The Political Discussion Thread

[Gatefan1976]

The lame duck thing was set back during reagan's era iirc..

It is only supposed to be the last 3 months, so just prior to election day and when the new POTUS takes office, which makes sense to a degree, NOT a whole quarter of a term.

[Annoyed]

iirc the 9th circuit is also the court in charge of defending citizens' civil liberties right?
defending the commoner's rights vs the Elites Establishment government etc.

man are the american commonfolk about to suffer (can't wait till that happens)

No, the court system as a whole is responsible for that. The 9th Circuit covers a geographic area, mostly the 3 left coast states we would be better off without anyway, and a few others.

https://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/judicia...th_circuit.php

[Gatefan1976]

You prefer the 5th circuit, which is totally right wing.

[SoulReaver]

No, the court system as a whole is responsible for that. The 9th Circuit covers a geographic area, mostly the 3 left coast states we would be better off without anyway, and a few others.

https://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/judicia...th_circuit.php

k I didn't know the numbers were a geographical thing (I thought they were hierarchical or something - the 9th circuit is often associated with cases involving civil liberties where they side with the victim, gotta be a reason for that)

[Annoyed]

k I didn't know the numbers were a geographical thing (I thought they were hierarchical or something - the 9th circuit is often associated with cases involving civil liberties where they side with the victim, gotta be a reason for that)

The reason is the 9th Circuit is bent so far to the left that it's kissing its own @$$.

[Gatefan1976]

k I didn't know the numbers were a geographical thing (I thought they were hierarchical or something - the 9th circuit is often associated with cases involving civil liberties where they side with the victim, gotta be a reason for that)

People often file in the 9th because it is 2/3rds liberal for social issues, that's your reasoning. Same deal with the 5th circuit being a place where you go for conservative issues because it is basically the south. Both sides go judge shopping.

[Gatefan1976]

The reason is the 9th Circuit is bent so far to the left that it's kissing its own @$$.

And the 5th sucks it's own barrel.

[Gatefan1976]

But you just said they're lowering the standards for women and minorities. You're clearly strongly opposed to them being hired.

That leaves you with your white men.



But you want a more serious answer?

Hang on, hold your water horses for a moment.
I think we are conflating issues a bit here. Annoyed has never stated that someone should or should not get a job based on XYZ, I have to defend him on that point in a very narrow role. What I -think- the problem is will be revealed shortly, so keep reading, ok?

You know, you really ought to come out of that self-imposed black hole of ignorance you live in.

If PH lives in a black hole, you live in another damn dimension, so don't even try.

I've said this many times. I don't care what race or gender a person is. If they can pass the tests a job requires, I have no objection whatsoever to anyone doing whatever job they are qualified for. But it is wrong, as well as detrimental to whatever profession you want to talk about to lower the bar for certain people.

Here is where you start to go sideways. This is not about "lowering a bar" it is about recognizing that there is no "baseline" in the way you seem to believe that there is. I'll give you a good example.
Two people go for a job, they have the exact same qualifications and physical ability. By your own reasoning, BOTH should have an equal chance of getting the job, right?

What if one was called Henry, and one was called Hassan?
Chances are, Henry gets the job, not based on any level of skill, but because he is not Hassan.
That is discrimination 101.
This, THIS is what you do not get or care about, this is the evil "white male privilege" you feel does not exist, BUT IT DOES.
We almost instinctively favour those who are "like us", and most people doing the hiring or firing are white men.
Being a white man is not the issue, it is that stupid instinct.

The issue is that agencies are LOWERING the standard, deliberately allowing people who cannot pass the tests that everyone else has to pass in order allow minorities who do not qualify for the job to do it anyway.

And what do you call a system that allows systemic racism by allowing less qualified men or whites to get the job? Or the University slot?
You look at the 20% "non white, non male" government grants, but ignore that without that directive, Non whites and non males would get ZERO of the grants, not because the non white males are incapable, but because the system would not care. You DO understand that even giving people 20% that don't look like you STILL gives those who do 80% of them, right?
"Why do we need a black history month, that's racist!!"
Because 11 months are all about white history, WE don't NEED a month, WE have most of the year anyway, same as Woman's history month.

PH -Might- be slightly "out of line" by claiming you only care about white men, but *******, you have no clue why people say that in the first place. You see everything as an "attack on your group", and that is simply not true. I'm a WHITE MAN, I'm as white as you get, and as male as you get, and I am simply not threatened by these things, not because I am "ashamed" of my white maleness, but because I realise that simply by virtue of my colour and gender (which I had no control over) means absolutely nothing -to me-, but it DOES mean something to the world we live in, and it is an ADVANTAGE. I get "points" for being James rather than Jamie, and I get points for being white rather than black.
Why is this distinction so hard for people to grasp?

[Gatefan1976]

What would trumps grandfather say?
Damn prick was a illegal immigrant, should have kicked him out, he was a 'UGE risk to 'MURRICA!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlNJKCoqvbc

Tell me Annoyed or Garkhal, Are you guys Illegal aliens?
Should time stop for you, but not others?
Why should it?

[Falcon Horus]

My objection is that many agencies, such as fire departments (for example) are lowering the standards because they can't find enough women (for example) who both want the job and can pass the required tests. So their solution is to relax the standards for whatever minority group they're trying to please at the time (women, for example) so that UNQUALIFIED people are admitted to the program.

You do realize that standards were never lowered, right?

The scoring system might have changed but the CPAT-test in the USA is still very much the same as it always has been. Going over the time limit, and thus run out of oxygen, doesn't automatically mean the end of the dream. It just means, you have to go back and try again.

I went looking for the possible culprit about this lowering of standards and found an article from a few years back of a woman who failed the CPAT test and wasn't cut from the fire academy and even made it to firefighter. She apparently scored higher than anyone else on her written exams, but failed the 10 minute CPAT test.
2 other women, by the way, in that same group of 315 probies completed the course succesfully. 15 other recruits failed one part of the test and had to redo the whole thing, but in the end they all passed.

The woman in the above story, had already previously sued because of age limits, so I have to conclude she's one to want in even though she isn't entirely qualified for the job. Someone who hadn't realized her dreamjob was in fact unattainable.

The fireman, I previously mentioned in one of my posts, was originally training to be Special Forces in the army, but due to an accident with a fellow soldier who dropped him when setting up a tent. He shattered his knee on a concrete block, that dream shattered along with it. That was quite the blow, until he picked himself up again and steered into a different direction.

The CPAT-test for the US, and the physical tests for the UK, and the ones for Belgium.

[Gatefan1976]

He said he doesn't want the standards lowering for women and minorities, he's suggesting they're not as capable. Therefore the majority of those hired in Annoyed's world would be white men.

Not out of line at all.

You cut the guts out of my point, so whatever PH, you are being as obtuse as Annoyed, well done.
You are as bad as Annoyed, congratulations.

[Gatefan1976]

You cut the guts out of my point, so whatever PH, you are being as obtuse as Annoyed, well done.
You are as bad as Annoyed, congratulations.

This might as well be deleted as well, it no longer has context.
EDIT:
Oh, I see what is going on, fine.

[Annoyed]

This, THIS is what you do not get or care about, this is the evil "white male privilege" you feel does not exist, BUT IT DOES.
We almost instinctively favour those who are "like us", and most people doing the hiring or firing are white men.
Being a white man is not the issue, it is that stupid instinct.

You point out the reason right there. I don't buy into that. There are plenty of "Hassans" in the company I work for. The top management of the company also includes a lot of females. My immediate boss is female.
I can look around me every day and see examples of minorities achieving the highest levels in the workplace. So, no, I don't buy the "white privilege" argument.

[Gatefan1976]

You point out the reason right there. I don't buy into that. There are plenty of "Hassans" in the company I work for. The top management of the company also includes a lot of females. My immediate boss is female.
I can look around me every day and see examples of minorities achieving the highest levels in the workplace. So, no, I don't buy the "white privilege" argument.

So, because where you work has Hassan's and chicks, everywhere else does?
How was it back when you were a mechanic?

Minorities -can- make it to the top, no doubt, but it is not as easy as it would be for you or me.

[Annoyed]

So, because where you work has Hassan's and chicks, everywhere else does?
How was it back when you were a mechanic?

Minorities -can- make it to the top, no doubt, but it is not as easy as it would be for you or me.

That trade was fairly well diversified even back then. At one point, I worked at a shop where I was the only white employee.
I seriously doubt the discrimination issue is anywhere near as prevalent as some folks would have you believe.

Of course, the folks who would have you believe that have a vested interest in perpetuating the belief. Maybe that's why they keep pushing it?