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    #16
    I agree with the vast majority of the issues brought up so far, and I'm not a very patient man so I didn't read all of the longer posts so I apologize if this has already been brought up but, did Death's job seem a little too simple to anyone?

    I mean, Death itself should be doing more than what Dean did. Death mentioned in Swan Song I believe it was that our galaxy was "barely out of its diapers" or something like that hinting to his job being much MUCH larger than tending to the deaths here on Earth.

    Therefore, when Dean was doing Death's job, shouldn't he be "taking" like billions of lifeform's lives at every given second? This all depends on the size of the universe but you get my point. Plus, I'm sure more people died during the time Dean was doing his shift than we saw and that he took so WTF?

    We can assume that Death didn't give ALL of his duties to Dean for that short bit of time but it was never addressed and that is what gets to me. It would have taken one line from Death to clear all of this up like, "Of course, I can't let you take over my job entirely, you'd most defiantly explode the insignificant lifeform that you are." or something like that and I'd be happy.

    I speculated that perhaps the ring is what ties Death to Earth, kind of the embodiment (or en-ring-ment) of his Earthly form and duties. So when Dean put on the ring, thats all he obtained, and not the rest which would have made him at the very least kersplode. This is a very weak speculation but its all i could come up with that even remotely works without resorting to "Well it was like that 'cause Death wanted it to be like that."

    One last little thing, that fact that Dean gained none of Death's knowledge while wearing the ring i.e. what happens after you die. You'd think that might be something you'd need to know to effectively be Death. Even if he only had said knowledge while wearing the ring, that wouldn't have been so bad would it? If he forgot all that super-knowhow after he took off the ring? But I assume thats why Tessa was there, because I doubt Death needs another Reaper there when he takes someone, after all as he said, he is Death.

    I've always been a fan of Death's portrayal in SPN, I don't know how many times I've watched that part of Swan Song where Death pulls up in his white "horse" and totally brushes that guys life off his shoulder. And when he refers to a human as a bacterium compared to him, classic!

    Anyway, great episode as a whole and I absolutely loved the return of Death, sorry to be nitpicky but thought I should mention the few things I noticed throughout. Thank you to those who actually read my entire post and SHAME on those who read the first paragraph and a half then skipped to the last one! I do it all the time.
    Founding member and councilman of The League for the Empowerment of Villainous Inquisitor Laborers
    Also know as The League of EVIL.

    Supporter of the philosophies and practices of the Alterans and the Asgard.
    Supporter of the Galactic Empire.
    Supporter of all of Dr. Nicholas Rush's methods throughout all of SGU so far.

    "If you immediately know the candle light is fire, the meal was cooked long ago." -Oma Desala
    "The only moral way to change someone's mind...is to present evidence." -Alteran
    "We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, through argument and debate but most of all, freedom of will." -Alteran
    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." -Einstein
    "Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." -Einstein

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      #17
      What do you mean with "kersplode"? Googled it and urban dictionary says it means explode, but with that I still don't get it.

      You have some very good points there, concerning Death, but honestly I go with "It was this way because Death wanted it this way". Dean apparently needed the ring to be able to take life.
      I always assumed, that Death himself doesn't need to be there, when someone dies, that is what the reapers are for, and that Death decides and plans in the great scheme. Maybe there are just some very few very random deaths he has to overlook himself, because they are important for the whole web of events.

      But honestly I think that he made the list of people for Dean, to teach him a lesson. And it can't be only that the obvious right decision might be the wrong one, because I think that is a lesson Dean already knows.
      The cake is a lie!

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by Montoya View Post
        I agree with the vast majority of the issues brought up so far, and I'm not a very patient man so I didn't read all of the longer posts so I apologize if this has already been brought up but, did Death's job seem a little too simple to anyone?

        I mean, Death itself should be doing more than what Dean did. Death mentioned in Swan Song I believe it was that our galaxy was "barely out of its diapers" or something like that hinting to his job being much MUCH larger than tending to the deaths here on Earth.

        <snipped>
        I love your post...and I read it all.

        I thought the same about Death's duties as well, although I was thinking more that Dean would have been needed in the various war zones around the world and so on. But I likened this SPN Death to more like Terry Pratchett's Death...kind of there as more symbolic than trying to be realisitic. And I think Death was letting Dean use the ring and become Death for a day to make a point..to teach him a lesson. So what Death really does in his working day is probably beyond the understanding of a mere mortal. And that includes knowing what dying actually means as well.

        I agree, having a line in there saying that would have been great but I prefer it being left kind of vague.
        sigpic

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          #19
          Originally posted by LizzieAnne View Post
          I thought the same about Death's duties as well, although I was thinking more that Dean would have been needed in the various war zones around the world and so on. But I likened this SPN Death to more like Terry Pratchett's Death...kind of there as more symbolic than trying to be realisitic. And I think Death was letting Dean use the ring and become Death for a day to make a point..to teach him a lesson. So what Death really does in his working day is probably beyond the understanding of a mere mortal. And that includes knowing what dying actually means as well.

          I agree, having a line in there saying that would have been great but I prefer it being left kind of vague.
          This.

          I don't think it was meant to actually show what Death does day in and day out. Dean got just a tiny taste of it, but the lesson was about the natural order of things. You mess with it, and it throws other things into chaos. Dean got to see it in action on a tiny scale by saving the girl which in turn killed the nurse who wasn't destined to die for a long time.

          You posted up thread what I think is the crucial quote of the episode, and an important one to the series as a whole.

          Death: "You and your brother keep coming back. You're an affront to the balance of the universe, and you cause disruption on a global scale."

          It will probably resonate with the rest of the season as the return of Sam's soul will continue to illustrate this.
          IMO always implied.

          Comment


            #20
            What do you mean with "kersplode"? Googled it and urban dictionary says it means explode, but with that I still don't get it.
            Honestly, I don't know what it means either. I used it to describe an explosion not necessarily of the body but of the mind and/or soul as well. This is obviously not the definition and I didn't expect anyone to take my intended meaning from it, it was mostly for comic relief.

            I love your post...and I read it all.

            I thought the same about Death's duties as well, although I was thinking more that Dean would have been needed in the various war zones around the world and so on. But I likened this SPN Death to more like Terry Pratchett's Death...kind of there as more symbolic than trying to be realisitic. And I think Death was letting Dean use the ring and become Death for a day to make a point..to teach him a lesson. So what Death really does in his working day is probably beyond the understanding of a mere mortal. And that includes knowing what dying actually means as well.
            I agree, having a line in there saying that would have been great but I prefer it being left kind of vague.
            Thanks I'm glad you liked it!

            I agree that Death was doing it to teach Dean a lesson, I guess it wasn't clear that I understood that. Also, the whole war-zone thing actually occurred to me while writing my original post and I intended to mention it but somehow it must have slipped my mind so thank you for mentioning that. You "caught the ball that I dropped" as it were.


            And again I like that you brought up that Death's knowledge, even the small portion I referred to, would be too much for a "mere mortal" to handle, it shows that you are an individual that can comprehend the vastness and complexity of the Universe, not some mindless zombie that watches the show for the hot guys. I respect that.

            (BTW I don't mean to imply that those who do watch the show and enjoy the landscape that is Jensen and Jared are mindless at all, I apologize if I offended anyone in any way)

            As for your preference of the vagueness of it all, I never thought of it like that and I can now say that I see your point of view and respectfully disagree.
            Founding member and councilman of The League for the Empowerment of Villainous Inquisitor Laborers
            Also know as The League of EVIL.

            Supporter of the philosophies and practices of the Alterans and the Asgard.
            Supporter of the Galactic Empire.
            Supporter of all of Dr. Nicholas Rush's methods throughout all of SGU so far.

            "If you immediately know the candle light is fire, the meal was cooked long ago." -Oma Desala
            "The only moral way to change someone's mind...is to present evidence." -Alteran
            "We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, through argument and debate but most of all, freedom of will." -Alteran
            "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." -Einstein
            "Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." -Einstein

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by LoneStar1836 View Post
              This.

              I don't think it was meant to actually show what Death does day in and day out. Dean got just a tiny taste of it, but the lesson was about the natural order of things. You mess with it, and it throws other things into chaos. Dean got to see it in action on a tiny scale by saving the girl which in turn killed the nurse who wasn't destined to die for a long time.

              You posted up thread what I think is the crucial quote of the episode, and an important one to the series as a whole.

              Death: "You and your brother keep coming back. You're an affront to the balance of the universe, and you cause disruption on a global scale."

              It will probably resonate with the rest of the season as the return of Sam's soul will continue to illustrate this.
              Excellent point. I'd not thought about that.
              sigpic

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by iolanda View Post
                ... Dean apparently needed the ring to be able to take life.
                I always assumed, that Death himself doesn't need to be there, when someone dies, that is what the reapers are for, and that Death decides and plans in the great scheme. Maybe there are just some very few very random deaths he has to overlook himself, because they are important for the whole web of events.

                But honestly I think that he made the list of people for Dean,...
                I agree that Dean did in fact need the ring to take life, but I also noticed that it gave him the power to "zap" as he would call it, around from place to place as needed which lead to my initial observation of it giving him some of Death's other powers as well.

                As for your assumption that Death does not have to be present at every death at the time of death, I like that you are the kind of person that would think logically about this kind of thing and I would like to share my opinion on the subject if I may.

                I always assumed that, since Death (the being) does not exist in the same kind of space as we do (on the same plain of existence if you will), and likely does not perceive time as we do, he can kind of just will the life out of the billions of dieing lifeforms as any given moment, rather than touching them as Dean did. It would seem silly for a being that exists in (as we would see it) multiple places at once (or all places at once) to have to convert to such a 3-dimensional form in order to do his job.

                Come to think of it, that could be what reapers are. The physical (for the most part) manifestation of Death's super-position. In other words, Death's being everywhere is perceived as the thousands of reapers that are everywhere so that it is more understandable to we mortals.

                I agree with you on the point that Death is the one that "decides and plans the great scheme", I don't know where I'm going with this but I thought it should be said.

                I also agree that Death would only personally have to overlook certain important Deaths, such as God, but in order to meld it with my theory of Death's state of existence and involvement, it would be probably more along the lines of his focusing the majority of his being on the task of taking this life. I would say it would require him to take a 3-D form but to reap God, he would need to be in such a state I cannot even begin to imagine.
                Founding member and councilman of The League for the Empowerment of Villainous Inquisitor Laborers
                Also know as The League of EVIL.

                Supporter of the philosophies and practices of the Alterans and the Asgard.
                Supporter of the Galactic Empire.
                Supporter of all of Dr. Nicholas Rush's methods throughout all of SGU so far.

                "If you immediately know the candle light is fire, the meal was cooked long ago." -Oma Desala
                "The only moral way to change someone's mind...is to present evidence." -Alteran
                "We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, through argument and debate but most of all, freedom of will." -Alteran
                "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." -Einstein
                "Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." -Einstein

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by LoneStar1836 View Post
                  This.

                  I don't think it was meant to actually show what Death does day in and day out. Dean got just a tiny taste of it, but the lesson was about the natural order of things. You mess with it, and it throws other things into chaos. Dean got to see it in action on a tiny scale by saving the girl which in turn killed the nurse who wasn't destined to die for a long time.

                  You posted up thread what I think is the crucial quote of the episode, and an important one to the series as a whole.

                  Death: "You and your brother keep coming back. You're an affront to the balance of the universe, and you cause disruption on a global scale."

                  It will probably resonate with the rest of the season as the return of Sam's soul will continue to illustrate this.
                  That's a very good point...I like the quote even more now!

                  Originally posted by Montoya View Post

                  And again I like that you brought up that Death's knowledge, even the small portion I referred to, would be too much for a "mere mortal" to handle, it shows that you are an individual that can comprehend the vastness and complexity of the Universe, not some mindless zombie that watches the show for the hot guys. I respect that.
                  Of course...me oogling the hot shirtless Winchesters? Perish the thought!
                  sigpic

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                    #24
                    Hey y'all. I have finally quenched my SPN need. Great ep! Let's see if I can make this make sense.

                    I love watching Dean and Death. I love Dean's snark and sarcasm, but I really love when someone can put him in his place. Death can do that. He manages to get Dean to learn what he needs to. I realized mid-ep that Dean and Sam probably are starting to take life and death for granted. They have so many angels and people and even some demons that need something from them that they always manage to come back. Having to take that little girl, imo, showed Dean another side of Death. He isn't just Death, these deaths and souls have a greater meaning and reason.

                    And I think the writers probably anticipated us having some trouble agreeing on a side of Sam. They probably knew some of us would like soulless Sam and some of us would hate soulless Sam. Coming that close to killing Bobby was probably their way of making us all choose the side of souled Sam. I'm glad Sam got his soul back, but I don't think it's over. It's only going to progress. It's SPN- of course there are going to be 'complications'. As as for Cas, we already know he wasn't exactly 'in the loop' during the breaking of the seals and the Apocalypse. So he may never really have known about the true value of souls, and now he's too busy with the Civil War to overhear anything angels are saying about them, like Balthazar. I really want to find out about these souls. I'm not sure they've ever really hinted at their value before this season, even with all the deals we've seen made.

                    Ok, I think that's all my brain can manage right now.
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                      #25
                      It was one of the better episodes.

                      But what they're digging into has something to do with purgatory.

                      Death just wanted Dean to understand what he has to go through, and maybe be a little bit more respectful.

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                        #26
                        I've been wondering, and I'd like to know what you think. If the roles had been reversed, with Dean running around minus his soul, and Sam knowing what we do about the state it is in after all that time in the cage, do you think he would have made the same call? Forced the soul back into Dean's body, even against his will?

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                        Check out my SGA and Fringe fanfics on fanfiction.net

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by starg8fans View Post
                          I've been wondering, and I'd like to know what you think. If the roles had been reversed, with Dean running around minus his soul, and Sam knowing what we do about the state it is in after all that time in the cage, do you think he would have made the same call? Forced the soul back into Dean's body, even against his will?
                          Interesting question.

                          Well thinking of their differences and similarities, and for this I think they're more alike than not.

                          They're both single minded in their quests when they want to be.
                          They both love, and willingly sacrifice themselves for each other.
                          Neither of them listens to the other when previously they've been asked to leave the other one in the Pit.

                          I think the only difference is that Sam would have considered other avenues to persuade Dean to have his soul back before forcing it on him. He does have a history of being more resourceful in that area. I don't think the puppy eyes would have worked! but I think he would have tried a few other tricks. But ultimately he would have done it, if those ways failed.

                          After all...how can you leave your real brother being tortured for an eternity?
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                            #28
                            ^^ Agreed. I think in the end Sam would have done the same for Dean.
                            IMO always implied.

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by LoneStar1836 View Post
                              ^^ Agreed. I think in the end Sam would have done the same for Dean.
                              I agree also!
                              sigpic

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                                #30
                                Great episode. I love Tessa, so it's nice to see my favorite reaper from time to time!
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                                Stargate Chicago Con 2010 Attendee

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