Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 43

Thread: Eden???

  1. #1
    Second Lieutenant Buck32's Avatar
    Member Since
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    287

    Default Eden???

    So much for "planet eden" wouldn't you think if a planet is a paradise that it wouldn't be suseptable to freezing temperatures? and if the planet builders really were benevolent wouldn't they do something about the inclement weather or provide the people with more shelter and warmth?

    Cain and co were shortsighted, they died of naivety more than anything!

  2. #2
    Captain wolverine_nl's Avatar
    Member Since
    May 2005
    Location
    IDA
    Posts
    1,263

    Default Re: Eden???

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck32 View Post
    So much for "planet eden" wouldn't you think if a planet is a paradise that it wouldn't be suseptable to freezing temperatures? and if the planet builders really were benevolent wouldn't they do something about the inclement weather or provide the people with more shelter and warmth?

    Cain and co were shortsighted, they died of naivety more than anything!
    Those planet builders respect faith and nature once it is established, thats for sure. And freezing cold is also here on Earth in places that have good summers, so no strange things there. Caine and co didnt have good winterclothing, shelter etc.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Eden???

    A winter wonderland can be an "Eden" just as long as you have a warm hutt to go to when it gets too much

  4. #4
    First Lieutenant Shai Hulud's Avatar
    Member Since
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    574

    Default Re: Eden???

    Quote Originally Posted by wolverine_nl View Post
    Caine and co didnt have good winterclothing, shelter etc.
    In which case they should never have stayed there in the first place. They were told that the winters would get especially cold and yet they decided to stay and put their faith in some God like higher power which they assumed was benevolent. Assumption being the mother of all frak ups, they got what they deserved. To quote Oliver Cromwell: "Put your trust in God, but keep your powder dry."
    Bless the Maker and all His Water. Bless the coming and going of Him, May His passing cleanse the world. May He keep the world for his people.

  5. #5
    Second Lieutenant
    Member Since
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    404

    Default Re: Eden???

    Quote Originally Posted by Shai Hulud View Post
    In which case they should never have stayed there in the first place. They were told that the winters would get especially cold and yet they decided to stay and put their faith in some God like higher power which they assumed was benevolent. Assumption being the mother of all frak ups, they got what they deserved. To quote Oliver Cromwell: "Put your trust in God, but keep your powder dry."
    Greer said it best, when he described them as "science types, with low survival skills" or some such.

    Stupid is as stupid does.

  6. #6
    Captain wolverine_nl's Avatar
    Member Since
    May 2005
    Location
    IDA
    Posts
    1,263

    Default Re: Eden???

    You can be smart and still do stupid things

  7. #7
    Second Lieutenant Mozzza's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    499

    Default Re: Eden???

    Quote Originally Posted by wolverine_nl View Post
    And freezing cold is also here on Earth in places that have good summers, so no strange things there.
    Yes but is Earth paradise?

  8. #8
    Lieutenant Colonel kymeric's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    3,326

    Default Re: Eden???

    Quote Originally Posted by Mozzza View Post
    Yes but is Earth paradise?
    It is for a thin band around the equator. Anywhere else you are SOL without civilization or some idea of what youre doing. Theres a reason the American colonies had an 80%+ mortality rate.

  9. #9
    Captain Steelbox's Avatar
    Member Since
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    1,008

    Default Re: Eden???

    Why didn't they made fire? To stay warm?
    http://email.faxem.com.au/download/files/01445/1279070/iStock_000010944279Small_Header.jpg
    - SteamID user since 2005 -- you can add me - visit steam translation server brazil @ Steelbox

  10. #10
    Second Lieutenant Mozzza's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    499

    Default Re: Eden???

    Quote Originally Posted by kymeric View Post
    It is for a thin band around the equator. Anywhere else you are SOL without civilization or some idea of what youre doing. Theres a reason the American colonies had an 80%+ mortality rate.
    My question was rhetorical . But in any case, I don't think there's such thing a paradise because the word is subject to interpretation. My paradise and your paradise may greatly differ. Besides, I'd hardly say that the Earth is a peaceful place... yet. Though, yes there are some beautiful places.

  11. #11
    Second Lieutenant Mozzza's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    499

    Default Re: Eden???

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelbox View Post
    Why didn't they made fire? To stay warm?
    They did. It wasn't enough.

  12. #12
    Chief Master Sergeant Descended's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    176

    Default Re: Eden???

    It is for a thin band around the equator. Anywhere else you are SOL without civilization or some idea of what youre doing. Theres a reason the American colonies had an 80%+ mortality rate.
    Actually, when you consider those countries, the thin band around the Equator tend to be a real ****hole. Yea, the weather is mild, but there are other problems, i.e. insects and disease. They really shouldn't have picked a spot at random, they should have found a sea with a warming current which would moderate the weather (i.e. California or Hawaii) They should have studied the planet's rotation and axis wobble, because seasons could be drastically different what we have on Earth. For being "science-types" they weren't too bright. Lacking survival skills doesn't necessarily mean death if you are smart enough, the early American settlers lacked skills, yes, but they also lacked knowledge, being mostly uneducated by today's standards (although scholarly people back then were highly literate by today's standards, i.e. read some of their letters, no one today could write like that, they lacked any basis of science at all)

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelbox View Post
    Why didn't they made fire? To stay warm?
    Because there were apparently stupid. They had a shuttle designed for space (meaning it is insulated against temperatures down to a few degrees above absolute zero) but they left the door WIDE open. They said it was because the ship was airtight, but it would take that group probably a day to use the oxygen in that large shuttle, so why not only open it for a few minutes each day to replenish the oxygen and get rid of CO2? Their body heat would eventually warm the inside. Or at the very least stack rocks into a wall at the open doorway, letting air in but keeping most of the heat inside (the rugby team in "Alive" knew enough to do that, stacking luggage in the open end of the plane)

    If you built a fire right next to the wall and left a stone out the top, the pressure differential would take the smoke out the opening. Jeez people, at the very least find a bed-rock cave, they stay the same temperature year-round... primitive man lived in them for a reason!

  13. #13
    First Lieutenant Perelandra's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Pegasus Galaxy
    Posts
    631

    Default Re: Eden???

    I'm suprised they didn't try to migrate to a warmer part of the planet-maybe they couldn't find a warmer place?

  14. #14
    Captain Avenger's Avatar
    Member Since
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Berkeley, Ca
    Posts
    1,935

    Default Re: Eden???

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck32 View Post
    So much for "planet eden" wouldn't you think if a planet is a paradise that it wouldn't be suseptable to freezing temperatures? and if the planet builders really were benevolent wouldn't they do something about the inclement weather or provide the people with more shelter and warmth?

    Cain and co were shortsighted, they died of naivety more than anything!
    Are you making the assumption that the planet is a paradise because those who chose to stay behind took to calling it Eden? These people were idiots to stay behind in the first place. You can't really assume the planet is a paradise based on the actions of people making a stupid choice.
    I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

  15. #15
    Hold cleaner
    Member Since
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    48

    Default Re: Eden???

    What if this planet is something like a vacation spot for those aliens and if we assume that they live at freezing temperatures this winter is the perfect season for them.This could explain why they came so late and why they created a planet with so harsh winters.Am I speaking nonsense again?
    Last edited by Stalekon; November 25th, 2010 at 09:50 AM.

  16. #16
    Captain wolverine_nl's Avatar
    Member Since
    May 2005
    Location
    IDA
    Posts
    1,263

    Default Re: Eden???

    Quote Originally Posted by Stalekon View Post
    What if this planet is something like a vacation spot for those aliens and if we assume that they live at freezing temperatures this winter is the perfect season for them.This could explain why they came so late and why they created a planet with so harsh winters.Am I speaking nonsense again?
    You could be on to something, but we cant know for sure yet

  17. #17
    Second Lieutenant
    Member Since
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    404

    Default Re: Eden???

    Quote Originally Posted by Descended View Post
    Because there were apparently stupid. They had a shuttle designed for space (meaning it is insulated against temperatures down to a few degrees above absolute zero) but they left the door WIDE open. They said it was because the ship was airtight, but it would take that group probably a day to use the oxygen in that large shuttle, so why not only open it for a few minutes each day to replenish the oxygen and get rid of CO2? Their body heat would eventually warm the inside. Or at the very least stack rocks into a wall at the open doorway, letting air in but keeping most of the heat inside (the rugby team in "Alive" knew enough to do that, stacking luggage in the open end of the plane)

    If you built a fire right next to the wall and left a stone out the top, the pressure differential would take the smoke out the opening. Jeez people, at the very least find a bed-rock cave, they stay the same temperature year-round... primitive man lived in them for a reason!
    The entire story was mind boggling, tbh. Suspension of disbelief only works for so long, until we get the the patently stupid.

    Even buried under a foot of snow, there was no sign of any shelter outside of the shuttle or other constructs (i.e. a settlement). Do they honestly mean to tell us that:

    (1) they've either lived for a few months in the shuttle; been exposed to the elements; or their basic construction skills are so poor, their constructs collapsed the moment the snow fell?

    (2) they've all spent all of their time gathering food and firewood?

    (3) none of them have any sense of forward planning? They were warned that winter was coming.

  18. #18
    First Lieutenant Wayston's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    917

    Default Re: Eden???

    Quote Originally Posted by JustAnotherVoice View Post
    The entire story was mind boggling, tbh. Suspension of disbelief only works for so long, until we get the the patently stupid.

    Even buried under a foot of snow, there was no sign of any shelter outside of the shuttle or other constructs (i.e. a settlement). Do they honestly mean to tell us that:

    (1) they've either lived for a few months in the shuttle; been exposed to the elements; or their basic construction skills are so poor, their constructs collapsed the moment the snow fell?

    (2) they've all spent all of their time gathering food and firewood?

    (3) none of them have any sense of forward planning? They were warned that winter was coming.
    Yes. They were living a nomadic lifestyle - at one point it is mentionned "we've already picked this place clean" (which I assume had to do with food). They were probably hopping towards the equator until their shuttle broke down. They were fully reliant on food gathering (I doubt hunting was much of an option - if there was any game there at all) which would be a big time killer. And of course even if they had spare time they probably spent it on R&R, at least initially. After all they had the shuttle to cater to their needs. Their chances of survival would have been much bigger if it hadn't broken down, something which they seemingly did not/could not plan for.

    Also when it comes to forward planning, they did have some but due to their low survival knowledge it wasn't adequate. Caine did try to make people do useful stuff (like chopping wood) instead of wasting their time on growing stuff right before winter and they did have some food supply when the shuttle broke down.

    It was implied that the winters on that planet were very long and harsh, they clearly planned somewhat but they had no idea how long it would last or how harsh it would be.
    Last edited by Wayston; November 25th, 2010 at 11:57 AM.
    I'm an average viewer. As plain as they come. People make TV shows based on my demographic.

    Million's of ZPM's, ZPM's for free! Millions of ZPM's, ZPM's for me!

  19. #19
    Lieutenant Colonel kirmit's Avatar
    Member Since
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Planet Monkey, UK
    Posts
    4,102

    Default Re: Eden???

    Quote Originally Posted by Perelandra View Post
    I'm suprised they didn't try to migrate to a warmer part of the planet-maybe they couldn't find a warmer place?
    That's what crossed my mind, surely the whole planet woudn't of been in a winter, as soon as it started getting colder they should of taken all their food and migrated.

  20. #20
    Second Lieutenant
    Member Since
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    404

    Default Re: Eden???

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayston View Post
    Yes. They were living a nomadic lifestyle - at one point it is mentionned "we've already picked this place clean" (which I assume had to do with food). They were probably hopping towards the equator until their shuttle broke down. They were fully reliant on food gathering (I doubt hunting was much of an option - if there was any game there at all) which would be a big time killer. And of course even if they had spare time they probably spent it on R&R, at least initially. After all they had the shuttle to cater to their needs. Their chances of survival would have been much bigger if it hadn't broken down, something which they seemingly did not/could not plan for.

    Also when it comes to forward planning, they did have some but due to their low survival knowledge it wasn't adequate. Caine did try to make people do useful stuff (like chopping wood) instead of wasting their time on growing stuff right before winter and they did have some food supply when the shuttle broke down.

    It was implied that the winters on that planet were very long and harsh, they clearly planned somewhat but they had no idea how long it would last or how harsh it would be.
    (1) I don't think they were living a nomadic lifestyle. They tried farming long before winter set in, and long before their ship broke down, which tells me they were content to stay in one place. Caine's inability to dock the shuttle without help also tells me that they didn't have anything resembling a pilot, despite Young suggesting they could explore the planet with the shuttle.

    In either case, being nomadic doesn't mean you don't build, especially since they have heavy lift capabilities. At the very least, when it was "getting colder by the day", simple builds like wind breaks should have been on the menu, but we don't even see that. To add insult to injury, the shuttle door was pointed into the wind. A lean-to windbreak (i.e. leaning branches up against the door) would have kept them much warmer than hanging a pair of blankets up.

    A windbreak would also mean they could actually have a fire outside (reflecting the heat into the shuttle as a nice bonus), rather than rely on candles for warmth.

    They had seven bodies (minus the blonde pancake). That's more than enough to spare one or two to build basic things to make life more bearable, after all, a founding principle of modern life is division of labour. They'd need to divide up the work anyway: collecting water, food, firewood; that'd be 2 a piece with 1 remaining to work on making a "shuttle crash site" into a settlement.

    (2) Common sense tells you not to plant in the winter. Forward planning would be digging in for the winter, stockpiling firewood etc, before they got to the point where it was too cold to do anything. Instead, they found the time to make candles and read.

    (3) You're right, it was implied the winters were long and harsh. All the more reason they should have dug in properly, especially since they were there for a while, and right next to a source of building materials.

Similar Threads

  1. Eden (406)
    By Stargate: Horizon in forum Season Four Episodes
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: March 12th, 2011, 06:50 AM
  2. "Eden" explores origins of the Draque!
    By Alex Rubit in forum Stargate: Horizon
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: October 4th, 2007, 11:01 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •