The Political Discussion Thread

[SoulReaver]

You got that in quotes? Cite a reputable source, please.

I'm gonna cite Fox News
https://www.foxnews.com/world/presid...china-proposal

Quote one for anything you say.

he's gonna cite Fox News

[jelgate]

He'll probably quote some conspiracy theory opinion and when we call him out on it, he will whine about media bias

[Chaka-Z0]

Rep. Tlaib wrote a letter to Israeli officials desperately wanting to visit her grandmother. Permission was quickly granted, whereupon Tlaib obnoxiously turned the approval down, a complete setup. The only real winner here is Tlaib’s grandmother. She doesn’t have to see her now!

What kind of scum insults grandma? That crime deserves the capital punishment.

[Annoyed]

I'm gonna cite Fox News
https://www.foxnews.com/world/presid...china-proposal

he's gonna cite Fox News

Reading the article you provided, he wasn't talking about the US presidency, he was talking about China's, while trying to play diplomat.

[Chaka-Z0]

Reading the article you provided, he wasn't talking about the US presidency, he was talking about China's, while trying to play diplomat.

[magi877]

Err, no.

you said neither capitalism nor socialism was the answer, then you described a meshing together of workers and populations, the govt and corporations

that is fascism, or 'fascism lite' as you left out a dictator and the subjective ideals of nationalism.

of course a dictator doesn't have to be one person and nationalism can be replaced by another ideological tool

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/fascism

fascism[ fash-iz-uh?m ]

(sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
(sometimes initial capital letter) the philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism.
(initial capital letter) a political movement that employs the principles and methods of fascism, especially the one established by Mussolini in Italy 1922–43.

[magi877]

Don't mistake me for a supporter of those candidates, I am by no means one and I agree with all of this, which is why I strongly believe as well that religion has no place in politics.



https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...00480681287683

Political influence to pull strings on an allied nation, unprecedented AFAIK in US history. Let's not play on words man, that's a ''if you don't do it that would be unfortunate for you''. Hours after this tweet, they are barred. Order is obviously an exaggeration from my part.



If you recall I actually told Womble we should hear your arguments, because I agree with you. Although I'll point out that most people are afraid to speak out against religion for fear of being considered haters, just like closet Trump supporters.

If I recall Womble didn't take kindly to your posts which sometimes are taken as slander by some, including me. But I think we are alike you and in in that regard, we are impulsive passionate people that sometimes don't always mean what they say, or say it the wrong way. Would that be a fair assessment?

yes, i think we have similar beliefs

as for israel and its behavior as a nation, it has been less than stellar from its inception and if it were any other nation acting like this, it would finding itself in the 'crosshairs' of more nations then just its Arab neighbors

again, i cite the old South Africa with apartheid

i really do not find any difference in the 'islamic nation of.." countries and 'the jewish state of israel' and the lack of liberty they all show towards their minorites whether they be ethnic, social or religious minorities

in fact places like Saddams Iraq and Syria allow more freedom for religious and ethnic minorities then does Israel
----

and the Tweet from trump

first though, this whole Presidential tweeting thing has been a ridiculous spectacle from the start.

he should have never done it as president and the media should have never given legitimacy to it by reporting on it

twitter is a perfect platform for showboat narcissists who need a quick attention 'fix'. this is trump

now that tweet about israel

the 'be a shame if anything happened to your beautiful house' type of thing

yes, he sent it, but the law israel has that does not allow boycott supporters or those who have expressed discontent over israel has been in effect for a few years now

in fact, 26 US states have passed some legislation, that requires what amounts to a type of loyalty to israel oath for employment in certain jobs. it prevents employees from participating or supporting the boycott israel movement

Omar was speaking out against this law early on, one of the first times she got some negative attn was over this. I do agree with her on it, probably the only thing i agree with from her

https://www.commondreams.org/news/20...oses-job-texas

the 26 states that have some form of this law, in red. 13 others proposing it in blue:

pll-1544914724-e1545064534779-1024x762.jpg

[magi877]

Shocking!

Australian farmers making over $95 million (us) a year from supplying opium to the drug industry!

fueling the prescription opioid abuse epidemic here and elsewhere

these fields should be a target in the "war on drugs 2.0"

'napalm over Tasmania'

[Gatefan1976]

you said neither capitalism nor socialism was the answer, then you described a meshing together of workers and populations, the govt and corporations

that is fascism, or 'fascism lite' as you left out a dictator and the subjective ideals of nationalism.

In other word's, I deliberately left out fascism.

of course a dictator doesn't have to be one person and nationalism can be replaced by another ideological tool

Umm, yes, a DICTATOR is an individual, unless you are talking communism, which I did not mention at all.
As for nationalism, why would I want something I desperately loathe?

I never said there was no room for difference, you can have oppositional forces discussing the best way to move forward, Commerce and economics stays it's own beast, as do the workers.
When they work together (government, industry and workforce), after a considered plan, they work best.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/fascism

fascism[ fash-iz-uh?m ]

(sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
(sometimes initial capital letter) the philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism.
(initial capital letter) a political movement that employs the principles and methods of fascism, especially the one established by Mussolini in Italy 1922–43.

Your comparison fails on it's first point.

[Gatefan1976]

Shocking!

Australian farmers making over $95 million (us) a year from supplying opium to the drug industry!

fueling the prescription opioid abuse epidemic here and elsewhere

these fields should be a target in the "war on drugs 2.0"

'napalm over Tasmania'

The only shocking thing is how much the farmers are getting undercut by the criminal cartels.

[Womble]

Lol!!!

Are you really going to ignore today's big news? Trump personally ordering Israel to bar the 2 Dems candidated exactly because their political views are different?.

Are you that much of an hypocrite Annoyed?

It's somewhat hilarious that these "news" were even worth discussing. But I guess it's one of those man-bites-dog moment. Israel doing to US what the US has for decades been doing to Israel is always somehow a scandal.

In case nobody knew that the US routinely bars Israelis from entering based on their political views or origin, here's some reminders:

In March 2019, Israeli cybersecurity expert Prof. Adi Shamir of the Weizmann Institute was denied a US visa and was unable to attend a security conference in San Francisco.

In 2018, the Israeli singer Amir Benayoun was invited to sing at the UN International Holocaust Remembrance Day ceremony. Benayoun’s visa request was initially denied when it was publicized that one of the singer’s songs clearly expressed his opposition to the Obama administration.

In 2012, the US government refused to issue an entry visa to Member of Knesset Michael Ben Ari. Ben Ari is indeed on the far-right of Israeli politics and made some controversial statements before, yet back in 2012, he was an elected representative of the State of Israel who was denied entry to the US.

In 2003, Rita, one of Israel’s most famous artists who immigrated to Israel from Iran, was planning a US concert tour when she was notified that her Iranian background was enough for the US government to deny her entry visa.

Honestly, I didn't care if Tlaib and Omar were or weren't allowed into Israel. Israel was well within its rights to allow or disallow their entry. It would not have been a show of weakness to let them in, neither would it be some kind of gross violation of something or other to keep them out. It's stuff the USA and European countries do all the bloody time.

What I do have a problem with is the flip-flopping at Trump's first tweet. The current non-government living on borrowed time (elections in just a few weeks, folks) is utterly dysfunctional, and Netanyahu degenerated from a statesman into a bad comedy character. But "today's big news"? Seriously?

[magi877]

In other word's, I deliberately left out fascism.

Umm, yes, a DICTATOR is an individual, unless you are talking communism, which I did not mention at all.
As for nationalism, why would I want something I desperately loathe?

I never said there was no room for difference, you can have oppositional forces discussing the best way to move forward, Commerce and economics stays it's own beast, as do the workers.
When they work together (government, industry and workforce), after a considered plan, they work best.


Your comparison fails on it's first point.

as i said, you left out mention of a dictator. and, a dictator led govt does not need to be one person. it could be a cabal, or a junta, or even a council.

if it acts with dictatorial behavior, it is one.

and you cant just describe something you would like to see = "Commerce and economics stays it's own beast, as do the workers.
When they work together (government, industry and workforce), after a considered plan, they work best."

which, is a loose definition of fascism, and nothing else. then 'walk away' ,leaving your fantasy idea undefined with you free to deny that it is -ism 'X,Y or Z' when others here try to define it

name your system, what is it you would like to see? or give and example from history

[magi877]

The only shocking thing is how much the farmers are getting undercut by the criminal cartels.

you are ignoring the fact that your countrymen are the source (%50 of world supply) of a drug that is killing people worldwide and profiting from it

your glibness on the matter is disturbing

opioids kill people; ban opioids. no one needs to use these drugs except perhaps those in great need, like cancer patients

Australians should do something to stop their country from being one of the single largest exporters of this poison

[Annoyed]

opioids kill people; ban opioids. no one needs to use these drugs except perhaps those in great need, like cancer patients

It's knee-jerk reactions like that that are the real problem with the "opioid problem".

Opioids are among the best painkillers we have, and can dramatically improve the comfort level of people dealing with pain, either temporary or chronic long-term.

But the outcry over the ILLEGAL use of these drugs is going to make it far more difficult for patients with legitimate needs for these drugs to get them as doctors become leery of prescribing them for fear of lawsuits, etc.

After all, you can't really stop the illegal use, so we settle for making it harder to get them for legitimate needs just so we can pat ourselves on the back and say we're doing something about it.

It's the same damned situation as with gun control. You're not going to stop the criminal element from using them, they don't care what laws you pass, so might was well punish the law-abiding gun owners.

[Chaka-Z0]

It's somewhat hilarious that these "news" were even worth discussing. But I guess it's one of those man-bites-dog moment. Israel doing to US what the US has for decades been doing to Israel is always somehow a scandal.

In case nobody knew that the US routinely bars Israelis from entering based on their political views or origin, here's some reminders:

In March 2019, Israeli cybersecurity expert Prof. Adi Shamir of the Weizmann Institute was denied a US visa and was unable to attend a security conference in San Francisco.

In 2018, the Israeli singer Amir Benayoun was invited to sing at the UN International Holocaust Remembrance Day ceremony. Benayoun’s visa request was initially denied when it was publicized that one of the singer’s songs clearly expressed his opposition to the Obama administration.

In 2012, the US government refused to issue an entry visa to Member of Knesset Michael Ben Ari. Ben Ari is indeed on the far-right of Israeli politics and made some controversial statements before, yet back in 2012, he was an elected representative of the State of Israel who was denied entry to the US.

In 2003, Rita, one of Israel’s most famous artists who immigrated to Israel from Iran, was planning a US concert tour when she was notified that her Iranian background was enough for the US government to deny her entry visa.

Honestly, I didn't care if Tlaib and Omar were or weren't allowed into Israel. Israel was well within its rights to allow or disallow their entry. It would not have been a show of weakness to let them in, neither would it be some kind of gross violation of something or other to keep them out. It's stuff the USA and European countries do all the bloody time.

What I do have a problem with is the flip-flopping at Trump's first tweet. The current non-government living on borrowed time (elections in just a few weeks, folks) is utterly dysfunctional, and Netanyahu degenerated from a statesman into a bad comedy character. But "today's big news"? Seriously?

Because something is within the country's right doesn't make it okay. All you need is a law that says it is.

As for those cases barred from the US, those people were most likely denied entry for national security reasons. Israel is not an ally of the west, I'd say it is a friend of convenience.

Individuals working for a foreign state entity are not admitted in, simply put, unless that country is in the 5eyes. One of your guys listed is some crypto expert, not much of a stretch to think he might be, didn't check the rest. Do you really think those guys run free and aren't monitored? Especially in a tightly controlled country such as Israel.

In the west here you could only be refused visas if you're a criminal, a spy / known spy or a radical. We'll never know why but there is probably a good reason.