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  1. #1
    First Lieutenant Nth Chevron's Avatar
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    Default A theory on Destiny, Seeder ships and the Gates they drop

    In 'Awakening' as they approach the Seed ship, Rush mentions that there are many Seeder ships ahead of Destiny, dropping gates on planets along the way, some habitable, some not, some with resources on them and some with nothing. there has been many mentions on these boards about their being more to the Stargate's than resupply and leg stretching.

    These Seed ships are all heading in the same direction, not many in different directions, as they can change their course as long as they have a semi-sentient AI running them, to suit the course needed for the CMB mission. I wondered why they would need 'many', which admittedly is an indeterminate number, but lets assume a round number of 10, the actual number is irrelevant.

    We then have 10 Seed ships plus Destiny heading along the same course to reach the same point, where they may not be stars or even planets on which to plant a gate or even establish a settlement.

    We know Destiny was built to accommodate a sizeable number of people, Ancient or otherwise. We know Destiny and 'possibly' the Seed ships have semi-sentient AI cores for various reasons, most of which we dont know and what we do know is pretty much speculation at this point.

    My theory is, that, if Destiny and these 10 Seed ships are all heading to a single point, or area of convergence, then this entails massive power reserves, we know Stargates utilise power from the off-world gate once connected, so this means they could have almost unlimited power, with Seed ships heading off to obtain more from stars as needed, to maintain a connection to any dialling Stargate for a quick arrival.

    What if all these ships are meant to converge and utilise their power reserves to bring the Ancients from the Milky Way to the possible source of the CMB structure for study. Destiny has the living space if no planet is available, other gates are spread out for supply gathering on any one of ten possible Seed ships or Destiny itself.

    Maybe the Ancients never intended to travel aboard Destiny, but wait until they all converged and could then gate directly to the source of the CMB, using Destiny as a mobile research base and living quarters.

    If insufficient power exists in the Milky Way to bring the Ancients straight to Destiny, then there is potentially hundreds of thousands of gates along the course to use as 'Midway' points.

    The Seed ships also contain massive foundries for Stargate construction, maybe they could be reconfigured for other purposes, thus giving the Ancients almost anything they needed.

    The only problem i have, is how Destiny would signal the Ancients in the Milky Way to let them know Destiny is ready and at the point to receive them.

    What do you guys think?

    N.C

  2. #2
    Staff Sergeant
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    Default Re: A theory on Destiny, Seeder ships and the Gates they drop

    There is no "Source" of CBR like the show is positing, that it is being continuously broadcast from really far away. There's no where you could observe it better by going to it, it is coming from everywhere, and you can only observe the original 'structure' coming from a particular location from very far away. This is because the universe didn't expand from one location we can pin point but every point has moved away from each other. Thus, someone where Destiny is pointing their instruments back towards earth would get just as much info about the CBR as we can get from pointing them towards Destiny. The information you want is no longer where it started and not still emanating from it so going towards a space will not help at all. Ultimately, the way to get the whole picture is to develop a tool that lets you analyze the radiation coming from the absolute farthest point in space relative to your own, and you could use it anywhere with no need to go halfway across the universe, which will just give you the same information anyway.

    So, really, this whole idea of the show makes absolutely zero sense.

  3. #3
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: A theory on Destiny, Seeder ships and the Gates they drop

    I wondered why they would need 'many', which admittedly is an indeterminate number, but lets assume a round number of 10, the actual number is irrelevant.
    because destiny can explore the planets faster than any one seed ship could seed and build gates. lots of Seed ships do their task, spreading gates and gathering information.

  4. #4
    First Lieutenant Nth Chevron's Avatar
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    Default Re: A theory on Destiny, Seeder ships and the Gates they drop

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    because destiny can explore the planets faster than any one seed ship could seed and build gates. lots of Seed ships do their task, spreading gates and gathering information.
    This is a good point which i had considered, we know Destiny was launched after the Seed ships, we dont know how long the gap was, if it was a small gap then that explains the presence of more than one Seed ship, if the gap was a long time then it doesnt really make much sense considering the amount of gates to check whilst they were catching up with the Seed ship.

    Nor does it make sense as to why some planets are devoid of almost anything valuable to an expedition aboard the Destiny, admittedly, some may have been verdant pastures when the gates were dropped and their climates have thus shifted.

    We saw on the Seed ship in 'Awakening' that there alot of gates stored on the Seed ship, so if the Seed ship held say 100, and replaced gates to keep the number at 100, then 1 Seed ship with a buffer amount of gates could drop them faster than Destiny could explore and catch up, taking into account time spent for through exploration which the Ancients liked to do.

    N.C

  5. #5
    Major General
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    Default Re: A theory on Destiny, Seeder ships and the Gates they drop

    It would be interesting if each seed ship and the destiny itself held the key to a supergate..

  6. #6
    Captain Jeffer's Avatar
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    Default Re: A theory on Destiny, Seeder ships and the Gates they drop

    Perhaps they send out seed ships for diff galaxy's. So each seed ship would get 5 err so galaxy's
    Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side and a dark side and it holds the universe together

  7. #7
    Captain wolverine_nl's Avatar
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    Default Re: A theory on Destiny, Seeder ships and the Gates they drop

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffer View Post
    Perhaps they send out seed ships for diff galaxy's. So each seed ship would get 5 err so galaxy's
    Then Destiny would travel through allot of galaxies not in 1 line, that would be strange, but possible.
    I got the impression they are traveling in 1 almost straight path.

  8. #8
    First Lieutenant Ed's Avatar
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    Default Re: A theory on Destiny, Seeder ships and the Gates they drop

    well we know seed ships transmit data back so perhaps they are more than just seeder they are also scout ships plotting the course.

    The other advantage of this would be a seed ship can check an area for danger if the seeder is lost its a shame but its not as bad as losing destiny.

  9. #9
    Ranch Hand Python's Avatar
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    Default Re: A theory on Destiny, Seeder ships and the Gates they drop

    Did the show actually say that they were going out to the "source" of the CMB? Man, just one episode of Horizon or Nova would've told them that doesn't make sense. Unless they're trying to travel back in time to the Big Bang.

    Which... would be awesome... wait a minute, maybe that's the reason they're seeding so many gates? Like what Ba'al did in Continuum but on an intergalactic scale. They're really constructing a super-large time travel device that could take them back to the beginning of the universe.

    Except that there would have to be a gate for them to exit out of... and that would actually be logical if faster-than-light travel in the show followed relativity theory and not some imagined "real time subspace." If Destiny had been traveling FTL for a million years seeding ships along the way, then with a powerful enough telescope, one might actually be able to see Destiny from Earth, millions of light years away and millions of years in the past. They're so far away, they may not have realized that they're time traveling.

    We do know that Stargate has the balls to do at least one relativity-grounded episode per series ("A Matter of Time" in SG-1 and "The Return" in SGA). Could they be ready to ground a whole series on it?

  10. #10
    Rattata
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    Default Re: A theory on Destiny, Seeder ships and the Gates they drop

    Quote Originally Posted by Python View Post
    Did the show actually say that they were going out to the "source" of the CMB? Man, just one episode of Horizon or Nova would've told them that doesn't make sense. Unless they're trying to travel back in time to the Big Bang.

    Which... would be awesome... wait a minute, maybe that's the reason they're seeding so many gates? Like what Ba'al did in Continuum but on an intergalactic scale. They're really constructing a super-large time travel device that could take them back to the beginning of the universe.

    Except that there would have to be a gate for them to exit out of... and that would actually be logical if faster-than-light travel in the show followed relativity theory and not some imagined "real time subspace." If Destiny had been traveling FTL for a million years seeding ships along the way, then with a powerful enough telescope, one might actually be able to see Destiny from Earth, millions of light years away and millions of years in the past. They're so far away, they may not have realized that they're time traveling.

    We do know that Stargate has the balls to do at least one relativity-grounded episode per series ("A Matter of Time" in SG-1 and "The Return" in SGA). Could they be ready to ground a whole series on it?

    Except stones are realtime...

    Or do you mean that the stones are translating the time difference?

  11. #11
    Rattata
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    Default Re: A theory on Destiny, Seeder ships and the Gates they drop

    I've always been a fan of the theory that the Seed ships flew ahead as scouts, to plot the course. I think that they are probably in a wall formation ahead of Destiny, so as Seed ships scan the CBR the course of the fleet adjusts. Seed ships then strategically fall behind to update Destiny with a new trajectory.

    Maybe the Seed ships are also so far out from each other that the updates go both ways and Destiny provides each Seed ship with an update on the status of the entire fleet... could lead to some interesting stories...

    It's also possible that it's this window that allowed the Ursini to get onboard a Seed ship (waiting for Destiny to dock... perhaps waiting longer than it was scheduled to thanks to our crew) and the Blueberries (good opportunity to get onboard).

    P.S. I'm implying an intergalactic distance in this fleet formation.... otherwise - why wouldn't the Seed ships just use subspace wi-fi to update Destiny the way that Stargates do?

  12. #12
    Ranch Hand Python's Avatar
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    Default Re: A theory on Destiny, Seeder ships and the Gates they drop

    Quote Originally Posted by thenimf View Post
    Or do you mean that the stones are translating the time difference?
    Yeah.
    I think that they are probably in a wall formation ahead of Destiny, so as Seed ships scan the CBR the course of the fleet adjusts.
    Except that, as Aesjos said earlier, background radiation is measured the same across space and moving around will not change the data.

    Did the show actually say that moving large distances through space gives them new information about background radiation?

  13. #13
    Airman
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    Default Re: A theory on Destiny, Seeder ships and the Gates they drop

    Quote Originally Posted by Aesjos View Post
    There is no "Source" of CBR like the show is positing, that it is being continuously broadcast from really far away. There's no where you could observe it better by going to it, it is coming from everywhere, and you can only observe the original 'structure' coming from a particular location from very far away. This is because the universe didn't expand from one location we can pin point but every point has moved away from each other. Thus, someone where Destiny is pointing their instruments back towards earth would get just as much info about the CBR as we can get from pointing them towards Destiny. The information you want is no longer where it started and not still emanating from it so going towards a space will not help at all. Ultimately, the way to get the whole picture is to develop a tool that lets you analyze the radiation coming from the absolute farthest point in space relative to your own, and you could use it anywhere with no need to go halfway across the universe, which will just give you the same information anyway.

    So, really, this whole idea of the show makes absolutely zero sense.
    The big bang theory postulates that the universe formed at a single point in space. There's quite a body of work that supports this theory. that being the case the CBR would be emananting from that point, which makes perfect sense. and it would give you a place to travel too.

  14. #14
    Airman
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    Default Re: A theory on Destiny, Seeder ships and the Gates they drop

    Quote Originally Posted by Nth Chevron View Post
    My theory is, that, if Destiny and these 10 Seed ships are all heading to a single point, or area of convergence, then this entails massive power reserves, we know Stargates utilise power from the off-world gate once connected, so this means they could have almost unlimited power, with Seed ships heading off to obtain more from stars as needed, to maintain a connection to any dialling Stargate for a quick arrival.

    What if all these ships are meant to converge and utilise their power reserves to bring the Ancients from the Milky Way to the possible source of the CMB structure for study. Destiny has the living space if no planet is available, other gates are spread out for supply gathering on any one of ten possible Seed ships or Destiny itself.

    N.C
    I have a theory that dovetails with yours... so instead of the Ancients intending the Destiny to dial home and report, what if the Ancients were dropping gates along the way to get back home?

    I believe from what I've seen on the show that the Ancient chair was a 1st generation attempt at ascention that was created as a way for Ancients to make the trip out to the source of the CBR which they knew would take so long they would not live to see any results. by doing away with their body and going along on destiny stored as "energy" or "Conscience" they would be able to exsist long enough to find the awnsers to what the signal in the CBR was.

    It may even be able for the chair to reverse the ascention process allowing those that are stored to become physical beings again. If that were the case they would want a quick and easy way to get home. a string of stargates can be used like a long distance transport. we saw stargate command do just this very thing in stargate atlantis where they strung a bunch of gates between galaxies and put a way point in the middle cutting travel time to atlantis down to just minutes.

    My guess is that the gates are like breadcrumbs being left behind so that the ancients that are being carried on destiny can get home once they rematerialize and get their anwsers to the signal in the CBR.

  15. #15
    Chief Master Sergeant
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    Default Re: A theory on Destiny, Seeder ships and the Gates they drop

    I think there's several reasons why there's more than one seed ships. For one, if you lose one, as in they're destroyed or damaged beyond repair, you can't replace it easily. Second, it would be very ineffective to something like one seed ship make gates, and then you follow it. The ships are traveling in a straight path through galaxies, but if they have to stop and make gates, their speed will be a lot slower. Destiny would have caught up and would have to wait for for the seed ship to move to the next world. What would be the point then? Plus, we've seen that once the Destiny stops, they'll see several gates at the same time. Seed ships are essentially traveling in a wide formation to cover multiple planets, so when Destiny stops, they'll have multiple gates to visit. There's also the problem of planets destabilizing over time, or having natural disasters that will either bury the gates, or make the planet uninhabitable for utilizing supplies.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: A theory on Destiny, Seeder ships and the Gates they drop

    Quote Originally Posted by Aesjos View Post
    There is no "Source" of CBR like the show is positing, that it is being continuously broadcast from really far away. There's no where you could observe it better by going to it, it is coming from everywhere, and you can only observe the original 'structure' coming from a particular location from very far away. This is because the universe didn't expand from one location we can pin point but every point has moved away from each other. Thus, someone where Destiny is pointing their instruments back towards earth would get just as much info about the CBR as we can get from pointing them towards Destiny. The information you want is no longer where it started and not still emanating from it so going towards a space will not help at all. Ultimately, the way to get the whole picture is to develop a tool that lets you analyze the radiation coming from the absolute farthest point in space relative to your own, and you could use it anywhere with no need to go halfway across the universe, which will just give you the same information anyway.

    So, really, this whole idea of the show makes absolutely zero sense.
    I've tried making this argument already... several times... it's going to fall on deaf ears.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: A theory on Destiny, Seeder ships and the Gates they drop

    Quote Originally Posted by cheezegr8r View Post
    The big bang theory postulates that the universe formed at a single point in space. There's quite a body of work that supports this theory. that being the case the CBR would be emananting from that point, which makes perfect sense. and it would give you a place to travel too.
    What you fail to understand is that EVERYWHERE IN THE UNIVERSE formed at a single point in space. You cannot find one point that was not in contact with every other point in the beginning. That is why the CMB is a uniform temperature all over the universe and the anisotrophies are thermal variations caused by quantum fluctuations of matter in a very tiny space expanded to the size of the universe today.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: A theory on Destiny, Seeder ships and the Gates they drop

    Quote Originally Posted by Python View Post
    Yeah.

    Except that, as Aesjos said earlier, background radiation is measured the same across space and moving around will not change the data.

    Did the show actually say that moving large distances through space gives them new information about background radiation?
    No. And leisurely following around seeder ships for a million years doesn't seem conducive to an important mission of measuring, analyzing, and decoding a "message" in the CMB. Heck, the CMB is what causes the snow on the empty channels of your analog TV set. Perhaps the Ancients thought they saw ghosts moving around just underneath the threshold of detection in the snow on their TV sets... I'll have what they were smoking, please.

  19. #19
    Ranch Hand Python's Avatar
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    Default Re: A theory on Destiny, Seeder ships and the Gates they drop

    Okay, so what exactly Destiny is doing seems like an open question. We just know that it's something that involves large distances and lots of stargates.

    Which makes me think it has something to do with exploring or messing around with the geometry of the universe. I mean, every time they open a wormhole they're changing the universe's topology and depending on the shape of the universe that could take different amounts of energy. So, maybe Destiny's mission is just to get a stargate really far away, like wwwwaaaaaaayy way far away, and see how the energy required to establish a wormhole with it changes. In concert with very precise measurements of the CMB, they could be discovering structures in the large scale curvature of spacetime. And maybe these structures appear artificial.

  20. #20
    Major General
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    Default Re: A theory on Destiny, Seeder ships and the Gates they drop

    Quote Originally Posted by cheezegr8r View Post

    My guess is that the gates are like breadcrumbs being left behind so that the ancients that are being carried on destiny can get home once they rematerialize and get their anwsers to the signal in the CBR.
    But how would they have powered a gate from galaxy 1 to 2, and 2 to 3 and so on..

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