The Political Discussion Thread

[garhkal]

Who the hell is handing them all this stuff to use?

IMO they stole it from Syrian military troops. Afterall The Syrians did get called out on using it on their own people..

[Coco Pops]

IMO they stole it from Syrian military troops. Afterall The Syrians did get called out on using it on their own people..

They are either very lucky or very well supplied. Or something else..

[aretood2]

And, just like cell phones, Internet connectivity and having a computer are LUXURIES. If someone wants these things, fine. They can go buy them. With their own money, not that of the taxpayer.

Perhaps the teachers should be more cognizant of the limitations of their classes when designing their programs. Don't require computers.

An awful lot of people have gone through the schools very successfully without them.

Here's the thing. I specifically said that teachers are under "immense pressure" as in "not their choice" as in "do it or get fired" as in "Even if they wanted to return to nothing but wood pencils and chalkboards, the administration wouldn't allow it." And yet, somehow you manage to blame teachers.

[jelgate]

Its never the teacher's fault. Its always because the administrators or state requires the teachers to do this

[aretood2]

Its never the teacher's fault. Its always because the administrators or state requires the teachers to do this

To be honest, it's reality's fault. The fact that we live in a technological era where if you want to do more than collect trash (before robots take those jobs) or flip burgers (before robots take that too) you need to have more than social knowledge of computers and the collaborative skill needed in today's job market among most if not all professions. That is, if your society wants to remain relevant in the 1st world.

Education can't be static, so not many teachers are refusing or pushing back against requirements to incorporate technology in and outside of the classroom. It's just that it is ridiculous to solely lay blame on teachers "not being cognizant" of their students. They are all to well aware of that, thus the desire for increased school funding so they could at least have devices for all students inside of school. Well, funding for working computers, faster networks, larger libraries ect...without getting paid less than what was spent in becoming a teacher would be nice too.

All that said, it still amazes me how the blame can be placed on those who have no control of a system that is inherently uncontrollable by said individuals.

[Annoyed]

Here's the thing. I specifically said that teachers are under "immense pressure" as in "not their choice" as in "do it or get fired" as in "Even if they wanted to return to nothing but wood pencils and chalkboards, the administration wouldn't allow it." And yet, somehow you manage to blame teachers.

I was using the phrase "teachers" as a reference to the entire public education system, particularly in the larger urban areas, where liberal polices have been the rule for decades.
I'm a resident of The People's Republic of NY. One of the most liberal states in the U.S.
Here are a few facts about a nearby large city school district.
Cost per pupil:$20,333
Graduation Rate: 43%

So, they're spending a hell of a lot of money, for very poor results. Where is the money going?

The spending gap is largely driven by employee salaries and benefits. Rochester spent $16,299 per student on salaries and benefits, compared with the median of $7,251 among other large districts.

The entire public education system, along with most other areas of NY government, are run by and for the benefit of the government employees, and should be scrapped.

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/...hest/28413437/

[Gatefan1976]

I was using the phrase "teachers" as a reference to the entire public education system, particularly in the larger urban areas, where liberal polices have been the rule for decades.
I'm a resident of The People's Republic of NY. One of the most liberal states in the U.S.
Here are a few facts about a nearby large city school district.
Cost per pupil:$20,333
Graduation Rate: 43%

So, they're spending a hell of a lot of money, for very poor results. Where is the money going?



The entire public education system, along with most other areas of NY government, are run by and for the benefit of the government employees, and should be scrapped.

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/...hest/28413437/

Umm............
Would you care to stack those figures up against classroom size and cost of teacher?
Look not to the teachers Annoyed, one might as well blame the checkout operator for the high cost of the products in the store they happen to work in.

[Annoyed]

Umm............
Would you care to stack those figures up against classroom size and cost of teacher?
Look not to the teachers Annoyed, one might as well blame the checkout operator for the high cost of the products in the store they happen to work in.

Did you not read where I said the entire public education system, not just the teachers?

[Gatefan1976]

Did you not read where I said the entire public education system, not just the teachers?

No, I read it, I just saw who you actually blamed when it came to cost Vs return.

[LtColCarter]

Here's the thing. I specifically said that teachers are under "immense pressure" as in "not their choice" as in "do it or get fired" as in "Even if they wanted to return to nothing but wood pencils and chalkboards, the administration wouldn't allow it." And yet, somehow you manage to blame teachers.

As a teacher who just completed 20 years in the classroom...you are correct. In my school district, we have to to MRSs (Multiple Response Strategies). Any effective teacher uses these normally, but my district wants us to insert them into our lessons artificially and not as a natural part of the learning process.

My students are the highest performing on my grade level in the district. Yet, I get marked down in a spot evaluations when my administrator comes in and doesn't see a MRS. I just don't understand why this happens. If my kids weren't performing well, I'd understand.

Besides district regulations, there are high stakes testing that comes from the state level. I've spent this summer writing curriculum for the district. The curriculum is all designed around the STAAR (State of Texas Assessment of Academic Readiness) test.

However, people making comments in this thread about teachers aren't in the classroom. This makes as much sense as members of congress (both state level and national level) making educational policy when they have no background in education. It makes as much sense as going to a trash collector to have neurosurgery.

[aretood2]

I was using the phrase "teachers" as a reference to the entire public education system, particularly in the larger urban areas, where liberal polices have been the rule for decades.

What kind of policies, exactly?

I'm a resident of The People's Republic of NY. One of the most liberal states in the U.S.
Here are a few facts about a nearby large city school district.
Cost per pupil:$20,333
Graduation Rate: 43%

So, they're spending a hell of a lot of money, for very poor results. Where is the money going?

Well, according to the same stinkin' article that you linked. Reading specialists, pathologists, psychologists, tests and so on. Also, most people don't understand just how expensive testing is. Not the tests teachers make, but the standardized tests. Those are purchased from companies who administer them, collect results, and publish those results and then sell those results to the schools that payed for the tests in the first place.

All of this is beyond the classroom teacher pay which I am assuming that you think is getting all the money. Actually, cost per student includes reduced/free lunch programs, breakfast programs, equipment and maintenance, textbook and technology subscriptions, media center (that's the library) costs, non-classroom teachers (those are your ESL teachers, special ed, reading specialists, councilors, bridge project teachers, extra tutors, etc...). Then there's the administration and their fancy cars that you have to pay for. For urban schools, security guards and security systems as well. Also replacement costs for material that students damage or lose (do you really think they always pay up in order to graduate? that's mostly an empty threat).


The district also pays for community colleges and charter schools too, so add all of their expenses into the mix and of course the per student rate will be high.

But money isn't always the problem, all of these things are paid for in the belief that teachers have to be godlike and solve students' problems left and right. In poor communities, students face other issues that are outside of school and aren't related to learning disabilities (though poverty has been proven to impact a student's progress for a variety of reasons). These social economic factors are being ignored and do account for high rates of dropouts. But sure, blame teachers for not being godlike enough to change those issues. It won't solve a darn thing. Do you really think private schools are willing to take those kind of students? No businessman in their right mind would.

The entire public education system, along with most other areas of NY government, are run by and for the benefit of the government employees, and should be scrapped.

So punish the hundreds of successful school districts and thousands of effective teachers because your local district and your neighbors can't cut it? Why should successful systems suffer because of those who aren't successful?

Did you not read where I said the entire public education system, not just the teachers?

As I hinted above, this is what private systems do:

They do not accept low preforming students and are quick to boot out at risk students so that their numbers don't get hurt. They won't handle behavioral problems to the same extent as public schools because they'll take a hit in profits. Attracting parents' money is the business model and no school is going to want to take Rochester students who will cause problems. Why? Because unlike Congress, they know that their teachers can't solve those kids' problems. Those kids need help on a societal level that teachers nor schools are equipped nor designed to handle.

So we have a baby and bathwater issue here. However, there are special private schools for behavioral problems, but can Rochester parents afford that? There's no way to insure an educated public without public schooling. Private schooling will leave a permanent class of undereducated peasantry. Public schools at least provide the venue for social mobility.

[Annoyed]

As a teacher who just completed 20 years in the classroom...you are correct. In my school district, we have to to MRSs (Multiple Response Strategies). Any effective teacher uses these normally, but my district wants us to insert them into our lessons artificially and not as a natural part of the learning process.

My students are the highest performing on my grade level in the district. Yet, I get marked down in a spot evaluations when my administrator comes in and doesn't see a MRS. I just don't understand why this happens. If my kids weren't performing well, I'd understand.

Besides district regulations, there are high stakes testing that comes from the state level. I've spent this summer writing curriculum for the district. The curriculum is all designed around the STAAR (State of Texas Assessment of Academic Readiness) test.

However, people making comments in this thread about teachers aren't in the classroom. This makes as much sense as members of congress (both state level and national level) making educational policy when they have no background in education. It makes as much sense as going to a trash collector to have neurosurgery.

I've heard this before; You can't criticize teachers or the educational system unless you are a teacher because you're not qualified.

Tell me something. You may or may not be qualified as an auto mechanic. Assume for this discussion you aren't. Does that make you unqualified to notice that your car's engine is on fire and the rear end dropped out and is lying on the road behind you? Of course not.

By the same logic, a laymen can look at the results a school district gets and decide if it's working right or not.

I don't know about where you are, but speaking of NY state.. Not only is the engine on fire and the rear end is lying on the ground behind it, the transmission is lying back there with it.

[Coco Pops]

Some political satire about our PM... It's kind of scary/funny with the attacks on the ABC and media

https://www.facebook.com/AtHomeWithT...e=3&permPage=1

And this one. Note that last couple of lines it's so true

https://www.facebook.com/AtHomeWithT...e=3&permPage=1

[garhkal]

I've heard this before; You can't criticize teachers or the educational system unless you are a teacher because you're not qualified.

I have often heard the same sort of lines in relation to "You are not a parent, you can't therefore make comments on good parenting/bad parenting" or "You never served in the military, you can't comment on what the Military should/shouldn't do"..
Always irks me off.

[Coco Pops]

I kind of agree with Annoyed.. You can't criticize teachers because most of the time their hands are tied by stupid rules for anything they do that doesn't work the way parents think it should work. And governments love taking money out of education. So blame governments for that too not the teachers or schools..