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  1. #41
    Staff Sergeant Lt.UrsulaKenmore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Atlantis Homecoming

    Don't get me wrong, "Homecoming" is still an !awesome! read. It was just there were some facts and character things that caught me off guard. And they were such easy things to take into account that what threw me the most about them was that they hadn't been taken into account. But still "Homecoming" is a good book and I've got "The Lost" already on pre-order. (I've got to find out what happens next and please don't let Rodney be the one that might get killed, Please, Please, PLEASE!!!!!

  2. #42
    First Lieutenant
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    Default Re: Atlantis Homecoming

    Quote Originally Posted by Lt.UrsulaKenmore View Post
    See...
    However, I will say this: In EATG, Torren and Kanaan were left on New Athos for their protection - so it makes sense that she didn't bring them into a war with her. How many warriors/military people does anyone know of that take their infant children into war with them??? Just sayin'...
    That's what I'm kinda talking about. Torren never went to Earth with Teyla so how could he have possibly ended up on Earth with her when they could dial back? And if they could dial back why would Kanaan send just Torren through and not go with him too? It's such a little thing and yet such a big thing in terms of character that it seemed odd to me that that would be one of the authors discrepancies.
    I'll get back to you once I've read the book. That might be a little while since I've still got to read Death Game first. Whenever I want to read these books, I don't have the time. And when I do have time, I don't feel like reading so I watch an episode instead... Still, I promise that I'll get back to you about this. I just don't want to give a full comment on a book I have yet to read.

    Cheers.

  3. #43
    General hedwig's Avatar
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    Default Re: Atlantis Homecoming

    Quote Originally Posted by Lt.UrsulaKenmore View Post
    See...

    However, I will say this: In EATG, Torren and Kanaan were left on New Athos for their protection - so it makes sense that she didn't bring them into a war with her. How many warriors/military people does anyone know of that take their infant children into war with them??? Just sayin'...

    That's what I'm kinda talking about. Torren never went to Earth with Teyla so how could he have possibly ended up on Earth with her when they could dial back? And if they could dial back why would Kanaan send just Torren through and not go with him too? It's such a little thing and yet such a big thing in terms of character that it seemed odd to me that that would be one of the authors discrepancies.
    Actually, according to Joe Mallozzi in one of his blogs, somebody asked them about Torren and Kanan, and his reply was they were on Atlantis with Teyla when Atlantis went to earth. Even though nothing was said in EatG, this was Joe's answer to that question.

  4. #44
    First Lieutenant Starsaber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Atlantis Homecoming

    Quote Originally Posted by mercy moon View Post
    Spoiler:
    just hope queen death doesn't turn out to be todd's daughter or similar as that's a tad obvious ... still if he has to choose her or atlantis ... and chooses atlantis, shepp might finally trust him!
    Spoiler:

    If Snow was his daughter, it actually said she died. On Page 35, it said that Snow died when his hive was damaged in one of the last battles of the Wraith/Ancient war.

  5. #45
    Lieutenant General
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    Default Re: Atlantis Homecoming

    Quote Originally Posted by Starsaber View Post
    Spoiler:

    If Snow was his daughter, it actually said she died. On Page 35, it said that Snow died when his hive was damaged in one of the last battles of the Wraith/Ancient war.
    Spoiler:

    Snow was the hive Queen and per Jo's Livejournal answer to a question about an upcoming book,
    Spoiler:

    "We also see, in flashback, Todd/Guide's daughter, Alabaster, as a child in his memory, and find out what happened to her and how he came to be captured by the Genii."

    ~~~Stargate Wraith Mania Stargate Atlantis Wraith fan reference site~~~

  6. #46
    Chief Master Sergeant Hagazussa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Atlantis Homecoming

    I have just ordered Homecoming and I am hoping the book will have arrived when I go home tomorrow as I have spent two weeks visiting my mother and that might have been enough time for the book to arrive to me here in Norway.

  7. #47
    Colonel Elite Anubis Guard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Atlantis Homecoming

    The Lost is now out too. Am waiting for my copy.

    Stargate Destiny - Coming Again Soon

  8. #48
    Chief Master Sergeant Hagazussa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Atlantis Homecoming

    Is The Lost possible to buy as a physical book? I thought it had not been published yet and would not be for a few months yet.

  9. #49
    Lieutenant General
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    Default Re: Atlantis Homecoming

    Quote Originally Posted by Hagazussa View Post
    Is The Lost possible to buy as a physical book? I thought it had not been published yet and would not be for a few months yet.
    "The Lost" is available to buy and started shipping on 3/6/11; however, the cost of shipping is making many people wait until the local book stores start stocking them.

    http://www.stargatenovels.com/bookshop.php
    ~~~Stargate Wraith Mania Stargate Atlantis Wraith fan reference site~~~

  10. #50
    Chief Master Sergeant Hagazussa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Atlantis Homecoming

    I doubt my local bookstore here in Norway will get these books in stock, they have some fantasy literature but mostly paranormal romance, which is nice, I like that but there is little variation. There is a specialty store for science fiction, fantasy and horror not that far from me but buss fees to go in there and look for the book is about as high as shipping is.

  11. #51
    Chief Master Sergeant Hagazussa's Avatar
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    Default Wraith Names In Homecoming (very mild spoilers.)

    I am currently reading Stargate Atlantis Homecoming and for the most part I love the book, I highly recommend it. There is one thing I do not like however, the Wraith are named. Now for names we have for example Bonewhite, Iron, seriously I know they are green but they are not orcs and that is what they sound like. When I hear names such as Bonewhite I begin to think, I am Bonewhite bone crusher, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggggg, your bones will be given to our shaman as tribute...hum...oh I was not reading Warhammer my bad.

    My main problem with the Wraith being named is that it is a major mystery in the series why the Wraith never give their names, to just name them cheapen that. Now there are a few scenes in the series where the Wraith speak amongst themselves with no humans present and they do not use names then either, they refer to one another by position in the Hive, something which is rather natural. Many societies have not used names the way we do, your name where your profession, that is why we have names like Baker or Smith today. In Japan this was even more prevalent. There is an old Japanese novel, in fact it is one of the first examples of a book being written just for entertainment, and is often called the world's first novel. This book is called The Tale of Genji and it is extremely hard to follow the story as hardly anyone is named. At the time in Japan personal names where considered so private that to even name a fictional character was not done. Everyone is referred to by position. Governor, Lady's Maid and so on, the problem is that as time go on in the fictional world people's positions in society chance, and then their description do as well and as there is no names to go by it get problematic to keep up. However back on track with my post here, it would make sense if the Wraith had something similar, they have a hive based society, the hive is everything, it would make sense that they might not even have personal names but they are Hall Guard, Commander, Dart Pilot and so on.

    Another possibility I have considered is that their names might be telepathic. A good example of telepathic names would be in Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time where wolves are nearly as intelligent as humans are, they can walk people's dreams and they are telepathic. One of the main characters have the rare ability that he can speak with wolves and in the beginning grasping their names is hard, as a wolf's name might be a stretch of riverbank with paw prints in the snow a sunrise playing on the water and the sound of a fish breaking the surface. How do you translate that into words a non telepathic creature can understand?

    I am just guessing here, however what we know is that no Wraith have ever given their name, not one and there have to be a better reason than their names sounding stupid, also none of the named Wraith have minded their new names. Someone who look at names the way people do will usually be rather testy if someone try to rename them. A nickname among friends is one thing, however take various societies who have had slaves, for example America, there exist interviews with slaves and former slaves and one of the things which was mentioned as a debasement, right alongside rape and physical violence is often having their names changed. Names is important to people, allot of our identity rest on our names. However the Wraith in Stargate do not even flinch when they are given names by Sheppard, they just shrug in a oh well if you need to put such a handle on me way.

    Bottom line it seams unlikely to me that the Wraith have names the same way humans do, there have to be a reason why they are so unwilling to give their names, perhaps they can't, perhaps they do not have names as we would see it, or their names are telepathic and impossible to translate into a short, physical sound. Naming the Wraith Guide, Bonewhite and Snow is just disappointing, it just takes that great mystery and throw it out the window for convenience as it is easier to write a character who have a conventional name, and that is disappointing.

    Another thing which is disappointing is that Todd remembering back appears to have had two children with his first Queen. What? First he have a name and now he do the hubba hubba which a Queen? It is not described exactly how Wraith produce young in Stargate Atlantis but it is said that it is not done as humans do it, and it would be impossible to do it the way humans do it, there are thousands of males per one female, the female can not just get pregnant and give birth that is to slow, the race would plain die out with so few females. It is said that the Queen provide the genetic material for new Wraith, probably it works like with many insects, the Queen are fertilized once and then the males are not needed anymore other than to protect her and attend upon her. Wraith Queens do not, and I repeat do not do the hubba bubba with their Commanders and then birth them daughters and name them Snow! I feel that the authors of this book tried to much to humanize the Wraith, however that do not work, they are alien, and they should then be alien, their names and reproduction should be alien, do make them seam more human is to cheapen them.

  12. #52
    Lieutenant Colonel
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    Default Re: Wraith Names In Homecoming (very mild spoilers.)

    Well in my opinion the books are not canon and thus have no consequence.

  13. #53
    Chief Master Sergeant Hagazussa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wraith Names In Homecoming (very mild spoilers.)

    They may not be cannon and may not have a consequence on the TV series, however the books themselves would be more enjoyable if they did not give Wraiths actual names left and right.

  14. #54
    Lieutenant Colonel Isolde's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wraith Names In Homecoming (very mild spoilers.)

    @ Hagazussa: http://jo-graham.livejournal.com/99875.html This is Jo's personal blog, and if you go through her archive, or ask orb (who will undoubtedly have the correct links for the info), she explains many of the points you raised in your lengthy post. The names used for Wraith are linked to their telepathy, and are the idea of Melissa Scott. I tried to find her blog too, but wasn't able to, so orb will prolly have that as well.

    @ escyos: As TPTB i.e. MGM have vetted these and they've passed muster, then they are as good as canon. We aren't going to get a film.

  15. #55
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    Default Re: Wraith Names In Homecoming (very mild spoilers.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Isolde View Post
    @ escyos: As TPTB i.e. MGM have vetted these and they've passed muster, then they are as good as canon. We aren't going to get a film.
    MGM has had no say in what is on screen (well nothing of consequence to the story i.e. Sha're nude), as for the "pass(ing) muster" you do know how that works dont you? :

    Step 1: A company pays to use the Stargate franchise
    Step 2: Thats it

    there is no rigorous screening, just a little plot summary and the basics of whats happening and they get their money. presto.

    And i never mentioned getting a film, as much as i would like it, the film is the most likely continuation, instead of non-canon novels which DESTROY canon.

  16. #56
    Colonel Leeta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wraith Names In Homecoming (very mild spoilers.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hagazussa View Post
    I am currently reading Stargate Atlantis Homecoming and for the most part I love the book, I highly recommend it. There is one thing I do not like however, the Wraith are named. Now for names we have for example Bonewhite, Iron, seriously I know they are green but they are not orcs and that is what they sound like. When I hear names such as Bonewhite I begin to think, I am Bonewhite bone crusher, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggggg, your bones will be given to our shaman as tribute...hum...oh I was not reading Warhammer my bad.
    I was thinking more along the lines of WoW since I never played Warhammer. But I like their names and the names are only suppose to be a rough translation of what they call each other. Isolde put a very good link up with the author explaining alot of it.



    Quote Originally Posted by Hagazussa View Post
    Naming the Wraith Guide, Bonewhite and Snow is just disappointing, it just takes that great mystery and throw it out the window for convenience as it is easier to write a character who have a conventional name, and that is disappointing.
    If the wraith are talking to each other and calling each other by name then it's not really taking away the mystery to me. It's like not they are talking to Sheppard and telling him what their names are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hagazussa View Post
    Spoiler:
    Another thing which is disappointing is that Todd remembering back appears to have had two children with his first Queen. What? First he have a name and now he do the hubba hubba which a Queen? It is not described exactly how Wraith produce young in Stargate Atlantis but it is said that it is not done as humans do it, and it would be impossible to do it the way humans do it, there are thousands of males per one female, the female can not just get pregnant and give birth that is to slow, the race would plain die out with so few females. It is said that the Queen provide the genetic material for new Wraith, probably it works like with many insects, the Queen are fertilized once and then the males are not needed anymore other than to protect her and attend upon her. Wraith Queens do not, and I repeat do not do the hubba bubba with their Commanders and then birth them daughters and name them Snow! I feel that the authors of this book tried to much to humanize the Wraith, however that do not work, they are alien, and they should then be alien, their names and reproduction should be alien, do make them seam more human is to cheapen them.
    They are suppose to be partly human so I think it could be possible for them to have reproduction methods similar to humans. The show never went into detail about it. The science in the show was, as some others have called it, 'shonky' at best.



    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    MGM has had no say in what is on screen (well nothing of consequence to the story i.e. Sha're nude), as for the "pass(ing) muster" you do know how that works dont you? :
    Spoiler:
    Step 1: A company pays to use the Stargate franchise
    Step 2: Thats it

    there is no rigorous screening, just a little plot summary and the basics of whats happening and they get their money. presto.

    And i never mentioned getting a film, as much as i would like it, the film is the most likely continuation, instead of non-canon novels which DESTROY canon.
    Damn those books with their paradoxes and crazy canon!
    The worship of Talos is strictly forbidden!

  17. #57
    Fandemonium Author JMSwallow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wraith Names In Homecoming (very mild spoilers.)

    escyos, you are of course entitled to your opinion about the canonicity (or lack thereof) in the Stargate tie-ins, but I'm afraid what you're saying here about the production and approval process is utterly incorrect.

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    as for the "pass(ing) muster" you do know how that works dont you? :
    Step 1: A company pays to use the Stargate franchise
    Step 2: Thats it
    there is no rigorous screening, just a little plot summary and the basics of whats happening and they get their money. presto.
    Clearly, you don't know how it works. For your information;

    Fandemonium Books (and also Big Finish Productions with the audio dramas and Dynamite Entertainment with the comics) pay a fee to MGM for the official licence, and a percentage from the sales of each tie-in work.

    In return, the works created are vetted at every stage by staff at MGM's internal licencing office, who police them for editorial and continuity issues, and ensure that they synch as much as possible with the on-screen iterations of the Stargate shows.

    This is a long and involved process that can take several months and progresses through a number of cycles; initially an outline is submitted for first stage approval. These documents are typically up to 10,000 words in length, and are in no way "a little plot summary".

    This outline must be approved by MGM et al, and may require changes/rewrites; then the novel/script/comic is written, and that material passes through the same lengthy approval process (which again may require many revisions) before finally being cleared for publication.

    Out Now:
    Stargate Universe: Air, Stargate Atlantis: Nightfall, Stargate SG-1: Relativity and Stargate Atlantis: Halcyon (from Fandemonium Books)
    Stargate SG-1: Half Life, Stargate SG-1: First Prime, Stargate Atlantis: Zero Point and Stargate SG-1: Shell Game (from Big Finish Productions)
    "Outsiders" (Stargate: The Official Magazine #20), "Choices" (Stargate: The Official Magazine #10)
    ---------------------------------------------------
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  18. #58
    Lieutenant Colonel Isolde's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wraith Names In Homecoming (very mild spoilers.)

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    MGM has had no say in what is on screen (well nothing of consequence to the story i.e. Sha're nude), as for the "pass(ing) muster" you do know how that works dont you? :

    Step 1: A company pays to use the Stargate franchise
    Step 2: Thats it

    there is no rigorous screening, just a little plot summary and the basics of whats happening and they get their money. presto.

    And i never mentioned getting a film, as much as i would like it, the film is the most likely continuation, instead of non-canon novels which DESTROY canon.
    Indeed, you didn't mention a film, but I inferred from your comment it is only that you will accept as canon. I do so love to be patronised.

    However, as JMSwallow has outlined the number of hoops an author needs to jump through in order to produce an acceptable manuscript, I really don't think I need to say much more.

  19. #59
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    Default Re: Wraith Names In Homecoming (very mild spoilers.)

    Quote Originally Posted by JMSwallow View Post
    escyos, you are of course entitled to your opinion about the canonicity (or lack thereof) in the Stargate tie-ins, but I'm afraid what you're saying here about the production and approval process is utterly incorrect.



    Clearly, you don't know how it works. For your information;

    Fandemonium Books (and also Big Finish Productions with the audio dramas and Dynamite Entertainment with the comics) pay a fee to MGM for the official licence, and a percentage from the sales of each tie-in work.

    In return, the works created are vetted at every stage by staff at MGM's internal licencing office, who police them for editorial and continuity issues, and ensure that they synch as much as possible with the on-screen iterations of the Stargate shows.

    This is a long and involved process that can take several months and progresses through a number of cycles; initially an outline is submitted for first stage approval. These documents are typically up to 10,000 words in length, and are in no way "a little plot summary".

    This outline must be approved by MGM et al, and may require changes/rewrites; then the novel/script/comic is written, and that material passes through the same lengthy approval process (which again may require many revisions) before finally being cleared for publication.
    MGM has no say in Stargate, they never have (mostly) and never should, they are merely doing it for the money, not for the fans.
    Last edited by escyos; March 13th, 2011 at 06:27 AM.

  20. #60
    Lieutenant General
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    Default Re: Wraith Names In Homecoming (very mild spoilers.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Isolde View Post
    @ Hagazussa: http://jo-graham.livejournal.com/99875.html This is Jo's personal blog, and if you go through her archive, or ask orb (who will undoubtedly have the correct links for the info), she explains many of the points you raised in your lengthy post. The names used for Wraith are linked to their telepathy, and are the idea of Melissa Scott. I tried to find her blog too, but wasn't able to, so orb will prolly have that as well.
    Melissa Scott's blog has a good Wraith name explanation:
    http://mescott.livejournal.com/2727.html

    Quote Originally Posted by JMSwallow View Post
    This is a long and involved process that can take several months and progresses through a number of cycles; initially an outline is submitted for first stage approval. These documents are typically up to 10,000 words in length, and are in no way "a little plot summary".
    Thanks for letting us know how this process works.

    I so wish that "Halcyon" could be reprinted, BTW. I've tried writing to Fandy a few times.
    ~~~Stargate Wraith Mania Stargate Atlantis Wraith fan reference site~~~

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