Solution to battle simulation?

[RobertF]

So any thoughts about what the correct solution to Destiny's battle simulation conundrum might have been? Sort of like Captain Kirk reprogramming the Kobeyashi Maru test, Young in a sense "cheated" the simulation.

I thought Young (who surely must suspect Rush has some degree of control over the ship by now) would make Rush override the countdown clock and send Destiny into hyperspace.

[morbosfist]

Rush's control of the ship obviously wasn't factored into the simulation, otherwise Rush would have said something. Rush may want to keep it secret, but I think horrible, exploding death might make him reconsider.

I don't think there was a victory scenario. The computer was obviously cheating when it summoned more ships on the second attempt. "Cheating" would have been harder for Young, since they had no apparent way to modify the program.

[AquaGamer53]

I think that Young suspects Rush is up to something, but if he thought Rush was in control of Destiny, then he wouldn't let that happen.

As to the correct solution, I think it was what Scott did before they found out the simulations were made by Destiny. I think it was because Young was losing it that he wasn't able to do what Scott did right away (Arm weapons AND shut down non-essential systems to boost shields AND set up patrols). That was the most someone could do (with the amount of control of the ship that they believe they have) and for whatever reason, Young couldn't see that in his simulations, lost hope and gave up.

[Zatnikitelman]

The only winning move is not to play"
Seriously, have the crew stand down, let the smurfs invade and hope they don't kill anyone (only hang-up), then when they're least expecting it...BAM! Smack the smug growls right off the blue-guys' faces!
Yea, you're technically "playing" but I couldn't resist using the quote

[P-90_177]

Most likely when it comes down to it the Destiny was testing young on his conduct and confidence under fire. Testing his limitations. Hence why he was confronted with a new problem every time he made a choice. It was seeing how far he could go before he breaks and didn't know what to do. As it happens though........not very far in the end.

[garhkal]

The only winning move is not to play"
Seriously, have the crew stand down, let the smurfs invade and hope they don't kill anyone (only hang-up), then when they're least expecting it...BAM! Smack the smug growls right off the blue-guys' faces!
Yea, you're technically "playing" but I couldn't resist using the quote

Nice ref to wargames!

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

So any thoughts about what the correct solution to Destiny's battle simulation conundrum might have been? Sort of like Captain Kirk reprogramming the Kobeyashi Maru test, Young in a sense "cheated" the simulation.

I thought Young (who surely must suspect Rush has some degree of control over the ship by now) would make Rush override the countdown clock and send Destiny into hyperspace.

I don't believe there was ever meant to be a solution. I think the ship was pressing Young to accept that sometimes no matter what you do, you're going to fail and there's nothing you can do about it and there's no sense in killing yourself over it. It was an exercise in accepting failure. A perfect Kobayashi Maru.

[Azzers]

I actually don't subscribe to the unwinnable scenario theory. Now part of it could be the tech dialogue when they were describing it seemed vague enough. But the scenario itself seemed extremely logical in how it was lost each time. It didn't seem like "Avatar" where the game was simply "changing" to create defeat for Teal'c each time.

The first scenario was logical, the guns drained the sheilds causing collapse with only a few ships. Speaking of which, want to try concentrating your fire there Young? Yeesh. The second was equally logical. The sheilds held, but the ship was alive long enough for reinforcents to arrive. Boom again. The third scenario, the reinforcements arrive again on schedule, this time in the process of delivering Chloe. Chloe acts as a mole and a secret weapon and Boom a third time.

There were only three iterations that we saw, coupled with Franklin's final words so I actually prefer the theory that it was an actual probability scenario that was meant to be solved and wasn't. It was working with the CO to what possible solutions to try.

As for solutions, I think you can fake the aliens out a little with delaying the transfer of Chloe. If finding her can take 12 minutes out of 40 something (was it 44?), you could probably buy another 12-24 by allowing those aliens into the ship to pick up Chloe (first 12 - aliens to Chloe, next 12 Chloe back to ship. You've now eaten 36 minutes of clock. That leaves the shields with 8 minutes to withstand bombardment. In those 36 minutes however, if there's anything Rush can do to tweak the shields, they should be getting done in that time.

The lose scenario in that attempt is if the communication between Chloe and the aliens is immediate as soon as they are in proximity. But it would be another attempt to test. Essentially stall and betray. Would it work, I dunno. If it is truly an unwinnable test, then obviously not. If it's a probability excercise, it's worth a shot.

And remember, the Maru test includes the Klingons openning fire immediately. It's no win because there is absolutely no solution that does not include guns (or cheating) and in the test the student is supposed to be enormously outgunned and suprised. There's a LOT of wiggle room in the Destiny scenario.

[zainea13]

The only winning move is not to play"
Seriously, have the crew stand down, let the smurfs invade and hope they don't kill anyone (only hang-up), then when they're least expecting it...BAM! Smack the smug growls right off the blue-guys' faces!
Yea, you're technically "playing" but I couldn't resist using the quote

you did watch the episode right? when they did what the blues wanted i.e. turn over chloe. they invaded the ship and then killed everyone, even young who was meandering around harmlessly. they killed him.

[James71]

As for solutions, I think you can fake the aliens out a little with delaying the transfer of Chloe. If finding her can take 12 minutes out of 40 something (was it 44?), you could probably buy another 12-24 by allowing those aliens into the ship to pick up Chloe (first 12 - aliens to Chloe, next 12 Chloe back to ship. You've now eaten 36 minutes of clock. That leaves the shields with 8 minutes to withstand bombardment. In those 36 minutes however, if there's anything Rush can do to tweak the shields, they should be getting done in that time.

The lose scenario in that attempt is if the communication between Chloe and the aliens is immediate as soon as they are in proximity. But it would be another attempt to test. Essentially stall and betray. Would it work, I dunno. If it is truly an unwinnable test, then obviously not. If it's a probability excercise, it's worth a shot.

That was my plan for the 4th simulation attempt.

Play along with the aliens as if you are going to give them Chloe. Delay as long as possible to run down the FTL clock, then betray, keep Chloe and max out the shields to run out the clock.

In the 2nd scenario where the shields failed, the aliens had 44 minutes to work on them with 9 ships, then some period of time with the extra 6 ships.

If the crew could delay the attack for 30 minutes while arranging Chloe's transfer, then they would have only needed to survive for 14-15 minutes of being attacked by 15 ships.

It depends on how quickly the shields deplete under different scenarios.

[morsu]

I don't believe there was ever meant to be a solution. I think the ship was pressing Young to accept that sometimes no matter what you do, you're going to fail and there's nothing you can do about it and there's no sense in killing yourself over it. It was an exercise in accepting failure. A perfect Kobayashi Maru.

This. Perfectly Said.

[RobertF]

I don't believe there was ever meant to be a solution. I think the ship was pressing Young to accept that sometimes no matter what you do, you're going to fail and there's nothing you can do about it and there's no sense in killing yourself over it. It was an exercise in accepting failure. A perfect Kobayashi Maru.

I agree - and what use is a training simulation if you eventually win the scenario after 10 or 20 attempts? Real life doesn't offer you do-overs.

[garhkal]

I don't believe there was ever meant to be a solution. I think the ship was pressing Young to accept that sometimes no matter what you do, you're going to fail and there's nothing you can do about it and there's no sense in killing yourself over it. It was an exercise in accepting failure. A perfect Kobayashi Maru.

Kind of like how in the new Trek, spock made his one, to show that there should be fear in captains.

you did watch the episode right? when they did what the blues wanted i.e. turn over chloe. they invaded the ship and then killed everyone, even young who was meandering around harmlessly. they killed him.

well, since they DO want it, it made sense they would board to take it over.

[Hippaforalkus1]

From watching the episode, I'm guessing the ship has sensed a threat from another alien race ahead (maybe the one Telford's having a holiday with) and is mulling over how to evade both that threat and the pursuing blueberry's. I'd personally like to see destiny get the two alien groups fighting each other and then find a clever way to slip away while both are occupied.

[knowles2]

The solution the battle simulation it easy.

Turn Chloe into a suicide bomb, as soon as the aliens took her, blow her to smithereens an take out the alien shuttle with her. Then divert all power to to shields, an when I say all I mean all, life support, the lights, every single drop of power.

Withstand the bombardment until the shields are almost drained, then send out a surrrender message.
Lowers shields. When the aliens launch the shuttles, fire up the weapons target the shuttles, an docking where they launch from, which should be the weakness point in the ships ships.
Raise shield cut power to weapons an everything else an hope you gave the aliens enough to rethink there strategy an withhold fire long enough to jump into FTL.


Obviously you can stretch out Chloe part of the plan for as long as you can. To buy yourselves more time.