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Thread: Enigma (116)

  1. #61
    Probie Hart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enigma (116)

    There was no compelling reason to protect the Earth from the Tollan. They had been cleared by the docs and, more importantly, they wanted to leave Earth! As for the Goa'uld threat, it'd be nice for some help from them, but it's not surprising, really. When does the group in power feel compelled to toss off its technology for one side in a war without any compelling reason to believe in their righteousness, especially considering the fact that despite what was told them, we were, in fact, imprisoning them (at least we thought we were) and flashing our weaponry at them every chance we got?

    The Tollans were right about sharing their technology with us. Everyone knows that we'd use it to bully the rest of the world and it coud easily get into multiple hands and consequently, could lead to planetary destruction just like what had already happened to the Tollans. Forget the Goa'uld. We'd take care of destroying Earth ourselves. The Tollan were solid about the decision not to share.

    Now, they could have dropped some of the attitude, particularly with Tuplo who was extending to them a very nice invitation. But upon reflection, it occurred to me that though the Tollan may have been more technologically advanced than us, there may have also been consequences to this. Their emotional capacity seemed different to ours.

    I believe this was reflected in Omac's seemingly bitter and "obstinate" attitude. I'm not so sure he meant it personally. I thought the Tollan were, perhaps, less emotional than humans. Maybe they think that's better; or, maybe they've lost something and wish they still had it.

    I say all of this because of the weird emotion recorder that Narim gave Sam. What's up with that? He couldn't communicate with her directly how he felt ... he had to give her some silly device. I'm sure that's normal in their world (though Narim seemed frustrated with not being able to communicate more successfully with Sam), but it's pretty freaky in ours. Possibly an indication of a trade off that may ultimately come with advances in other areas like increased technology.

    Would we give up our capacity to communicate love or to have empathy in order to be able to travel to other worlds or record emotions?

    As is typical with about every episode of Stargate, there was some inexcusable retardation. Number one: that such an advanced race would leave behind ten or twenty people for the dubious reason of burying the stargate. How's about burying it with your technology in about two hours and then getting the heck outta Dodge before Vesuvius pops its cap? Coming up with a legitimate explanation for why those select few were the only ones left would not have been that difficult.

    Number two: the Tollan's clothing and gadget designs were so cliche and so stupid. Why, of why, must so many alien races or technologically advanced peoples wear silly metallic uniforms that are begging to show off camel toes and stuff? And considering their technology, would they really wear such bulky, plasticky boxes all up and down their arms? They can walk through walls and send a messsage within a few hours to the Nox's planet which is probably millions, if not billions of light years away, but they can't explore the concept of miniaturization of their Blackberries and what not?

  2. #62
    First Lieutenant
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    Default Re: Enigma (116)

    erm, pegasus is still only millions of light years away, the nox planet was pretty close, a hundred at max

  3. #63
    Chief Master Sergeant HelloVelo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enigma (116)

    Did anyone else catch Daniel's "whoops" when he walked in on Sam and Narim. Hilarious.

    Rating: 9/10

    Full Review: http://stargatesummer.blogspot.com/2008/06/enigma.html
    My attempt to watch every episode of SG-1 and Atlantis this summer:
    http://stargatesummer.blogspot.com/

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Enigma (116)

    I just have to say:
    1. maybe the "bulky, plasticky boxes all up and down their arms" suits were protecting them from the effects of the erruption of the volcano or something;
    2. maybe there really was a ship on the way to rescue them;
    3. because I'm such a critic I just have to mention this goof: when Daniel gave his hand to Omac so that they could go through the wall, he was standing on Omac's left; but then, before they went through the wall, Daniel was standing on Omac's right (it just bugged me and had to say it);
    4. really liked this episode because:
    a) it introduces a new race of people, the Tollans (though they don't want to share anything with us, I can understand their reasons);
    b) Omac was a true leader, carring for his people's safety (wish we could've seen some more of him);
    Spoiler:
    those Goa'uld *******s just had to kill him

    c) it introduces Colonel Harry Maybourne, who is one of my favorite recurrent characters (he's just asking to be crossed in this episode);
    d) we get to see Lya again (the Nox are such a formidable race);
    e) we see some more of Sam's feminine side

  5. #65
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    Default Re: Enigma (116)

    The Tollans are not so great because:

    1. They can walk through walls and make long distance calls to other planets but they don't have the technology to protect themselves from the volcanoes? I mean, yeah so they explained why their planet is ruined. But surely they would have had enough time to build some kind of protective gears while evacuating, right? right? right?

    2. Tollans have ships but apparently slow. It was mentioned that it would take too long (lifetime?) to be able to travel from Earth to their new planet. Too bad the Enterprise is not around.

    3. Tollans don't know that the 8th chevron is for intergalactic travel. It was mentioned that they can't reach their new planet via the stargate.

    4. Tollan wear sucks. SG-1 has got them beat in style, IMO.

    5. Tollan has a very smug, arrogant and ungrateful leader. For crying out loud! SG1 saved their lives and not even a thank you? I can understand their wariness regarding technology but they should at least show some gratitude because people who didn't know them saved their highly advanced asses. I feel that SGC should have returned them where they found them.

    Why is the title of this ep Enigma? What is the enigma? The Tollans or their technology?

  6. #66
    Lieutenant Colonel captain jake's Avatar
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    Arrow2 Re: Enigma (116)

    Quote Originally Posted by L E E View Post
    The Tollans are not so great because:

    1. There can walk through walls and make long distance calls to other planets but they don't have the technology to protect themselves from the volcanoes? I mean, yeah so they explained why their planet is ruined. But surely they would have had enough time to build some kind of protective gears while evacuating, right? right? right?

    2. Tollans have ships but apparently slow. It was mentioned that it would take too long (lifetime?) to be able to travel from Earth to their new planet. Too bad the Enterprise is not around.

    3. Tollans don't know that the 8th chevron is for intergalactic travel. It was mentioned that they can't reach their new planet via the stargate.

    4. Tollan wear sucks. SG-1 has got them beat in style, IMO.

    5. Tollan has a very smug, arrogant and ungrateful leader. For crying out loud! SG1 saved their lives and not even a thank you? I can understand their wariness regarding technology but they should at least show some gratitude because people who didn't know them saved their highly advanced asses. I feel that SGC should have returned them where they found them.

    Why is the title of this ep Enigma? What is the enigma? The Tollans or their technology?
    First - Their planet was knocked off course everything was going haywire, they did hold off the destruction for some time as far as I know and it would seem that they had been evacuated for quite some time. It was just that last team that got caught up before they could disable the gate and a slight scheduling error with their transport.

    Second - The Tollans came from earth which means they have had no more than 10,000 years to evolve. We received our inter-planetary travel ships from the Asgard and the Goa'uld two cultures who had been around for a long long long time.

    Third - How do you know they didn't know that? I believe they didn't know that their kind had built a Stargate on their new planet. So when they said that it was outside the gate network, they were simply saying that there was no Stargate on that planet. They weren't saying that it was outside the galaxy, they couldn't go through the Stargate to a place where there was no gate at that time.

    Fourth - There is no accounting for taste.

    Fifth - High Chancellor Travell follows the ruling of the Curia (Except for when the Goa'uld threaten their planet, which would make any race do stupid things.) As for Omac he was extremely defensive of his people, which by the way he had reason to be. After all we were about to imprison his entire team.

    Finally we get to your question about the title. Perhaps it is SG-1's actions or Narim's actions. However personally I believe it is that we dialed that planet at that moment in time and met a new ally called the Tollan, a true enigma.
    Last edited by captain jake; June 30th, 2008 at 05:02 AM.

  7. #67
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    Default Re: Enigma (116)

    Quote Originally Posted by HelloVelo View Post
    Did anyone else catch Daniel's "whoops" when he walked in on Sam and Narim. Hilarious.
    Classic Daniel funny scene there.

    I liked this episode because it was the beginning of the story arc involving a new more powerful race then ourselves - the Tollan. In Stargate terms (at least at this point) being aware of the Goa'uld but not being afraid/bothered or an enemy of them is pretty amazing. Means that their technology could rival if not beat the Goa'uld.

    I'm in fully agree with captain jake, Omac was only protecting both the Tollans and SGC from themselves - giving people technology before they are ready to understand it and use it properly (as the destroy of their planets destruction went) can be deadly.

    It's not saying that they won't share their technology eventually just they will be limited on what they share (and the different things it can be used for) and that they will only do it when they think we are ready.

    First episode of Colonel Maybourne and more of an introduction about the NID, again the begins of a long association and story arc.

    All in all a good episode, and good to see The Nox and the people from the planet of the light again.

  8. #68
    Chief Master Sergeant ValaDee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enigma (116)

    Quote Originally Posted by captain jake View Post
    First - Their planet was knocked off course everything was going haywire, they did hold off the destruction for some time as far as I know and it would seem that they had been evacuated for quite some time. It was just that last team that got caught up before they could disable the gate and a slight scheduling error with their transport.

    Second - The Tollans came from earth which means they have had no more than 10,000 years to evolve. We received our inter-planetary travel ships from the Asgard and the Goa'uld two cultures who had been around for a long long long time.

    Third - How do you know they didn't know that? I believe they didn't know that their kind had built a Stargate on their new planet. So when they said that it was outside the gate network, they were simply saying that there was no Stargate on that planet. They weren't saying that it was outside the galaxy, they couldn't go through the Stargate to a place where there was no gate at that time.

    Fourth - There is no accounting for taste.

    Fifth - High Chancellor Travell follows the ruling of the Curia (Except for when the Goa'uld threaten their planet, which would make any race do stupid things.) As for Omac he was extremely defensive of his people, which by the way he had reason to be. After all we were about to imprison his entire team.

    Finally we get to your question about the title. Perhaps it is SG-1's actions or Narim's actions. However personally I believe it is that we dialed that planet at that moment in time and met a new ally called the Tollan, a true enigma.

    Your last sentence is so very true....

  9. #69
    Rush’s 500 Metre Dash Pic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enigma (116)

    OK, well.. these people have 70's-style space suits and chunky bracelets. They're clearly advanced.

    OK, I suppose I should out myself right here and now. If I were to claim to be a shipper, I'd Sam/Jack all the way. So right off the bat, Narim works my nerves. And Omoc is something that's akin to a donkey but probably gets mod'd here.

    Apparently you can determine how polite a society will be based on the level of it's technology. Just walk around and observe people using their cell phones if you don't believe me. Narim said thank you when he and Sam walked to the surface, but that's because he was hitting on Sam.
    Is it an angel? an eagle? a scientist? It's Carter-the-amazing! I'm going to give her a chunky emo!braclet and teach her about our kissing customs!
    *bleh
    And he knows French? Just say you don't know how to make a bed - accoutements? (sp?) whatever, dude.

    I can see the point of not sharing technology. Maybourne and his ilk proved Omoc had a point. It's the condescending nature of that refusal which rubbed me the wrong way.

    Yay for the Nox! I laughed out loud when the gate was activated and Hammond comes running down the spiral stair thing followed closely by Maybourne (and I mean CLOSELY). If Maybourne got any closer, he'd be giving the General a colonoscopy!

    But, all's well that ends well. Maybourne is mad and SG1 is happy (especially since Narim is gone).

  10. #70
    Chief Master Sergeant BeccaBeez's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enigma (116)

    Daniel's "Whoops" - LOL

    The Tollan were an interesting race, but I would consider them one of our most... frustrating 'allies'.
    ~~~~~ Meant to Be ~~~~~

  11. #71
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    Default Re: Enigma (116)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hart View Post

    The Tollans were right about sharing their technology with us. Everyone knows that we'd use it to bully the rest of the world and it coud easily get into multiple hands and consequently, could lead to planetary destruction just like what had already happened to the Tollans. Forget the Goa'uld. We'd take care of destroying Earth ourselves. The Tollan were solid about the decision not to share.
    I thought exactly the same, if Earth was given a new type of weapon (or a technology of weapon-potential) we'd blow ourselves up.

    Although, in the vast reaches of the universe where you have your galaxies, black holes, planetary systems and other assorted junk, Earth blowing up will be a tiny little atom on the edge of a little dust particle going 'pif'. I doubt anyone would notice on the grand scale of things.

    Anyway, I wholeheartedly agreed with the Tollans and understood Omoc. As rude as he was with Tuplo, he had a point. The others just didn't get it. I'm a huge Star Trek fan and grew up watching TNG, so not sharing technology with inferior races reminds me of the Prime Directive. Less evolved civilizations should not get their hands on technology they're not ready to use, because they would most likely use it to destroy themselves.

    I saw a documentary on the Hiroshima bombing a while ago and it seemed like they were more interested to test this device on humans than to use it as a political means to end the war. If the Tollans had given Earth a device akin to a weapon of mass destruction, like someone said, it would be pointed at Kremlin or the Middle East, and it most likely would've been used at the flimsiest excuse. There are about 245 countries in the world, most of which can't even say hello to each other.

    In the later episodes I thought the Tollans could've just pointed one ion cannon at the Stargate and fired through it, SGC could have just moved the gate. That way they could've had Earth the defence they needed (or 1/38th of it) while keeping Tollan technology safely on Tollana. Plus I kind of like the idea of anyone visiting Tollana will be greeted with the barrel of a big, honkin' ion cannon.

    I didn't think the Tollans were arrogant in calling us primitive, I found it accurate. Humans have striped tooth paste and nuclear weapons and we think we're the cleverest people anywhere, ever. I thought it was more arrogant for us to think we were on the Tollans' level.

    And I think Narim is the sweetest.

  12. #72
    Second Lieutenant Anda's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enigma (116)

    I tink the Tollans are a little pretentios for someone in theire position.

  13. #73
    First Lieutenant Ksya's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enigma (116)

    I dont really like this episode. True, it is kind of funny, and I liked the cat, and Daniel has horrible timing, but grr....when Narim gave Sam the device and they kissed I literally threw my water bottle at the screen and shouted, "NO! JACK IS SAM'S MAN!" LOL!

  14. #74
    Chief Master Sergeant ZOMG!b_cs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enigma (116)

    bleh

    The Tollans are condescending boobs. OK, I think they've got a point with Maybourne running around like he does, but they're still a pack of annoying people.

    Narim worked my nerves.

    Daniel was awesome, at least there's some redeeming value to pull out of this ep. If the Tollan had not been revisited in later episodes (as many people the team encounters are not) this would have been one of the most wasted episodes, IMO. The idea that a group of humans exceeded our technological advances is great, but I disliked the way they told that story.

  15. #75
    Probie Mortonpixie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enigma (116)

    I totally like Narim and think that he is sweet. I love the kiss and think that relationship and the fact that it can't work is the most redeeming part of this epi. Just me, though.

  16. #76
    Chief Master Sergeant ZOMG!b_cs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enigma (116)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mortonpixie View Post
    I totally like Narim and think that he is sweet. I love the kiss and think that relationship and the fact that it can't work is the most redeeming part of this epi. Just me, though.
    Narim wasn't that bad, I suppose. Overall I get the impression the writers didn't know what to do with a female character like Sam in those early years. They tried to tie her to different relationships that didn't really pan out.

  17. #77
    Staff Sergeant RononXSpecialist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enigma (116)

    Aha good ep. I love episodes with the Tollon in them, I totally wish i could walk threw walls lol. That would come in handy..
    To bad the Tollon are right we are a primitive society and untill we can come together as a planet we'll never be on their level of technology.

  18. #78
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    Default Re: Enigma (116)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrminarrd View Post
    And here we are talking about something much more important then going to the moon. To protect the earth and humanity I´d say that a lot is forgivable and justifiable .

    This is one of my few beef´s with SG-1, they tend to let emotions and "doing the right thing" get in the way of fulfilling their primary mission which is to protect earth.
    Even if we could ignore the moral considerations, there are two problems with the forcible approach you recommend.

    First, how can you be sure the Tollan team couldn't eventually tell their home planet about their treatment at our hands? Remember the communicator Omoc used to signal the Nox? Imagine him alerting the Tollan home planet instead. Now imagine the people there, who are far more technologically advanced than we are, becoming seriously annoyed with us Earthlings. I sure wouldn't want to answer for the consequences.

    Second, how would you wrest the secrets away from the Tollans? The team that was rescued may have no more knowledge of physics than Daniel Jackson would. After all, Dr. Jackson is an archeologist, not a physicist. Could he tell the natives on Abydos how to build the nuke that killed Ra? I doubt it. Similarly, a random group of Tollans is unlikely to have any experts in their technology.

    For these two reasons, especially the first, what the SG-1 team actually did was probably the wisest thing. It was the morally right thing to do as well, and I am satisfied.

  19. #79
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    Default Re: Enigma (116)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hira View Post
    i liked this eppy but i didn;t like the Tollans "leader". i thought that he was stuck up and rude. but all in all i thought it was a good eppy.
    Heh, Omoc was so hostile at first, I thought the Tollans might have been working for the Goa'uld.

  20. #80
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    Default Re: Enigma (116)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hart View Post
    But upon reflection, it occurred to me that though the Tollan may have been more technologically advanced than us, there may have also been consequences to this. Their emotional capacity seemed different to ours.
    I have an idea why the Tollans seem so stunted emotionally: their whole race went through extreme trauma when they lost their world. As Omoc said, their neighboring planet blew itself up, no doubt raining lethal fragments on the Tollans. One asteroid was enough to kill off all the dinosaurs here on Earth; imagine the cataclysm that a million fragments could wreak.

    Namir was astonished at seeing a bird, saying that his world (the new Tollan planet) did not have them. Looking back, I think he meant to say that birds, flowers, and many other beautiful things once existed on his former world but are gone forever. I can't imagine the profound sense of loss that he and all the other Tollans must feel. The trauma their whole race went through might explain why most of them seem so cold.

    This is my guess from what I have seen of Season One. I'm experiencing all the episodes for the very first time, so I could easily be wrong.

    It's been an excellent series so far!

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