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  1. #30221
    Second Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Political Discussion Thread

    I didn't want the thread to derail on comparing personal deeds that wasn't the point

  2. #30222
    Brigadier General aretood2's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Political Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
    That's the problem with statistics in general. They can be twisted to support any point of view you want them to.
    The problem in this case isn't statistics. There's a reason why news articles keep identifying a new food or beverage that either causes or cures cancer. It's because science is a compilation of studies repeated and done with variation to point to general trends. The news only see one study that indicates a possible relationship and all of a sudden "Scientists discover that olives cause cancer!". Statistics works in much the same way.

    Various organizations and economists have run studies about immigration and welfare and the economy in general. The general trend is that immigrants aren't a drain on welfare, they aren't a drain on the economy. There is a debate, however, as to who exactly benefits the most from immigrants.

    It's groups being dishonest and making assertions that don't pan out to be true. You want to believe that CIS is honest in everything but the fact is that they cared so much about making their point that they went ahead to use the most unreliable methods that they knew would yield numbers that would tickle the feathers of any anti-immigrant.

  3. #30223
    Brigadier General aretood2's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Political Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    I didn't want the thread to derail on comparing personal deeds that wasn't the point
    There's a general rule that when talking history or politics one never says "you" or "we". For those who are speaking about it are supposed to act as if they are detached observers. Saying "you" is what brought this derailment about. Maybe next time just say "The US".

  4. #30224
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Political Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    The problem in this case isn't statistics. There's a reason why news articles keep identifying a new food or beverage that either causes or cures cancer. It's because science is a compilation of studies repeated and done with variation to point to general trends. The news only see one study that indicates a possible relationship and all of a sudden "Scientists discover that olives cause cancer!". Statistics works in much the same way.
    And it doesn't matter who paid for the study, right? A business group, the "Beef Board" I think they're called has published studies saying that red meat is one of the best things for you. Same with other business alliances financing studies on the products they make.
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
    - Starship Voyager's Holographic Doctor
    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
    - Former Borg Seven of Nine

  5. #30225
    Lieutenant Colonel Gatefan1976's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Political Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
    And it doesn't matter who paid for the study, right? A business group, the "Beef Board" I think they're called has published studies saying that red meat is one of the best things for you. Same with other business alliances financing studies on the products they make.
    do you care that the heritage foundation and other right wing "vested interest" groups put forward all policies you somehow happen to agree with?
    ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
    A lie is just a truth that hasn't gone through conversion therapy yet
    The truth isn't the truth

  6. #30226
    First Lieutenant
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    Default Re: The Political Discussion Thread

    Not exactly sure what to quote thru all of this muck...

    Quote Originally Posted by SGalisa View Post
    *sigh*



    If *that* is part of the same wall / fence picture I saw earlier, there were a bunch of hispanic looking guys climbing it to the top and posing for pictures on it. So, any fencing that is capable of being climbed, scaled, or harpooned upon (with rope) is NOT going to stop any amount of "invading" trespassers from reaching the other side.

    If TPTB plan on shooting down any humans attempting to cross those border lines, it wouldn't be long before the "human rights" activists start screaming about bringing harm to "potentially innocent people".

    Then, there is also some dumb rumor claiming that highway dividers will be used as a temporary last resort to stop mobile objects from penetrating past. Same type of (low-sized) highway dividers that people jump over to get the other side. THAT will NOT stop hordes of people from passing over... duh!

    The whole situation is like watching Pandora's Box being opened. "TSHTF" scenarios. Once it's opened with the floodgates non-existent or gone, well, such situations usually don't end very well. They certainly don't start out very well (or safe) either..! If some of TPTB think this *Pandora's Box* of incoming masses of people/caravans is going to help their PTB situation, hahaha... keep dreaming. Voting isn't going to stop this, and neither will rhetoric of words. Communication and CO-operation might help, but with a "slim to none" chance of having a positive outcome for those already in the USA as well as for those persons heading on into our USA way. *Be careful what you wish for*... it might not end into what you expected... and that is for ALL sides involved.

    The current migrating group that is passing thru Mexico plans on stopping in Mexico City to publicly rant about how they are refusing the generosity of Mexico to stay for asylum. Thousands of migrants have already disagreed to the offers Mexico has made as an alternative to going further to the USA.

    Also, there is apparently a 4th group of (more thousands of) migrants coming from El Salvador now.

    Realistically, there are just too many people to handle all at the same time to find shelter, food, and potential jobs. This is NOT a sustainable situation. I've seen a bunch of suggestions for rebuilding empty malls into housing projects with built-in communities also inside these places for food courts, clothing, and other material product needs, as well as potential day-care and/or educational centers all on the same piece of property. It sounds like an amazing dream plan, but who will pay for it? And it would never be up and operational in time for the amount of people heading into the USA -- illegally (not applying for green card / citizenship).
    . . .

    Spreading a forced *Socialism* sort of life doesn't work. When there are no finances to support those who NEED it, everyone suffers. Apparently, that message still hasn't sunk into the brainless minds of the MSM and those in control who keep telling the world, that it will work. Mass caravan crossings are NOT the way to get current event situations to work. If this whole situation of the southern caravans coming to enter the USA is just a *mad* PTB experiment, it is doomed to fail in its current state / status.

    Once the masses of people claiming they want to go to America for a better life, once they cross our USA borders and find it's not so easy to get that, they'd better NOT complain about their conditions, because Mexico DID offer them asylum with benefits! But NOoooooo, these people insisted on complaining (some got violent, according to some reports), and continued heading on up to USA's *land of the distressed oppressed* direction.

    When the first pilgrims got overtaken by the European and other continental commonfolk, and the Statue of Liberty eventually became the beacon of hope -- "give US your poor, your tired, your oppressed..." blah, blah, blah. It always seemed like a nice *dream*. ...Native Americans already here are going to lose what little they have left, too.


    IF EVERYONE on the American land-mass side of the planet --North, Central and South Americas along with Mexico could put aside their differences and hostilities, WE, as a united AMERICAN portion of the earth could do wonders with ALL of the lands, fields, crops, and various *industries* that have been blessed thruout our side of the world. There are many talented people here, but those talents have been and are stifled by TPTB who have smothered their own countries into an oblivion nightmare. It needs to STOP. No one is going to go anywhere or get ahead by current discord methods.
    . . .
    Yeah, now, about that border fence... seems it's NOT working.
    For one thing, the DEMs and RINO Repubs kept stalling and stalling and stalling so that NO new fences would go up. So, Trump had to work around that issue for the entire past 2 years. Load of good that did, too. In places where a border fence does exist... well, this must be related to the original pictures I saw as noted in my previous post above.

    Article below has a similar fence with actual images and videos of people climbing up and over the stupid fence...
    Sort of like having an attitude also of "in your face, USA!!" They proved they could climb over and then proceeded to weigh in on how far across the sand they'd go beyond / past the the border patrol waiting on sand buggies and horseback.

    "Video shows migrants climbing US-Mexico border fence"
    By Associated Press
    Posted: Nov 14, 2018 01:08 PM EST
    Updated: Nov 14, 2018 01:10 PM EST
    (NBC affiliate News Channel 8)


    Splintered migrant caravan groups arrive at US border

    SAN DIEGO, Calif. (AP) - Some migrants in a caravan of Central Americans have made long leaps forward in their journey to the U.S. border, with a first sizable group arriving in the border city of Tijuana, while others on Wednesday were left stranded far behind.

    Authorities were struggling to deal with the group of 357 migrants who arrived in Tijuana aboard nine buses Tuesday and immediately went to a stretch of border fence to celebrate.

    A couple of dozen migrants scaled the steel border fence to celebrate their arrival, chanting "Yes, we could!" and one man dropped over to the U.S. side briefly as border agents watched from a distance. He ran quickly back to the fence.
    . . .
    About 1,300 migrants in a second caravan were resting at a stadium in Mexico City, where the first group had stayed last week.

    The Rev. Miguel Angel Soto, director of the Casa de Migrante — House of the Migrant — in the Sinaloa capital of Culiacan, said about 2,000 migrants had arrived in that area. He said the state government, the Roman Catholic Church and Escuinapa officials were helping the migrants.

    The priest also said the church had been able to get "good people" to provide buses for moving migrants northward. He said so far 24 buses had left Escuinapa on an eight-drive to Navojoa in Sonora state.
    . . .

    Cheering crowds on Mexican side were egging the ones on the fence to dare the patrols into further action.

    So... there is where there already was an existing Fence. Fence didn't keep people out or off of it, as some people climbed up and over. Duh!!!

    Plus, 24 buses were providing transport for one group. So, not everyone is on foot, as has been noted here. OOOOOOooooo...and the *liberal/anything goes* NBC provided that info, too..!

  7. #30227
    First Lieutenant
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    Default Re: The Political Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    I can agree that illegal immigrants are not wanted by any countries, obviously, they're illegal for a reason. The Geneva convention is imo, the best compromise and btw by no means does that translate into accepting wave of millions of refugees. The US actually signed the '67 convention, but Congress blocked it so it is not in effect in the US as I'm sure you are well aware already.

    Also any refugee that succeeds in settling foot on Canadian land is considered a refugee, but by no means again does that mean that he/she will stay there. If no valid reason is given backed with official paperwork, away they go. But usually if you go through all the trouble of crossing the ocean and leaving your family behind that's because you got a damn good reason to go wouldn't you agree?

    Remember a few months back when a bunch of immigrants left the US to go to Canada? In my province alone I think we got about 400 ''american refugees'' (I still find that term laughable to this day). Well about 90% of them are now being extradited / returned, or will be in the months to come. Why? Because they're not refugees. Thanks come again (and sorry).

    What I think is wrong in all that saga is REMOVING rights from people that are already there. What if I told you out of the blue that you're going to be banned from your own country, where you were born, how would you like that? You've never known your country of origin but you got to go back there because you don't belong here.

    Does that make any sense to you? What exactly is an American but someone that was born in the US or immigrated legally? But, the most aberrant thing in all this fake crisis, I say fake because it is an invention from the right to score electoral points, is that the anti-immigration stance has become a racist and xenophobic one retweeted by your own POTUS, and this you cannot deny. If you see your boss smoking a cigar at work, well you probably think you can too. I am telling you we should expect more shootings like Pittsburgh, because your POTUS is fueling the hate train towards immigrants.
    Don't forget the constant gang violence in Chicago, Illinois.

    Quote Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
    ...Here's an idea. How about Canada step up and provide free food, housing and whatever else the people of that country need?...
    For one thing, it's too cold to live in Canada in the winter weather. Smart folks stay in warmer climates.
    Problem with providing food, clothing, shelter and etc., from our USA side is that those (in the Middle Class) who consistently give to food banks can only give out so much. Many people in the lower to middle-middle class who have supported food banks, animal shelters, clothing drives, and food pantries, live on limited incomes. Upper middle class can afford to parcel out more of their money to these needy places. But there aren't that many % in the upper middle-middle level. Elites only give to their favorite charities, and some apparently give to protesting and union purposes or causes.

    So, for those who are already trying to save an extra ten dollars into their bank accounts per week, can't stretch it much thinner. They've got their *own* extended families with financial needs to help out, plus something called retirement...? Well, seems like that thing called "retirement" won't come for those being stretched even further. The incoming politicians will see to that...and tax everyone to death. How else do they and their supportive voters think these newcomers (illegals) will be able to get all those freebies... plus, there are our own USA folks in the poverty level classes expecting free handouts, too.

    BTW, with all of the job layoffs (in a majority Democrat/RINO controlled state), I've lived years with less than five to ten USA dollars left to buy gas or food... which choice would I take... food lost to gas? -- especially if I couldn't split it and *if* driving was going to be an issue (walking or riding one's bike is NOT an option either for long distance employment... and neither is mass transit that doesn't operate on certain shift schedules and/or locations)! Moving is NOT an option... as money is needed in order to move! Been trying to explain this to certain family members who think money grows on trees (it might come from trees, but it's not like hanging fruit ON the trees either!).

    And don't forget California... bad enough they've got disasters-a-plenty out there, but with the super wealthy Democrats who just lost their homes in the fire, will they stay or move out of state... some people believed long ago that there would be some crazy excuse for them to move eastward and "invade" the rest of the USA's lower 47 other states. Add the complications from these horrible fires into the equation, and oooooh... how does that help the "invading" immigrants hopping over the fences for a *supposedly* better life...? Rebuild the now burned out areas? What about shelters that are maxed out with the people seeking help from the fires that destroyed their former homes? Who goes where, and at what *income* level..???

  8. #30228
    Second Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Political Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    The problem in this case isn't statistics. There's a reason why news articles keep identifying a new food or beverage that either causes or cures cancer. It's because science is a compilation of studies repeated and done with variation to point to general trends.
    Sorry to break it to you but 99% of these studies were ordered and payed for by multinational corps. Only the serious scientific papers are to be considered as legit, which literally 99.9% of the world population including myself doesn't read. Eventually if the proof is implacable, it kind of becomes "official" to everybody. Doesnt mean the study itself is bogus, just has a very limited scope. Exactly like the Kavanaugh investigation. But you should know there are major false-studies scams that were exposed, and they were published in scientific revues.

    People like gluten-free stuff? they'll drop in a study that shows the bad effects of gluten. Then there are lobbyists building dams in the Govt regulations processes to keep their product on the shelves. The truth is there, but you need to dig for it, which most people don't.

    It took over 20 years of class-action lawsuits to get the biggest cigarettes companies to even admit that their product causes lung cancer. Think about how Tesla was publicly shamed and portrayed as a fool for going against the big coal industry.

  9. #30229
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Political Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SGalisa View Post
    For one thing, it's too cold to live in Canada in the winter weather. Smart folks stay in warmer climates.
    Well, since Canada (or anyone else who thinks we should accept all comers and pay for their existence) will be providing them with housing and all the other necessities of life at their taxpayer expense, they won't be out in the cold, will they?
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
    - Starship Voyager's Holographic Doctor
    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
    - Former Borg Seven of Nine

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