoning" over to the Destiny in the first place they(Covel and Michaels) have to realize they are taking a big risk in the first place.
My understanding was that Wray and Greer already realized the(bodies they were in) had been exposed to lethal radiation and couldn't get out so the only thing left to do was go back and try to diffuse the bomb to prevent many more deaths.

[thekillman]

survival isn't a choice, it's genetic. people do not want to die. it's natural

[Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble]

there is a certain dose at which point nothing can help you because of genetic damage. Wray doesn't know much of radiation but you don't need to be a scientists to see that the far end of a geiger counter means "bad" if not "lethal". why make a geiger counter capable of detecting radiation that would insta-kill a human?

they were dead before they knew it. Wray decided to make use of the situation in stead of sobbing. hell, even if they were beamed out, Wray would've opted to be sent back due to the radiation and the fact that they recieved the lethal dose several times over. plus that death from extreme exposure is always better than lethal exposure. death by radiation poisoning is hell.

Correct me if I'm wrong but even at those high levels of radiation the shorter the you are exposed the better your chances are. However because of the bomb I think Wray made the right decision. I did feel for them characters after Wray found out before they themselves found out as they had recieved a death sentence and didn't even know .