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  1. #31161
    Lieutenant Colonel Gatefan1976's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Political Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    You think I care? Ignore it if you don't find it funny
    The point is, if it were a bloke, would you have even noticed, cared or made a joke at all.
    ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
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  2. #31162
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    Default Re: The Political Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    She has a certain flame in her eyes that clearly shows she is passionate about what she does and believes in. This to me is a clear sign of a potential great leader. She doesn't have the dead-eye stare of a rotting politician yet.

    I'm just joking about why I had not noticed that last time we brought the topic up.
    I may not be up to speed on American politics, but wouldn't that be the woman who falsely claimed to have Jewish ancestry?
    If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions.- Abba Eban.

  3. #31163
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    Default Re: The Political Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    I am suggesting that some in the US are more happy to accept the excuse of being there for Israel than any actual reality Womble.
    You should just attach wheels to those goalposts if you're going to move them so much.

    I am stating that by placing troops in some states, it stops troops in other states from acting. Are the troops in SoKo there for stopping China?
    No, but they do.
    Are the troops in Germany there to stop German neighbours, or to stop Russian advances?
    The troops in Germany are there to protect Germany. They are there because Russia and Germany share a border, and in the very recent past USSR had five armies stationed in East Germany, ready to pounce on Western Europe. US has beem moving troops out of Germany ever since the USSR collapsed (their departure gutted the income of many German municipalities, but the infrastructure there was too vast to up and move in a day. And then Russia became a relevant enemy again.

    US troops in the Middle East are there to protect American interests which for the most part have little to do with Israel - or Iran - even on the level of public claims. The highest number of US troops is in Bahrain. Why? Because NSA Bahrain is the seat of power of the US Navy as it controls the Indian ocean. Previously it served the same purpose for the British empire as HMS Jufair. US bases in Kuwait are the heritage of the two Iraq wars. Bases in Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Jordan are there to protect US-friendly governments which hold major influence within OPEC from being menaced by nearby hostile regimes like Iran, and in the not-so-distant past Iraq. Et cetera. No arcane reasoning is needed to explain those.

    Stop looking for everything I say to be anti-Jewish or Anti-Semetic.
    You think I have a hard on for abusing your nation and religion, and I don't.
    I actually don't believe that you are self-aware enough to identify the prejudices that underpin your views. For the post part, you're just repeating whatever the leftmost part of the media is feeding you.

    I could claim you have a persecution complex, but I don't because Judaism actually has a history of being persecuted, but I do wonder if that history, just like my own religion colours your perception.
    I'll freely admit that the sustained, century (to Millenia) spanning destruction of everything associated with not just my religion, but all pagan/heathen religious sites, priests, priestesses and followers from your basic belief system and it's successors does not rub me the wrong way, because it does.
    I could claim that paganism is not a coherent faith to which one can claim ancestry; it's an umbrella term for a zillion of distinct religions and no actual adherent would claim to be a "pagan" just like no actual Christian or Muslim claims to be an "Abrahamian". I could claim that there is no actual historical link between anyone currently identifying as "pagan" and the actual pagan religions of old, and any claim to such link, or to "pagan" identity is manipulative and false, and has as its purpose exploitation of protections and sympathies afforded to genuine religions.

    Unless you are a Tengrist from Mongolia, a native Australian, a Nigerian Igbo or an Inuit shamanist, you have no claim to sharing the history of pagan religions or their persecution. You are a descendant of the persecutors who is engaged in cultural appropriation.

    Sigh.
    To get back on topic however, no, the troops are not there to specifically defend Israel.
    Would they be there if Israel was not?
    Yes. And to answer that "better question" (why exactly is that question better?) the would have been there if the Middle East had no oil. USA has been involved in the Middle East since back before their ships had sails.
    If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions.- Abba Eban.

  4. #31164
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Political Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    AOC really scares you, doesn't she
    Of course she does. This country was never supposed to be a socialist nation, which is clearly what she wants to convert it to. And there are enough young skulls full of mush in this place who don't know any better that listen to her.

    This is an extension of the "take over wall street" crowd about a decade back; you remember that bunch that was living in their parent's basements and demanding that their student loans be forgiven? They basically just want everything handed to them for free.
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
    - Starship Voyager's Holographic Doctor
    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
    - Former Borg Seven of Nine

  5. #31165
    Lieutenant Colonel Gatefan1976's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Political Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Womble View Post
    You should just attach wheels to those goalposts if you're going to move them so much.
    I'm not moving anything.

    The troops in Germany are there to protect Germany. They are there because Russia and Germany share a border, and in the very recent past USSR had five armies stationed in East Germany, ready to pounce on Western Europe.
    Once more missing the point, but hey why bother with reality.
    US has beem moving troops out of Germany ever since the USSR collapsed (their departure gutted the income of many German municipalities, but the infrastructure there was too vast to up and move in a day.
    That's an economic argument.
    And then Russia became a relevant enemy again.
    It never has not been.
    US troops in the Middle East are there to protect American interests which for the most part have little to do with Israel - or Iran - even on the level of public claims. The highest number of US troops is in Bahrain. Why? Because NSA Bahrain is the seat of power of the US Navy as it controls the Indian ocean. Previously it served the same purpose for the British empire as HMS Jufair. US bases in Kuwait are the heritage of the two Iraq wars. Bases in Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Jordan are there to protect US-friendly governments which hold major influence within OPEC from being menaced by nearby hostile regimes like Iran, and in the not-so-distant past Iraq. Et cetera. No arcane reasoning is needed to explain those.
    It's power projection, just as I said, and just as I agreed with you on.

    I actually don't believe that you are self-aware enough to identify the prejudices that underpin your views. For the post part, you're just repeating whatever the leftmost part of the media is feeding you.
    Actually, it's more the right wing that feeds into Jewish conspiracy theories. "Jews will not replace us" and "Soros conspiracy" are both right wing talking points, so who is really unaware here?
    I could claim that paganism is not a coherent faith to which one can claim ancestry;
    It ISN'T a coherent faith, and I make no claim of ancestry, so your argument, such as it is, is irrelevant.
    Just because your faith requires some kind of "direct linage" does not mean others must adhere to it. But sure, lets explore why a white Russian dude thinks he has some direct relationship with a Middle Eastern pheasant born in a stable.

    distinct religions and no actual adherent would claim to be a "pagan"
    I say pagan because it is simpler than saying anything else.
    just like no actual Christian or Muslim claims to be an "Abrahamian".
    But they are. Their entire belief structure is based on it.

    I could claim that there is no actual historical link between anyone currently identifying as "pagan" and the actual pagan religions of old, and any claim to such link, or to "pagan" identity is manipulative and false, and has as its purpose exploitation of protections and sympathies afforded to genuine religions.
    Genuine religions?
    Are you joking here, or do you believe that?
    Unless you are a Tengrist from Mongolia, a native Australian, a Nigerian Igbo or an Inuit shamanist, you have no claim to sharing the history of pagan religions or their persecution. You are a descendant of the persecutors who is engaged in cultural appropriation.
    I have a duty to accept that my choices have consequences, and those that came before me made bad choices.
    Tell me, is Judaism native to Russia? Or are you just as much of a hypocrite you are trying to paint me as?
    Jews are not Russian, nor is Christianity, but hey, it works for you, so screw facts,, right?
    I'm sure you have direct evidence of your family being Jewish since Adam and Eve.
    Yes. And to answer that "better question" (why exactly is that question better?)
    It's more on topic.
    the would have been there if the Middle East had no oil. USA has been involved in the Middle East since back before their ships had sails.
    You should see a shrink dude. The USA did not exist before sails, it didn't even exist based on oil.
    ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
    A lie is just a truth that hasn't gone through conversion therapy yet
    The truth isn't the truth

  6. #31166
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Political Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    The point is, if it were a bloke, would you have even noticed, cared or made a joke at all.
    Get out. I make fun of every politician, that's why they exist, for my amusement. I literally just posted a meme about Bernie and his funny hair. Stop trying to look for beef everywhere. What happened to your New Years resolution man?

    Quote Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
    This is an extension of the "take over wall street" crowd about a decade back; you remember that bunch that was living in their parent's basements and demanding that their student loans be forgiven? They basically just want everything handed to them for free.
    Not for free, the rich will pay for it! (Just like the Mexicans will pay for the Wall, why wouldn't it work this time around?)
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  7. #31167
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Political Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    Not for free, the rich will pay for it! (Just like the Mexicans will pay for the Wall, why wouldn't it work this time around?)
    Why on earth should anyone beside themselves have to pay for it? In the case of student loans, they signed on the dotted line, ddin't they?
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
    - Starship Voyager's Holographic Doctor
    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
    - Former Borg Seven of Nine

  8. #31168
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Political Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
    Why on earth should anyone beside themselves have to pay for it? In the case of student loans, they signed on the dotted line, ddin't they?
    Programs to give interest free loans for X amount of years is something that works very well. You do know that students get out of University with crippling debts, some up to 100-200k for Dr's.? Not having a job when they get out of school sometimes for months/years?

    Do you even know what kind of life that is? I see you complain a lot about being the working stiff and all that, try working 25-35 hours a week, attend classes every day, homeworks and study all night, group projects, have 2-3 hours of sleep per day, meanwhile not having a single penny to spend on anything else but basic necessities and try to stick a social life to that. I've been through this charade, luckily for me the Quebec province has capped its University fees so most of us can achieve Bachelors and PHD's, if it wasn't for that social program I would never have been able to afford high-level education since my parents were far from wealthy.

    Again it's an investment, high-level education brings much more tax money to the state in the long run than your ''working stiff'' that pays the bare minimum. You got to look further than your feet Annoyed.
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  9. #31169
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Political Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    Programs to give interest free loans for X amount of years is something that works very well. You do know that students get out of University with crippling debts, some up to 100-200k for Dr's.? Not having a job when they get out of school sometimes for months/years?

    Do you even know what kind of life that is? I see you complain a lot about being the working stiff and all that, try working 25-35 hours a week, attend classes every day, homeworks and study all night, group projects, have 2-3 hours of sleep per day, meanwhile not having a single penny to spend on anything else but basic necessities and try to stick a social life to that. I've been through this charade, luckily for me the Quebec province has capped its University fees so most of us can achieve Bachelors and PHD's, if it wasn't for that social program I would never have been able to afford high-level education since my parents were far from wealthy.

    Again it's an investment, high-level education brings much more tax money to the state in the long run than your ''working stiff'' that pays the bare minimum. You got to look further than your feet Annoyed.
    RAW BS.

    This "investment", like any other is a gamble; the guy is betting that he'll get ahead by making this bet.

    He chose to make the bet, if he loses, why is that anyone else's problem?

    If I go to Vegas or the Wall Street Casino and lose my shorts, why is that anyone else's problem?
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
    - Starship Voyager's Holographic Doctor
    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
    - Former Borg Seven of Nine

  10. #31170
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Political Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
    RAW BS.
    Do you even mathematics? Individual with 150k income pays more taxes in a few decades than what an individual with 50k income will be in his whole life.
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  11. #31171
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Political Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    Do you even mathematics? Individual with 150k income pays more taxes in a few decades than what an individual with 50k income will be in his whole life.
    And if I go to Vegas or win the lottery, I'll pay just as much in taxes. But it's still GAMBLING
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
    - Starship Voyager's Holographic Doctor
    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
    - Former Borg Seven of Nine

  12. #31172

    Default Re: The Political Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    Do you even mathematics? Individual with 150k income pays more taxes in a few decades than what an individual with 50k income will be in his whole life.
    Quote Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
    And if I go to Vegas or win the lottery, I'll pay just as much in taxes. But it's still GAMBLING
    I think that is a no Chaka
    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    Jelgate is right

  13. #31173
    Lieutenant Colonel Gatefan1976's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Political Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
    RAW BS.
    No total economic truth.
    Better educated folks create more income, which provides more for the state.
    This "investment", like any other is a gamble; the guy is betting that he'll get ahead by making this bet.
    Banks make this gamble every day, and they work., and are profitable.
    You know why?
    It's not a gamble, it's a risk assessment.
    He chose to make the bet, if he loses, why is that anyone else's problem?
    It is the STATE making the gamble, not the student.
    If I go to Vegas or the Wall Street Casino and lose my shorts, why is that anyone else's problem?
    We would have to look at you.
    ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
    A lie is just a truth that hasn't gone through conversion therapy yet
    The truth isn't the truth

  14. #31174
    Lieutenant Colonel Gatefan1976's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Political Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jelgate View Post
    I think that is a no Chaka
    More like "what is mathematics"
    ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
    A lie is just a truth that hasn't gone through conversion therapy yet
    The truth isn't the truth

  15. #31175
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    Default Re: The Political Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    Programs to give interest free loans for X amount of years is something that works very well. You do know that students get out of University with crippling debts, some up to 100-200k for Dr's.? Not having a job when they get out of school sometimes for months/years?
    That's why smarter Americans send their children to Europe to get quality education on the cheap.
    If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions.- Abba Eban.

  16. #31176
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Political Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Womble View Post
    That's why smarter Americans send their children to Europe to get quality education on the cheap.
    Question. Do folks in Europe have to pay for their own education, or are the taxpayers expected to pay for it as it is here, with oodles of assistance programs?
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
    - Starship Voyager's Holographic Doctor
    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
    - Former Borg Seven of Nine

  17. #31177
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    Default Re: The Political Discussion Thread

    So my dilemma who to vote for has been resolved by the shifting sands of Israeli politics.

    The name of the game in these elections is consolidation. Small parties are forming blocks in order to make themselves more attractive. Yair Lapid joined forces with Benny Gantz, former IDF Chief of Staff who has only gone into politics this December. The block - called "Blue and White" -includes two more former IDF Chiefs of Staff, Moshe Yaalon and Gabi Ashkenazi, both of whom have a good reputation. This created a powerful centrist party, which the forecasters say may unseat the Likud as the largest party in the next Knesset. According to the terms of the merge, Benny Ganz is expected to be Prime Minister for the first 2.5 years should they win, to be replaced by Yair Lapid for the next 1.5 years. Netanyahu called the new party a "union of left-wing generals posing as right-wing", but he is clearly feeling threatened. I could vote for these guys, they seem sensible enough and Yair Lapid's anti-clerical position means they will not allow religious parties too much influence.

    Netanyahu's Likud is also scrambling for allies in order to form a right-wing block - and they are reaching way, way too far to the right, incorporating ideological descendants of the racist Kach. I can't vote for that.

    The Left is in free fall. Former Labor's Tzipi Livni has abandoned politics, and what's left of Labor has been reduced to a small party of 5 to 8 seats. Meretz is stuck, smaller parties are forecast to disappear entirely.

    Oh, and the Arab parties are trying to form a block as well. Good luck with that. Communists, hardline Palestinian nationalists and Islamic Movement representatives aren't any kind of good at cooperating.
    If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions.- Abba Eban.

  18. #31178
    Major General aretood2's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Political Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
    Question. Do folks in Europe have to pay for their own education, or are the taxpayers expected to pay for it as it is here, with oodles of assistance programs?
    For the most part, it is free in Europe to get a university education. And there are also oodles of assistance programs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Womble View Post
    So my dilemma who to vote for has been resolved by the shifting sands of Israeli politics.

    The name of the game in these elections is consolidation. Small parties are forming blocks in order to make themselves more attractive. Yair Lapid joined forces with Benny Gantz, former IDF Chief of Staff who has only gone into politics this December. The block - called "Blue and White" -includes two more former IDF Chiefs of Staff, Moshe Yaalon and Gabi Ashkenazi, both of whom have a good reputation. This created a powerful centrist party, which the forecasters say may unseat the Likud as the largest party in the next Knesset. According to the terms of the merge, Benny Ganz is expected to be Prime Minister for the first 2.5 years should they win, to be replaced by Yair Lapid for the next 1.5 years. Netanyahu called the new party a "union of left-wing generals posing as right-wing", but he is clearly feeling threatened. I could vote for these guys, they seem sensible enough and Yair Lapid's anti-clerical position means they will not allow religious parties too much influence.

    Netanyahu's Likud is also scrambling for allies in order to form a right-wing block - and they are reaching way, way too far to the right, incorporating ideological descendants of the racist Kach. I can't vote for that.

    The Left is in free fall. Former Labor's Tzipi Livni has abandoned politics, and what's left of Labor has been reduced to a small party of 5 to 8 seats. Meretz is stuck, smaller parties are forecast to disappear entirely.

    Oh, and the Arab parties are trying to form a block as well. Good luck with that. Communists, hardline Palestinian nationalists and Islamic Movement representatives aren't any kind of good at cooperating.
    Good luck, I doubt Israel could afford being any further to the right in the long term.

  19. #31179
    Lieutenant Colonel Gatefan1976's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Political Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
    Question. Do folks in Europe have to pay for their own education, or are the taxpayers expected to pay for it as it is here, with oodles of assistance programs?
    It's a factored in part of tax, so your answer is "yes and no"
    There are no "assistance programs" such as you see them in the US, but you might see things like deferred loans so as not to swamp new taxpayers. You get an education, and when you start making X amount, you start paying back the loan. Think of it like this, When you get your base pay for your job based on education, you pay your fee's back. As a mechanic, you would not have paid for your education, until as a mechanic, you could pay it back without putting you into the poorhouse.
    It's not about "dodging accountability", it's putting it where it is a viable option.
    This is the reality of "free education", it's not "free", it's an investment into the future taken on behalf of the state so those kids can pay them more in the long run.
    Does it fail sometimes? YES.
    Does it produce more than it fails? YES.
    ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
    A lie is just a truth that hasn't gone through conversion therapy yet
    The truth isn't the truth

  20. #31180
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Political Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    For the most part, it is free in Europe to get a university education. And there are also oodles of assistance programs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    It's a factored in part of tax, so your answer is "yes and no"
    There are no "assistance programs" such as you see them in the US, but you might see things like deferred loans so as not to swamp new taxpayers. You get an education, and when you start making X amount, you start paying back the loan. Think of it like this, When you get your base pay for your job based on education, you pay your fee's back. As a mechanic, you would not have paid for your education, until as a mechanic, you could pay it back without putting you into the poorhouse.
    It's not about "dodging accountability", it's putting it where it is a viable option.
    This is the reality of "free education", it's not "free", it's an investment into the future taken on behalf of the state so those kids can pay them more in the long run.
    Does it fail sometimes? YES.
    Does it produce more than it fails? YES.
    But that's the point. In the US, the education industry knows that their incoming young skulls full of mush can get everyone and their mother to pay the bills, so they are free to charge as much as they want, because they know that the kid can sign loans, get grants and such. This has driven the cost of secondary education into the stratosphere.

    If on the other hand, little Jane & Johnny had to pay the freight out of their own pockets directly, without the taxpayers picking up the tab, there would be hard limits as to what they could charge; if they jack the price too high, no one can afford it so market forces drive their price back down. This lowers the cost to everyone, and would greatly reduce the amount that has to be borrowed.
    Last edited by Annoyed; Today at 09:31 AM.
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
    - Starship Voyager's Holographic Doctor
    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
    - Former Borg Seven of Nine

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