Shouldnt Eli know better?

[droid327]

They spend so much time trying to get us to believe that Eli is way smarter than he acts...which is why I thought it was so weird that he got so worked up about him killing all the people in the other timeline.

SG follows a multiverse paradigm where every possibility exists simultaneously - the continued paradoxical presence of second-Rush after he altered the timeline would de facto preclude a "single ribbon" timeline model - so if he thought about it, he'd "killed" everyone countless times already, every time there had ever been a possibility of it happening. Theres also countless numbers of timelines where some small difference meant the wormhole never destabilized and everyone made it home safely.

Really, the second Rush's timeline only represented the possibility that Eli killed everyone, and people like Eli and Rush should definitely understand the difference....

[blueray]

its human nature to get upset when you think you (or a form of you) killed your friends.

but yeah, from alt-rush's story there is no solid evidence to prove that everyone died. since both he and telford were sent back 12 hours, its possible the rest of the crew just simply ended up somewhere else in time.

[KEK]

I think rush touches on it in the episode, Eli's maths is brilliant, but he's not an astrophysicist.

[Tanith0709]

They spend so much time trying to get us to believe that Eli is way smarter than he acts...which is why I thought it was so weird that he got so worked up about him killing all the people in the other timeline.

Mostly because he knows that if the flook accident that sent the alternate Destiny back in time never happened, he would be directly responsible for all there deaths. Seeing the other Destiny and hearing the alternate Rush tell the tale of what happened makes him feel responsible in some way.

[droid327]

Mostly because he knows that if the flook accident that sent the alternate Destiny back in time never happened, he would be directly responsible for all there deaths. Seeing the other Destiny and hearing the alternate Rush tell the tale of what happened makes him feel responsible in some way.

The key word there is "if"

There's an infinite number of "ifs". IF Eli had messed up his calculations, Greer and Scott might still be floating through space when they jumped from the rotating derelict (if I'm remembering that ep right). But he doesnt get worked up that he "killed" them. This is just one "if" that came out and jumped at him, but its no more real or not real than any other possible timeline.

Eli's a scifi nerd, he should realize this

Plus, at the risk of sounding too fatalistic, Rush DID come back to stop him. The sequence of events that led to the death of the crew also led to the prevention of that death, you cant separate the two

[garhkal]

True, but i know many who would have been the same way as Eli learning i almost killed everyone else.

[greenguywithlasereye]

i was pretty surprised the discussion of solar flares never even got brought up, except by dr rush. Still a v. well made SG episode.

Eli, *and* the people at HWC on earth, senior officers on destiny etc, must really really wanna go home big time, otherwise they wouldn't just gloss over the possibility of solar flares. especially like on 'time' or, the time before that -OR, the time before that - but you cant judge solar flares based on a few bad immense pressures....couldnt resist.

Another possibility is, as on praxyon's ancient solar observation outpost, others like it still exist that are yet to be discovered....[idea there?] - other side note, when were they made? destiny timeline or later?

again, great episode.

[D Toccs]

They spend so much time trying to get us to believe that Eli is way smarter than he acts...which is why I thought it was so weird that he got so worked up about him killing all the people in the other timeline.

SG follows a multiverse paradigm where every possibility exists simultaneously - the continued paradoxical presence of second-Rush after he altered the timeline would de facto preclude a "single ribbon" timeline model - so if he thought about it, he'd "killed" everyone countless times already, every time there had ever been a possibility of it happening. Theres also countless numbers of timelines where some small difference meant the wormhole never destabilized and everyone made it home safely.

Really, the second Rush's timeline only represented the possibility that Eli killed everyone, and people like Eli and Rush should definitely understand the difference....

There is a difference in SG between an Alternate Universe which exists simultaneously with ours and an Alternate Timeline which is our universe only slightly different.
In SG each universe has only 1 timeline, but that timeline is a fluid construct which can be reshaped and changed by time travelers. Within the main SG universe we have already had several iterations of the timeline, each replacing the previous one not existing side by side.

The original iteration of SG1 died in Ancient Egypt.
The 2nd iteration of O'Niell, Teal'c and Carter also died in Ancient Egypt.
The original iteration of Wier died of old age after being in stasis for 10,000 years.
The original iteration of Mitchell died of old age at some point probably in the 1960's after meeting his grandfather in the 1930's.
The original and second iterations of the Destiny crew died in the episode Time.
And the Third iteration of the Destiny Crew died in the unstable wormhole while dialing the sun.

So the presence of the 12 hour ahead Rush on Destiny does not represent the possibility of Eli's plan killing the crew. It represents the fact the Eli's plan did kill the crew, and only through a 1 in a million fluke was that avoided. That would be enough to rattle anybody I would think.

[JoseP927]

Keep in mind too that we don't know for sure what happened to the rest of the people that went through the wormhole; we only know that they did not end up in the same place or (most likely) time that Telford arrived. I am guessing one of 3 possibilities happened:

1) Destiny was in motion the entire time the gate was open. This probably changes the variables associated with solar flare travel so each person arrived, but scattered throughout different times in the past or future.

2) While the gate was open, its likely that energy fluctuations caused the wormhole to jump to another gate nearby Earth. The sun, after-all, is a huge energy source.

3) Telford said to follow in 3 second intervals, but instead we see the whole mob cram into the stargate and that probably clogged up the wormhole.

Except for #3, there is a chance they are alive somewhere or sometime.

[garhkal]

Well, we know ships can go through it (jumpers, that gou'ald craft) so that meses up @3 as it won't get clogged.
#2 has only happened when things impact the GATE itself. See matter of time (used a big explosion to cause it to jump) and Solitudes (again a big explosion at the gate caused it to jump)..

[JoseP927]

Well, we know ships can go through it (jumpers, that gou'ald craft) so that meses up @3 as it won't get clogged.
#2 has only happened when things impact the GATE itself. See matter of time (used a big explosion to cause it to jump) and Solitudes (again a big explosion at the gate caused it to jump)..

#2 happens when an energy pulse impacts the gate; that could come from a physical object that also impacts the gate, an energy discharge that is focused into the gate (A Matter of Time), and possibly high energy surges in Destiny's power system during recharge. Remember what happened when they tried that in Season 1

[blazingfire]

The original iteration of SG1 died in Ancient Egypt.

Actually, the original SG team all died in 2010 except for Janet and Teal'c. But they changed their timeline so that didn't happen.

[D Toccs]

Actually, the original SG team all died in 2010 except for Janet and Teal'c. But they changed their timeline so that didn't happen.

Indeed you are correct. I forgot to include 2010 and The Last Man (the future episodes) in my counts.

[garhkal]

So... are we on the proper timeline part 4, or 5.??

[D Toccs]

So... are we on the proper timeline part 4, or 5.??

We are currently on the 11th iteration of the timeline. Assuming that there will be no more time travel episodes in the remaining 7 episodes, then the 11th iteration is the final verison and the one we've been watching since back in 1996.

Timleine #1 = Events of SG1 seasons 1-4. Earth makes alliance with the Aschen. The Aschen defeat the Goa'uld, begin sterilizing Earth. In 2010 O'Niell sends a message back in time to prevent contact with the Aschen.
Timeline #2 = Events of SG1 seasons 1-7. Atlanist Expedition arrive in Pegasus, Atlantis' shields fail, the city is destroyed. Weir travels back in time.
Timeline #3 = Events of SG1 seasons 1-8, SGA season 1. SG1 travel back to Ancient Egypt to steal a ZPM. They get stranded there and incite the rebellon against RA. Ra leaves Earth taking the stargate with him.
Timeline #4 = Stargate Program never existed. Government eventually finds SG1's tape from Ancient Egypt and uncover the second gate. Mission to Chulak, O'Niell, Carter and Teal'c travel to Ancient Egypt and meet Daniel Jackson from timeline #3. The incite the rebellion and succeed, Ra leaves Earth without taking the gate.
Timeline #5 = Events of SG1 seasons 1-10, AoT, SGA seasons 1-4. Sheppard gets sent 49,000 years into the future. Michael conquers the Pegasus Galaxy, Earth abandons Atlantis. McKay creates his hologram to get Sheppard back from the future. McKay's plan works, Sheppard is sent back in time.
Timeline #6 = Events of SG1 seasons 1-10, AoT, SGA seaons 1-4. Baal travels back in time and sinks the Achilles and stargate in the 1930's.
Timeline #7 = Stargate Program never existed. Baal conquers the Milky Way Galaxy. Mitchell, Carter and Jackson from timeline #6 get shifted into this timeline. They access Baal's time machine and Mitchell travels back in time and kills Baal saving the Achilles.
Timeline #8 = Events of SG1 seasons 1-10, AoT, Contiuum, SGA seasons 1-5, SGU season 1.0. The Destiny crew become stranded on the planet due to unstable wormhole. The crew get killed by the Squigglers, Rush and a Kino with the recorded events go through the unstable wormhole and are sent back in time.
Timeline #9 = Events of SG1 seasons 1-10, AoT, Contiuum, SGA seasons 1-5, SGU season 1.0. The Destiny crew find the Kino and watch the recording. The crew begins dying from the parasite in the water supply. A team is sent to the planet and are killed by the Squigglers. Scott records instructions on a Kino and sends it through the unstable wormhole and back in time.
Timeline #10 = Events of SG1 seasons 1-10, AoT, Contiuum, SGA seasons 1-5, SGU seasons 1-2.0. The Destiny crew enact a plan to dial Earth while inside a star. A solar flare cause the wormhole to become unstable and the Ship along with Telford and Rush are sent back in time by 12 hours.
Timeline #11 = Events of SG1 seasons 1-10, AoT, Contiuum, SGA seasons 1-5, SGU seasons 1-2.

The only time travel that does not create a new timeline are the events of 1969 which exist as a stable time loop in which the past is not changed, since Hammond already remembered it, and SG1 made a deliberate attempt to not change anything.