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Thread: Tin Man (118)

  1. #41
    Staff Sergeant hermajesty's Avatar
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    Unhappy Re: Tin Man (118)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dani347
    I found this episode very disturbing and sad. I can barely watch it. First, to hear Robot!Jack realise that they could never go back. To know that no matter what might have happened to his counterpart, Robot!Daniel had no hope of ever reuniting with Sha're. Robot!Teal'c would never see his family. Robot!Sam would never see Jacob. And, the worst thing was, they knew what they were missing. It was just too painful to watch.
    I agree - i hated this episode. It was so bleak and disturbing. At first i wondered how harlan's "friends" could commit suicide, but by the end i thought that i might do the same in their position. There was no warm fuzzy glow at the end when they got safely home, because they never ever can. And whilst i like episodes that make you think, the thoughts from this one are just horrible.
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  2. #42
    Second Lieutenant PugGate's Avatar
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    Post Re: Tin Man (118)

    I think episode goes under the "Disturbing and depressing" category. It sucks that they can never go back to their old lives and they are stuck in that factory because they are powered by batteries. The infimary scene with Jack cutting open his arm was extremely disturbing.
    Hitler, Stalin, and Mussolini => three of the world's worst dictators.

    Also failed artist, failed priest, and failed grade-school teacher.

    What we should learn: Don't trust artists, be wary of priests, and fear your teachers!

  3. #43
    Second Lieutenant ApophisOfTheStargateRealm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tin Man (118)

    i did not like this episode at all...it was kind of depressing and i hated it when jack started cutting his skin to see if he was a machine... harlan seemed to be a little hoping toad that would not shut aswell...

    i dont know. it just seemed off
    "A general is only as good as the people he commands."

  4. #44
    Second Lieutenant QuiGonJohn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tin Man (118)

    I have a few items about this episode:

    1. I read the entire thread and never got an answer to this from Leanna's early post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Leanna
    Did anyone else catch the little "possible" flaw in the "Tin Man" episode? It was something the "real" Jack said towards the end.

    2. I read the Dan Shea was the O'Niell Alternate. Does that mean he was O'Niell for all of the shots where O'Neill was RobotJack?

    3. I thought they missed a chance to add a couple humrous lines in one scene. When Hammond comes into the room where the synthetics are being held, and Daniel explains what Harlan did and why, Daniel ends with saying Harlan thought it would be 'better'. I would have Hammond grufly respond, "Better, How?", and then have Jack respond with "That's what I kept asking him".

  5. #45
    Chief Master Sergeant OrangeShipper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tin Man (118)

    In answer to your second point -

    I think the only time Dan Shea was the double was in the last scene by the gate. The camera angle is just behind Jacks head (this is Dan) and you see the other Jack talking to them from the front. The "back of Jacks head" is all Dan is, as far as Im aware. There may be other times though, but he's certainly not "Jack" all the way through!

    Point 3 wouldve been great!! Im one of the few ppl who seems to like this ep (I love it!!) so yeah thats a great idea.

    As for your first point.. Ive no idea!! Im intrigued now!!
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  6. #46
    Second Lieutenant QuiGonJohn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tin Man (118)

    It sounded like Chris Judge was the voice of the alarm warning in the station, but I can't confirm that anywhere, not here or on IMDB. Anyone know for sure?

  7. #47
    Second Lieutenant PugGate's Avatar
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    Zat Re: Tin Man (118)

    They should've just put Harlan out of his misery. He was totally wacked
    Hitler, Stalin, and Mussolini => three of the world's worst dictators.

    Also failed artist, failed priest, and failed grade-school teacher.

    What we should learn: Don't trust artists, be wary of priests, and fear your teachers!

  8. #48
    Chief Master Sergeant
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    Wink Re: Tin Man (118)

    I thought Tin Man was another great, under appreciated episode. This episode could be viewed several ways. One, it was a quirky twist on the classic story of Pygmalion, where the King of Cyprus, carves and then falls in love with the statue of a woman, his perfect woman, and the Goddess of Love, Aphrodite, brings her to life. In our story, Harlan brings the SG-1 team "to life", he makes them "better", perfect, in his eyes, and in his own way, he loves them. He is Pygmalion. Unfortunately, as is usually the case, not all love stories have a happy ending, as this one definitely doesn't. When the deception is revealed to Jack and the rest of the team, the only one who really has a problem with it, is Jack, both of them. The "better" Jack views it as a cruel joke and most definitely blames Harlan. He is bitter and frustrated, and vents his emotions on the perfect person, the person he is, the 'real" Jack.

    I thought it was a great episode, because it explored some of the inner feelings of Jack, the troubling idea of being immortal, with no place to go, the thought of endless days, doing the same thing. And all the time knowing, you are someone else and belong somewhere else. At the end, when the "real" Jack tells them to bury the Gate, I think we all knew the Gate wouldn't be buried and we would one day meet the "better" SG-1 team again.

    OK, I'm beginning to feel like I'm writing a treatise. Sorry, sometimes I get carrried away.

    Of course, you could view it as a trip to Oz, with Jack as the scarecrow, looking for a brain, Daniel, the cowardly lion, looking for some courage.....naw, on second thought, both Teal'c and Sam already have a heart, only Teal'C was looking for a way home, to freedom.

    I'm finished. Aren't you happy?

  9. #49
    Second Lieutenant ApophisOfTheStargateRealm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tin Man (118)

    Quote Originally Posted by PugGate
    They should've just put Harlan out of his misery. He was totally wacked
    lol i 2nd that
    "A general is only as good as the people he commands."

  10. #50
    Second Lieutenant zats's Avatar
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    Zat Re: Tin Man (118)

    Quote Originally Posted by Believer
    I thought Tin Man was another great, under appreciated episode. This episode could be viewed several ways. One, it was a quirky twist on the classic story of Pygmalion, where the King of Cyprus, carves and then falls in love with the statue of a woman, his perfect woman, and the Goddess of Love, Aphrodite, brings her to life. In our story, Harlan brings the SG-1 team "to life", he makes them "better", perfect, in his eyes, and in his own way, he loves them. He is Pygmalion. Unfortunately, as is usually the case, not all love stories have a happy ending, as this one definitely doesn't. When the deception is revealed to Jack and the rest of the team, the only one who really has a problem with it, is Jack, both of them. The "better" Jack views it as a cruel joke and most definitely blames Harlan. He is bitter and frustrated, and vents his emotions on the perfect person, the person he is, the 'real" Jack.
    Interesting point. What I don't think the myth ever explained (at least not in the version I read) was if Galatea was happy having been brought to life. I remember hearing somewhere that it'd be somewhat disturbing to be deliberately created as perfect, and this episode answered that question nicely: very disturbing. Would you want to be perfect?

    Incidentally, 'disturbing' is an adjective that seems to come up a lot in relation to this ep. It has some heavy implications in various sciences, as well: robotics, AI, and genetic engineering, to name a few.

    I'm finished. Aren't you happy?
    Terribly.

  11. #51
    Lwaxana Troi
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    Chevron Re: Tin Man (118)

    Quote Originally Posted by zats
    Interesting point. What I don't think the myth ever explained (at least not in the version I read) was if Galatea was happy having been brought to life. I remember hearing somewhere that it'd be somewhat disturbing to be deliberately created as perfect, and this episode answered that question nicely: very disturbing. Would you want to be perfect?

    Incidentally, 'disturbing' is an adjective that seems to come up a lot in relation to this ep. It has some heavy implications in various sciences, as well: robotics, AI, and genetic engineering, to name a few.

    Terribly.
    From what I can recall about Pygmalion and his creation, Galatea was not happy. It was a doomed relationship, for the very reason you pointed out. Perfection, as an abstract ideal is beautiful, but as a reality, it leaves you with nothing to strive for, it leaves you empty, as Galatea was.

    As for whether I would want to be perfect? In the abstract, wouldn't we all, but in reality, never. But I have nothing to fear, as my chances of achieving perfection are slim to nil.

    I too believe Tinman was an under appreciated episode. It did bring up many other issues, if not directly, then by association, in particular, those you named. My primary emotion at the end of the episode was one of profound saddness.

  12. #52
    Second Lieutenant zats's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tin Man (118)

    The 'nothing to strive for' business would explain why
    Spoiler:
    in 'Double Jeopardy' we discovered that the droids had been off galivanting. With nothing to work for, the only options would be to sit and twiddle your thumbs for eternity.

  13. #53
    First Lieutenant Heru'urs_first_prime's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tin Man (118)

    Quote Originally Posted by zats
    The 'nothing to strive for' business would explain why
    Spoiler:
    in 'Double Jeopardy' we discovered that the droids had been off galivanting. With nothing to work for, the only options would be to sit and twiddle your thumbs for eternity.
    exactly
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  14. #54

    Default Re: Tin Man (118)

    Whoo great episode where would we be without Harlen!

  15. #55
    John Diggle DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tin Man (118)

    Quote Originally Posted by Elite Anubis Guard
    this episode really bored me. I found the whole thing annoying and tiring.
    YES
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  16. #56
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    Default Re: Tin Man (118)

    Quote Originally Posted by Atteria
    I too believe Tinman was an under appreciated episode. It did bring up many other issues, if not directly, then by association, in particular, those you named. My primary emotion at the end of the episode was one of profound saddness.
    I'm reminded of an excellent STS9 episode called "Whispers" where Chief O'Brien is cloned. The episode is narrated by "O'Brien" who doesn't discover that he is actually a replicant programmed for an assassination mission until the real O'Brien shows up at the end of the show.

    "Tin Man" was an insightful look at what it means to be human and the dilution of identity that can result from new technology and medicine. It's this kind of thoughtfulness that I've really missed over the years as Stargate has become less about ideas and more about explosions and one-liners. The moral dilemmas raised here and in other early episodes like "Holiday" and "Serpent's Song" may be "depressing" but the strength of Stargate is in the life-affirming moments that accompany even the most disturbing situations. Alas, we've been starved of "depressing" episodes for far too many years.
    "There is simply no other choice than this: either to abstain from interference in the free play of the market, or to delegate the entire management of production and distribution to the government. Either capitalism or socialism: there exists no middle way."
    -Ludwig von Mises

  17. #57
    Major Metarock Sam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tin Man (118)

    Tin Man is one of those slightly tear jerking episodes which makes it quite a good one ( although the sequel is without a doubt 1000000 times better).
    This also had the message that nobodys perfect and perfection comes at a cost basically one of those eps that just plainly sets moral standards. BTW it was funny when the 2 Carters met and Harlan Rules!!!!
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  18. #58
    Second Lieutenant
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    Default Re: Tin Man (118)

    I loved the SFX and emotion when Jack cut his arm and it was all robotic

  19. #59
    Lieutenant Colonel AGateFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tin Man (118)

    COMTRIA!!!!!!

    I love this ep.

    "It is .... better".
    I am sure Carter and Daniel could live happiley exploring that planet, assuming there is more then we see there but O'Neill and Teal'c would be bored out of their minds. Too bad the others died I think they could have been a great resource to some fancy tech.
    Joseph Mallozzi -"In the meantime, I'm into season 5 of OZ (where the show takes an unfortunate hairpin turn into "the not so wonderful world of fantasy")"

    ^^^ Kinda sounds like seasons 9 and 10 of SG-1 to me. Thor, ya got Aspirin?

    AGateFan has officially Gone Fishin (with Jack, Sam, Daniel, Teal'c) and is hoping Atlantis does not take that same hairpin turn.

  20. #60
    Lieutenant General Pharaoh Atem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tin Man (118)

    i would freak out if i cut my arm like jack did and found out i wasn't human ..yikes

    overall good epsiode liked the idea of teal'c not being himself. good wayt to mix that in with the whole robot thing

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