The Political Discussion Thread

[Falcon Horus]

Can go either way in the US.

I remembered our guys talking about unloading our props for the Celebration conventions. They are never allowed to do that in the US. That's always done by workers.
They can do what they like with them once outside the containers but for the unloading part they have to step aside (and we load them ourselves so that's always a bit ridiculous).

Trump wants to change it to merit-based; the potential immigrant must benefit the U.S. And he's right. Why should we allow someone to migrate here simply to hop onto the welfare system's free-ride train? They can go into their native country's welfare program.

Well, in the US might find jobs and not have to be on the welfare program, while in their own countries they are more likely to starf to death, get killed in a drugwar or because they wear the wrong color shirt or are the wrong religion, or the wrong color.

Nevertheless, no more seasonal workers from Haiti from now on. They can no longer apply for short-term workvisas.
I hope, the Americans are ready to do their own "dirty" jobs.

[Annoyed]

You understand that any skilled migrant will take your jobs as well, right?

I was talking about Trump's ideas about this. I don't agree with him on everything. If I had my way, immigration levels would be kept low until all domestic employment needs are met. If this means the company has to retrain workers at their expense, so be it, but they should not be able to import workers to take those jobs. Particularly when as has been seen with Microsoft and other large companies, they are simply firing qualified domestic workers to hire green card / etc. immigrants at lower wages.

[Gatefan1976]

I was talking about Trump's ideas about this.

Trump has NO idea's, he gets spoon-fed bull****.

I don't agree with him on everything. If I had my way, immigration levels would be kept low until all domestic employment needs are met.

You do realise that will never happen, right?

If this means the company has to retrain workers at their expense, so be it, but they should not be able to import workers to take those jobs. Particularly when as has been seen with Microsoft and other large companies, they are simply firing qualified domestic workers to hire green card / etc. immigrants at lower wages.

My my, how anti capitalist of you, you must be a Soros worshiping lefty............

[Gatefan1976]

You might not say that if the country has been moving in the wrong direction (according to you) for a few decades now....

Now that WE have entertained your notions, will you have the decorum to entertain ours?

[Annoyed]

Now that WE have entertained your notions, will you have the decorum to entertain ours?

Not sure what you're asking here. I'm saying that because we've been moving in the wrong direction for several decades, including under Republican administrations, (hence the term RINO), people of my viewpoint might be more willing to accept someone like Trump, warts and all because it's the only shot we have of moving in the right direction.

[jelgate]

That argument didn't work last time you presented it. It makes no sense to choose a crazy person just because you don't like the way things are going politically

[aretood2]

They do here. Really, over here, they glare at you if you dare suggest you help out.

Not here in the US from my father's experience. He did a stint as a driver for a few months and then decided to go back to agriculture. Let that fact sink in for a minute...

Trump wants to change it to merit-based; the potential immigrant must benefit the U.S. And he's right. Why should we allow someone to migrate here simply to hop onto the welfare system's free-ride train? They can go into their native country's welfare program.

You remember the saying "If it ain't broken, don't fix it"? Well...who said it's broken? Immigrants who come here more often than not get jobs and pay taxes. So you're pretty much asking for a solution to a problem that really isn't as big of a problem as there is. And it seems to me that the more logical solution is to make it fix the welfare system instead of going after immigration. Unless of course the issue really isn't about welfare...

He also wants to end chain migration; where one person obtains legal status and then brings in a few carloads of relatives. That's a good idea too.

No. First you all claim that it's about illegal immigrants who willfully break the law and come here. Then after that you all start to claim that it doesn't matter if one willfully broke the law, just the mere fact of being here illegally is enough to get kicked out (That is, the DACA people). Then you don't stop there, then you move on to temporary work visas given to legal immigrants, you want to end that. Now it's this "Chain Migration" term you've invented (A very anti-life term...or should I say pro-choice?) claiming that some how it is wrong to bring families together while claiming that the GOP is about family values. Then what is your next step? Good old traditional immigration, you want to end that too. And I only ask, what comes after your so called "Merit based" immigration? Wait, you already said it, virtually no immigration at all because you set this impossible fantasy of "full employment".

Yeah, the GOP is full blown anti immigrant. And Trump has done a wonderful job of proving that. And so have you and those who support him.

Not sure what you're asking here. I'm saying that because we've been moving in the wrong direction for several decades, including under Republican administrations, (hence the term RINO), people of my viewpoint might be more willing to accept someone like Trump, warts and all because it's the only shot we have of moving in the right direction.

You had 15 other options in the primaries. You have no real excuse.

[Gatefan1976]

Not sure what you're asking here. I'm saying that because we've been moving in the wrong direction for several decades, including under Republican administrations, (hence the term RINO), people of my viewpoint might be more willing to accept someone like Trump, warts and all because it's the only shot we have of moving in the right direction.

I thought it would be pretty obvious.
You asked people to put themselves in your shoes, so I did, put yourself in mine.

[Falcon Horus]

If I had my way, immigration levels would be kept low until all domestic employment needs are met.

Notwithstanding that Walmart, Carrier, ... and other companies are currently laying workers off, not hire them.
Little to do with migrants coming in to fill jobs.

...in the right direction.

The bold being the important word here.

So, does that mean, you agree doctors and nurses should be able to refuse to aid people they have religious and moral objects to -- in the name of religious freedom and all.
Notwithstanding, the oath they took when they became doctors and nurses...

Trump move on healthcare religious freedom prompts discrimination fears

Is that the right direction for you? Someone deciding whether they want to help you or not because of who you are or what procedure you had done?

Cause there's a slippery slope there that makes you look like an even greater backwards nation.

Not here in the US from my father's experience. He did a stint as a driver for a few months and then decided to go back to agriculture. Let that fact sink in for a minute...

I see...

And I only ask, what comes after your so called "Merit based" immigration? Wait, you already said it, virtually no immigration at all because you set this impossible fantasy of "full employment".

Norwegians are very welcome -- even though migration from Norway to America is less than from America to Norway.

[Gatefan1976]

Why would a Norwegian want to go to a backwards ****hole like America?
No healthcare
No childcare
No infrastructure

[Annoyed]

I thought it would be pretty obvious.
You asked people to put themselves in your shoes, so I did, put yourself in mine.

I can understand your outrage. You're seeing changes that you consider absolutely wrong being pushed through by someone whom you don't consider fit to hold the office.

But if I were in your shoes (or more specifically, Lefty voters in the US) I would be attacking the leadership of the Democratic party, wanting a wholesale change in leadership. Out for blood, as they say.

If they hadn't rigged the game so that Hilary was their candidate in 2016, I think Sanders would have won comfortably. But I haven't seen a lot of news about the party leadership accepting the blame for the loss. If I was a lefty, I would be going after the hides of the party management for that.

[Annoyed]

The bold being the important word here.

So, does that mean, you agree doctors and nurses should be able to refuse to aid people they have religious and moral objects to -- in the name of religious freedom and all.
Notwithstanding, the oath they took when they became doctors and nurses...

What about the other oath they took.. "First, do no harm". Abortion certainly does harm.
You phrase it as "refusing to aid".
They are not withholding aid that would save the patients life or treat injuries. They simply don't want to be penalized for adhering to their own beliefs, such as abortion being wrong, for example.

In a way. it's similar to the bakery / cake case; these folks want their rights (to unfettered abortion, for example) placed above the rights of the service provider to behave according to their beliefs. They should not be forced to provide services that are against their beliefs.

[Coco Pops]

Yeah exactly what is this "right direction" that you want America to go in?

Please define this in bullet points

[Ian-S]

I don't recall Australia being bankrupt, or did you mean the UK?

Is Carillain a UK corporation? What kind of things did they run?

Yes I meant UK, no idea about Aus but if you look at most Countries budgets they run at a deficit, which in business terms means insolvent, aside from a few good years in the late 90's the UK has been running a loss since the Second World War. If we were a business we'd have been wound up years ago.

Carillain is a UK company yes, but they have contracts all over the world, chances are if you have a local big construction project, it's run by Carillain.

Carillain had many UK government contracts (450+) they do all sorts from cleaning schools to building hospitals, what they did was they would tender for and usually win a contract (say to build a hospital) then sub-contract the operation of that contract out to another supplier, usually a local business, but what seems to have happened is they paid themselves too much, and in some cases like the Liverpool Hospital, the work has fallen behind schedule and they pay a fine for each week that goes on, essentially they acted as a broker between the Government and local sub-contractors and simply spent too much money. They were also heavily involved in PFI (Public Finance Iniative), where say the Government wanted a hospital built, Carillain would build it for them, and the Government would then rent back the Hospital from Carillain on a fixed term rent of 30, 50 or 100 year leases, so long term Carillain would make a lot of money, but initially they would have to pay for the building themselves.

It's actually a crap scheme and costs the public an awful lot more than had the Government simply borrowed the money and built the hospital themselves, but such is the nuttiness of the U.K. Government they don't want any public projects on the public accounts.

[LtColCarter]

Why would a Norwegian want to go to a backwards ****hole like America?
No healthcare
No childcare
No infrastructure

Not that it concerns you...but I lost a ton of respect for you. While my country isn't headed in the right direction, I will still defend her. Will I defend the man in the White House? No...he defines what is wrong with this country.