The Political Discussion Thread

[jelgate]

Is it it time for another one of Annoyed's faceless conspiracy theories? I love these. They are hilarious when they contradict information

[Chaka-Z0]

Hard to keep track of. Which one would that be Jel? The open borders or the immigrant sleeper cells planted by the Dems for voters or the socialist / communist part?

[aretood2]

And what do you do with the apprehended? Send 'em back, no bs, or do we just continue as we we have?

Remember, one of the requirements of my question is effectiveness. Zero tolerance. How do you achieve that goal? You didn't say what you want to do with them upon apprehension.

You are moving goal posts. How would a physical wall change the issue of apprehensions? They will still happen, you know.

And besides, that is a stupid question that deserves and equally idiotic answer. But I'll bite my tongue and ask politely, what do you think? They'll be given an all expense paid trip to the Bahamas? You do know we have laws about what to do, right? Will, while you have no idea what those laws are maybe you should actually educate yourself?

And don't forget, H.R. 301, brought by a Republican member of the House, which would pay essential govt. employees who are forced to work, shutdown or not. Of course, the Dems want no part of it.

The same dems that offered to pay for Trump's wall in exchange for concessions but Trump said no last year? Interesting...

You're correct, the Dems do want to reform this country into a socialist paradise (a contradiction in terms by itself), just listen the incessant childish rantings of Ocasio-Cortez. That idiot has no idea how the world works, she is just like a 4 year old demanding whatever she wants and threatening to hold her breath till her parents relent. But she commands a great deal of attention with the Dems.

I'm sorry, I'm confused. Are you talking about Trump?

Actually, the Dems have a far more insidious strategy at work, which is why they will never agree to a wall, or anything else that effectively stops illegal immigration. In fact, as far as I can tell, the proposal they have is for more immigration judges, more facilities to process immigrants and such. They want to welcome them with open arms.

This is where your ignorance of immigration law shines strongest. Judges are needed to effect deportations. You know, due process and all. They are also needed to process asylum claims and facilities are needed to hold illegal immigrants who have been captured instead of placing them in prisons which are proven recruiting centers for organized crime. But no, sure. scary brown people arguments are all so superior to facts.

Their goal is this: They know that first generation immigrants overwhelmingly vote Democrat, at least partially because they are dependent upon social services, which Democrats are eager to provide. So, of course, they have "paths to citizenship" plans for all the illegals that are already here, and the millions yet to arrive whom they want to welcome in, which will allow them to vote.

1st generation immigrants use a much smaller share of welfare than immigrants themselves and are more socially mobile than other subsets of the population (that means going from dirt poor to middle class to even riches).

You seem to conflate immigrants with citizens here. Even your CIS doesn't count first Generation Americans as immigrants, since they are native born. Why would you conflate people like me with illegals or those born to immigrants here in the with illegals? This is where your prejudice starts showing.

See where this is going? They want to import a permanent guaranteed victory at the ballot box, because their ideas don't resonate with many US citizens.

Except the 65 odd million Americans that voted for Clinton....I guess they don't count as US citizens. And keep in mind how many more would have voted for Bernie Sanders who is every bit as socialist as Ocasio-Cortez if not more so. Even you yourself mentioned how he would have possibly beaten Trump.

They screwed up beyond belief in 2016, allowing Trump to win an election they could have very easily won, and they're gonna be paying for that mistake for at least a generation as Trump's judicial appointments begin to change the course of the courts.

And here is another contradiction. First the message doesn't resonate with American citizens, and now that message would have won had Bernie been the nominee.

They are trying to set themselves up for permanent Democratic (socialist) rule of the U.S.

As opposed to Trumps State run Capitalism (a bastardized child of socialism pioneered by Fascist Italy and adopted by other not so reputable governments)?

Which is an excellent reason for Trump and the Republicans to stand their ground on this wall fight, no matter how long it takes. Or if needed, build the wall with the Military.

Translation: If need be use the constitution as toilet paper.

Edit: Another contradiction, you claim to care about American Citizens yet you care little about the people who aren't getting paychecks and contractors who will soon feel the impact of the shut down that will also lead to job losses. All for what? A wall? Because of some ridiculous notion of scary brown people? Nevermind that immigrants tend to be socially conservative which is why so many voted for George W Bush and why nearly a third still voted for Trump despite his obvious to all (let's be honest here) his disdain for them.

[Chaka-Z0]

1st generation immigrants use a much smaller share of welfare than immigrants themselves and are more socially mobile than other subsets of the population (that means going from dirt poor to middle class to even riches).

A couple days ago I linked economics facts that immigrants actually end up paying, on average, 21k more taxes than your standard American. But facts that don't fit Trump's rhetoric is a return to sender for him.

[Annoyed]

This is where your ignorance of immigration law shines strongest. Judges are needed to effect deportations. You know, due process and all. They are also needed to process asylum claims and facilities are needed to hold illegal immigrants who have been captured instead of placing them in prisons which are proven recruiting centers for organized crime. But no, sure. scary brown people arguments are all so superior to facts.

And this is one of the areas where a wall shines the brightest. The wall blocks entry. They don't get in. Therefore, no deportation, judges, facilities or anything else needed. Mexico can do with them as they see fit.

[COLOR="#000080"]1st generation immigrants use a much smaller share of welfare than immigrants themselves and are more socially mobile than other subsets of the population (that means going from dirt poor to middle class to even riches).

We're not talking about the same thing. By "First Generation", I'm referring to the folks that sneak in or overstay. Their subsequent generations may do better than they did, though.

Except the 65 odd million Americans that voted for Clinton....I guess they don't count as US citizens. And keep in mind how many more would have voted for Bernie Sanders who is every bit as socialist as Ocasio-Cortez if not more so. Even you yourself mentioned how he would have possibly beaten Trump.

And here is another contradiction. First the message doesn't resonate with American citizens, and now that message would have won had Bernie been the nominee.

Sanders wasn't even half the looney that Ocasio-Cortez is.

[SoulReaver]

Trump started this little **** storm, and he publicly owned it.

tss ain't you forgetting the new standards? starting is not starting

[SGalisa]

A wall will not block entry, it can only delay it at best.

I agree. Methods of getting around, over, under or thru certain types of walls have already been discussed.

Trump started this little **** storm, and he publicly owned it.
Get that through your thick skull.

Trump started the whole "Mexico will pay for the Wall" issue. Then, stuck his foot into his mouth and then some more. Media/MSM ..AND.. (generic) *you* who keep RUBBING it into the ground ---- won't let it go either... Not my problem...I'm not condoning any of this *stuff* (BS) from either side. That's all *your* own faults for harping on it over and over and over again... and it's eating your souls up ---or you wouldn't KEEP bringing it back up and throwing it into the proverbial faces of people *you* accuse of who *you* think want it to continue being there.

Personally, I see the door of (spiritual manifestation of) GRACE about to slam shut fast on this world. When it does, (generic) you're ALL on your own. Revel in that, cause some people will because they are sooooooooo blinded to the realities of what is really going on all around them. I say that generically about who *you* and the world are... Where this GRACE comes from at this point in time doesn't seem to matter to the world---the world is reverting back to its primitive times, while claiming it is "progressing" to a higher level of civilization... HAH! Time will tell. Sad truth there.

Few people might wake up before they get consumed by their own blindness or ignorance too. It's probably better to be naive and ignorant to the rantings of what is going on in this world politically than to be actively participating in reshaping the world into a global mess. Already got the mess. The "globalists" just don't know how to fix 10,000 years of recorded history with wars and warmongering and abusing the general people who do the lower rung level jobs for TPTB at the top of the proverbial ladder.

And just for GF, if you specifically toss the Bible back in my direction about political C*ap, and how I see what is currently happening in the USA or in the rest of the world, again, time will reveal all. Maybe you and a bunch of other folks are just *not* patient enough to see that yet.

I can only say what I feel within my spirit. This is a *Spiritual warfare* on a scale you cannot even begin to imagine... and the people on this planet *seem* to be just players on the stage performing for their version of "good" vs. evil. Been that way for centuries.

The fact that you are willing to accept a dictatorial role from the POTUS, no matter the party means the US is already lost.

The problem (GF) with your comment there is that you are claiming that ---I would personally be totally accepting of--- it doesn't matter WHAT (political) party is in control of POTUS. SORRY... but that is incorrect. It is ONLY when the DEMs take FULL 100% control of this USA, that the deed will be doomed to H.E.double L...the USA will go downhill so fast it will be like watching a runaway vehicle flying downhill without any brakes on heading into a severely crashed status.

Thankfully, for the moment, We (the USA) are NOT there yet.

But the USA Dems seem to *want* to push us there... Dems say... *Hey TAX the (upper wealthy) people 70%!* Who cares? Hey, Dems... those wealthy enough paying the 70% in TAXes will just up and move out of the state or country they're being TAXed in. They know the loopholes and know how to get out of "Dodge" before TSHTF any further. So then, the rest of us lower paid peons get *shafted* once again to PAY the entire bill the DEMs will be enforcing upon us. FAST way to destroy an economy... seems the DEMs haven't yet figured this out. It's been done before elsewhere in USA history too, where the financial system got changed because it WAS NOT working. Put us/USA straight into a (1930's) depression. Deja vu if this ever happens again... History tends to "repeat itself" with a different generation, but with similar issues/problems/ and end (terminating) results.


(to everyone) ....more rambling....
For reasons I cannot explain, because nothing I've said up to this point in time has sunk into anyone's brains yet... I believe there is a *reason* WHY Donald Trump is president of the USA now. Part of that had to do with a massive amount of angst in our nation that got fed up with what TEAM Obama (as POTUS) did to us as a nation between 2008 to 2016. They voted by electoral system (God blessed that system!) to let Trump in and Hillary or any of the other Democrats out.

Once Trump is gone as POTUS, it is believed by many who have been tracking these events that IF the DEMs take over... surely then our USA will be lost. Maybe if Biden gets in as POTUS, things might not be so bad, but that's just *hoping* Biden can keep the USA out of the disaster zone of woes. Otherwise... Don't expect US to help out the rest of the world, then, because there won't be a USA capable of helping.

If (generic) *you* believe the USA is imperative in guiding the rest of the world to a successful status, then HEED the advice that's already been given. Otherwise, rely on the great UN to bail *you* all out of *your* troubles. AND if the UN goes bye-bye because some other mighty country with nukes decides to wipe out the USA(and thus, the UN with it), then good luck! Praying this event won't ever happen, but need to be aware that it might... SEVEN years... I stand by that time frame. For SEVEN years... Israel will have an important role (in survival) during that time frame too.. Don't know the actual time or event trigger, but that is the schedule as it was (biblically) recorded

Those people (such as SG and Annoyed) are a minority in the country, and were only elevated to power due to a broken electoral system and Russian interference.

The electoral system served its purpose with Trump (already noted it further above in my *ramblings*). This gov't procedure / system spared us from a lot more woes than the rest of this world thinks. Except for the time when Bush#43 deliberately shoved us into war with Iraq. THAT military direction was a huge mistake! Many people who voted for Bush #43 lost all hope from that point forward.

I wouldn't lose faith just yet GF. Hopefully the Trump regime will serve as a wake-up call for some Americans.

The ONLY wake up call is the one I already explained above within my reply to GF. If the DEMs get their way from here on in... It won't have a happy ending, even tho the DEMs *think* it will. Gut instincts...bearer of bad tidings and not-so-encouraging *feelings*...

You're correct, the Dems do want to reform this country into a socialist paradise (a contradiction in terms by itself), just listen the incessant childish rantings of Ocasio-Cortez. That idiot has no idea how the world works, she is just like a 4 year old demanding whatever she wants and threatening to hold her breath till her parents relent. But she commands a great deal of attention with the Dems.

Yeah... freaky about that sudden star status. She's been nicknamed the "media's darling". The MSM is pushing her into the spotlight and giving her VOICE and anticipated, proposed "agendas" to the Democrats just newly elected into the gov't system.

They are trying to set themselves up for permanent Democratic (socialist) rule of the U.S.

Exactly what I've been trying to say from day one. Started when Team Obama began swinging things into that general direction. They got snafu'd with a speed bump in the process when Trump became POTUS. Once Trump is out, it will be clear sailing for DEM agendas and NWO, etc, and punish the rest of us for just existing...

ONLY one problem... the DEMs forget that most of their opposing political party-minded *peon* peasants ARE the ones who also PAY (TAXes) which gives the DEMs in governing power their paychecks. Let them mentally *eat* that up, and wither justly IF they (TPTB) ever forget it. Most of us underlings won't feel sorry for TPTB then, even tho we're (stuck) going down with the rest of this proverbial sinking ship.

[Gatefan1976]

You and annoyed have absolutely no clue how either a government, of a power structure works.
Go back to school and learn something.

Annoyed wants rule via Autocracy
You want it via Theology.

You are both a joke.

[Chaka-Z0]

You are both a joke.

That's mildly put GF, not even a Crikey? Pff..

The tinfoil meter is off the chart (seriously Bush did 911? This sh*t again? Does jet fuel melt steel beams or does it not!!!!! ). This is 2019 ffs, wake up.

Then we've got those two buffoons bashing Occasio-Cortez basically because she's young and has progressive ideals. She's famous and her physical attributes are not to be denied (I tried saying this is the nicest possible way, sorry).

That's just why you hate her isn't it? Some new blood in a broken political system, forcing the old crows out of their comfort zone of your cursed political duality? You guys brought no other arguments than ''she's a kid durr hurr and she's full of herself!'', wait, that's not even an argument, that's child ranting.

I'm probably the youngest humanlizard being on this thread yet the elders seem to be out of intellectual ammunition. Sad.

[Annoyed]

That's mildly put GF, not even a Crikey? Pff..

The tinfoil meter is off the chart (seriously Bush did 911? This sh*t again? Does jet fuel melt steel beams or does it not!!!!! ). This is 2019 ffs, wake up.

Then we've got those two buffoons bashing Occasio-Cortez basically because she's young and has progressive ideals. She's famous and her physical attributes are not to be denied (I tried saying this is the nicest possible way, sorry).

That's just why you hate her isn't it? Some new blood in a broken political system, forcing the old crows out of their comfort zone of your cursed political duality? You guys brought no other arguments than ''she's a kid durr hurr and she's full of herself!'', wait, that's not even an argument, that's child ranting.

I'm probably the youngest humanlizard being on this thread yet the elders seem to be out of intellectual ammunition. Sad.

I dunno about SGalisia, but I'm bashing Occasio-Cortez because she wants to turn this country into a socialist paradise, and is apparently not even aware that she cannot legally do some of the things she's going on about. They are against the Constitution. And we've discussed how hard (impossible these days) it is to change that.

Just going on about things that you can't do is pretty childish in my book, which is why I use the kindergarten reference. She's acting like one.

And, maybe she does something for lizards and maybe human younglings, but she does nothing for me. Like that would make a difference in my reaction to her political views anyway.

[Chaka-Z0]

I dunno about SGalisia, but I'm bashing Occasio-Cortez because she wants to turn this country into a socialist paradise, and is apparently not even aware that she cannot legally do some of the things she's going on about. They are against the Constitution. And we've discussed how hard (impossible these days) it is to change that.

Just going on about things that you can't do is pretty childish in my book, which is why I use the kindergarten reference. She's acting like one.

And, maybe she does something for lizards and maybe human younglings, but she does nothing for me. Like that would make a difference in my reaction to her political views anyway.

If I understand you correctly, your main justification is the legality of her proposals. It's against the Constitution.

“I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and Constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.”
-Thomas Jefferson

What's your interpretation of this?

[Annoyed]

If I understand you correctly, your main justification is the legality of her proposals. It's against the Constitution.

“I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and Constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.”
-Thomas Jefferson

What's your interpretation of this?

We aren't, and were never intended to be a socialist nation. That's not what we were formed as, and not what we are. She is just gonna stomp her feet and hold her breath 'cause that's what she wants it to be. As a said, a child.

[Chaka-Z0]

We aren't, and were never intended to be a socialist nation. That's not what we were formed as, and not what we are. She is just gonna stomp her feet and hold her breath 'cause that's what she wants it to be. As a said, a child.

Socialism :

Spoiler:

a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

Not socialism. Stop using that term it isn't the right one.

I recall you:
1- praising the FF like Gods: but you disagree with the guy who actually wrote the damn DoI?

2- Insisting that Trump political agenda was to help ''the working stiff'' and the middle class. Trump actually helped the 1 percenters and big corps, giving 'em fiscal candies, and when someone shows up to do something about it you're vehemently voicing your disagreement.

You just said that she doesn't bring anything to you, directly. Her program would actually bring more to you, in concrete, tangible MONEY terms, than any of the recent POTUS.

Can we agree now that you're not against her because of her program, but because of what/who she is and or represents?

[jelgate]

We aren't, and were never intended to be a socialist nation. That's not what we were formed as, and not what we are. She is just gonna stomp her feet and hold her breath 'cause that's what she wants it to be. As a said, a child.

I think you described Trump

[Annoyed]

Socialism :

Spoiler:

a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

Not socialism. Stop using that term it isn't the right one.

I recall you:
1- praising the FF like Gods: but you disagree with the guy who actually wrote the damn DoI?

2- Insisting that Trump political agenda was to help ''the working stiff'' and the middle class. Trump actually helped the 1 percenters and big corps, giving 'em fiscal candies, and when someone shows up to do something about it you're vehemently voicing your disagreement.

You just said that she doesn't bring anything to you, directly. Her program would actually bring more to you, in concrete, tangible MONEY terms, than any of the recent POTUS.

Can we agree now that you're not against her because of her program, but because of what/who she is and or represents?

Look at unemployment numbers, and the job picture since Trump took office. Record low unemployment, and as a result, wages are rising for the first time in DECADES as employers have to outbid each other for workers. That benefits the avg. working stiff.

Yes, some of Trump's changes do benefit the wealthy, but that is not the only group that have benefited.

The tax reform package definitely benefits the avg working stiff, I can say that for certainty because I benefit from it.

Now, look at the kindergarten star, Ocasio-Cortez. She basically wants to forcibly take from people who have worked for what they have earned and have a nice give-away to benefit a large number of people who don't even work to better themselves. Free everything! Hell, even a lot of Democrats tell her to shut up, she's too radical.

This young skull full of mush actually had the stupidity to compare global warming to World War II yesterday. Really, WWII?

Even the term "idiot" is too generous for her.