What is Rush up to?

[Kaiphantom]

Everybody on Destiny, and before that on Icarus, would work with Rush. They may not like him, but they would do it. The thing of it is, Rush will NOT work with them, unless he has a reason of his own or he is forced. He refuses to pass along basic findings. He speaks to them in insulting tones which makes it even more difficult for them to learn to work with him. This places everyone in jeopardy.

This is a valid complaint against Rush. From what we see, he was a lot like this while in Icarus, too. It's something that generally comes with higher intelligence: arrogance and elitism. The idea that, since I obviously know a whole lot more than you, and am greatly smarter than you, means I should be the ones making the decisions here. If that sounds bad, consider what would happen if you put Rainbow Lady from the youtube video in charge. So, neither extreme is particularly good, but logically speaking, you want your brightest people in charge, BUT you also need them to consider the feelings of those they are leading.

It's important to note that Rush is much like McKay in this regard, and in general. The only major difference is that Atlantis was an idealistic series, while SGU is a cynical one. In fact, even in Atlantis, McKay had quite a few moments where he acted much like Rush. Feeling he was the only one who could understand things, and that he needed to make the decisions, and that everyone else around him who wasn't as smart, was simply in the way. One particular episode stands out: Last Man, where Sheppard was sent several thousand years into the future. There, Mckay did marry and lost his wife, and what happened? He devoted his life to his work, ignoring everyone and everything else, much like Rush has done here.

So, Rush doesn't co-operate with anyone around him, keeps information from them, and keeps building up a personal wall between himself and they. And they are to be criticized because they cannot learn to work with him? That kinda' works against your theme, no?

Not quite. I'm not saying Rush is a saint, and I do agree he has issues (like most everyone else). If I were Young, I'd stick a guard on Rush 24/7, to follow him everywhere. I'd make it clear that, "You work with the other scientists and inform them of things. We're a team here, not a one-man army. It's okay if you feel you're the only one who can properly handle something, but you can't handle everything by yourself."

So Rush sees a problem prior to anyone else, of which he is only able to grasp a portion, and therefore he is supposed to be the only guy to be able to access the bridge? I think it means he is one of the people on Destiny who should be allowed on the bridge. And yes, people should get clarification on each system from Rush. I suspect that they're smart enough to do that

Heh, well, personally speaking, I think he should have informed people about the bridge, just by virtue of the fact that you can't keep a secret like that forever. But I don't think his position is without merit. Remember, no one else saw the power situation coming, and made things worse by pushing buttons all over the place. If I was in such a position where I saw things others couldn't, and saw people messing things up left and right because they didn't understand things I did... then I could see myself keeping something secret for awhile until I fully figured it out, and could properly train someone handle an aspect of it.

We do not know the differences of the sophistication of the technology available to them vs. what Rush has available on the bridge. I'm assuming it is pretty significant otherwise why was Rush so eager to find, gain access to and finally gain control of the bridge? That's one possible reason why they may not have given a warning to Young.

All we know right now, and have seen, is that the bridge can control the auto-pilot, and when and where Destiny jumps into FTL, as well as the ship's course. Pretty much everything else you can think of, you can access from the core room. And as we have seen several times, control for systems can be sent back and forth to various consoles. So people in the core room have access to life support, scanners, databases, shields, weapons, doors, etc. They just can't control the ship's course.

Another is that they hadn't quite got there, yet, but were about to when Rush sent his own radio message to Scott. Yet another is that they didn't do it at all because they had trust in Ancient technology (even the million year old variety), and that Rush would give the same kind of information which they themselves would give: as complete and well informed as possible, as reliable as possible, as honest as possible. Rush seems to have a problem giving up any kind of information, and what he does surrender is done so in a very grudging manner and in as small an amount as possible.

You bring up a conflicting point, though. As we've seen, people know Rush is smart, but they also know he doesn't share everything. Which means if they want to understand things, they pretty much have to do it themselves, somewhat like how Eli discovered the seeder ship had large energy reserves and could power the gate. So all evidence goes against the idea that they are sitting there, waiting for information from Rush alone; they are going through the systems learning what they can all the time. And if they were really completely trusting the Ancient technology, then they really are brain-dead stupid. Trusting the technology got them all killed once before (Destiny: "Hey guys, this Water planet is safe! Oh yeah, and this TIME planet is safe, too!"). So even if Destiny stopped at the Aftermath planet on it's own, they should realize by now that doesn't mean it's 100% safe, and thus it would behoove them to study up on it.

Sorry to change gears here, frankly I put that down to script edits and time considerations in shooting schedules. And it had to be Rush who supplies the warning, for purposes of story continuity.

Personally, I feel it's bad writing, made for the sole purpose of trying to make Rush look bad and give him some false guilt. They are trying to get the idea across to Rush that, "You trying to do this all alone is bad, because accidents are happening." There are better ways they could have written that, because it makes the other scientists look just as incompetent, and I hate that it does that. Just like I hated Young's LA decision making him look stupid. I felt there was a better way they could have written that, so it didn't come across as the LA taking the ship through Young's stupidity alone.

And yet, from what we have seen to date, it is Rush who cannot let go of his anger, hate resentment, suspicion and paranoia of others. The great irony is that it is Rush who will not work with others unless he has no other choice or he has some personal agenda for which it would be advantageous. Why is the onus always on everyone else to work with Rush, to forgive him for his failings, to take his relentless abuse and do so with something akin to adoration for his having noticed their worm-like existence?

Heh, never said they should. As I mentioned above, Rush needs to be more strongly encouraged to work with everyone. It's all about valid complaints vs. invalid complaints. It's okay to dislike him, as long as you dislike him for the correct reasons.

There's a lot of other people out there who "understand Rush completely". You do not happen to agree with all of them with regard to their perspectives on undertanding Rush.

Well, whoever is correct, should be able to predict Rush's actions with regards to circumstances. So why do I consider that I know him best? Because I believe I can more correctly predict what he will do in a situation. As I've said before, with Rush, it's cold logic in the context of the greater good. That means that if he has to sacrifice himself, he'll do it. The whole Subversion spy thing should prove that.

Greater Good #3: What is best for Nicholas Rush and his desire to know stuff at the cost of anything to anyone else.

#1 and #2 are correct, but #3 isn't; you can't define the greater good that way. By it's very definition, the greater good is something that positively affects the majority. It's strongly related to Utilitarianism, which we have to use because we are coming at this from Rush's point of view.

What if Rush was the only person who could complete the mission? How quick would he be to go and die for everyone else? Or would he spend as much time as possible looking an alternative, more complex solution before he went off and died for the greater good?

Depends on how much time is available to think of other options, but if he is the only one who can do it, he will. See: Subversion. I mean, they could have had someone else pretend to be Telford, but Rush knew that he was the one with Telford's memories of the LA, thus only he could go; despite the fact that he could be killed. He's not quite the monster some might think, and while he is on Destiny because it's his life's work, that's not all there is to him. There is an episode coming up called "Malice" that you might want to pay attention to as well.

The Faith people want to stay behind, but Rush wants to keep them, because they're needed for the greater good. Funny you mention this, as they are just additional mouths to feed and they're barely above a monkey in their smarts. You made such an effort to deride these people (in the sense of their being in that "other" scientist group. I believe your term was "idiots") and their possible contributions to the greater good, yet Rush saw a need for them which you apparently have missed. So much for understanding him *completely*. Sorry, that was perhaps a very Rush-like comment on my part... hey, maybe I'm understanding Rush better now!!

Should make it clear, I don't see them as idiots; just not as smart. I was only making the idiot point because people wanted to clear the scientists of blame with regards to Riley, and they could only do that IF the scientists were truly idiots(I don't believe they are, and Volker at least should have noted the planetary conditions). But worth isn't solely determined by smarts, either. People are needed to help fix the ship, to grow and look for food, etc. There are plenty of roles other people can take to contribute.

The whole Telford/LA thing was a bit of a shocker to me. I have to admit that it was a logical move and made perfect sense once I figured out the three Greater Goods (GG). Rush was in danger of dying during this mission... And if you recall, Rush does express concerns about the LA "knowing more about this ship than we do". Obviously, Rush was showing his concerns regarding him being able to pursue his own research should the LA make it to Destiny (a GG#3 situation).

You have to remember that, technically, the LA aren't a threat. As we saw, the gate room can be vacated of atmosphere, and thus any incursion can be instantly nullified. And they could have sent someone else to be Telford and make contact with the LA, but it had to be Rush, because he was the only one with memories. He knew he'd be risking death or worse, but it had to be him.

[Kaiphantom]

Part 2:

The Aftermath situation is very cold logic on Rush's part. We need food now so others must go and find it. "Others". Not Rush, others. And once again, for the GG#2 Rush was willing to be cavalier with other people's lives. Would it have killed him to have told Scott to wait a moment while he ran some additional scans or gave him a more precise description of what to expect? Not doing so contributed to the death of Riley. And how do we know they found any food, let alone food in sufficient quantities to feed around 100 people (including the LA types). The time frame (6 hours) for crashing on the planet, digging up the gate and then supposedly finding a bunch of food in what looks like a huge gravel pit seems a bit unrealistic.

It's not if you view it in the proper context. They had 7 hours, and it was a 1 hour trip each way. So they had 5 hours to see if they could get the gate working and/or find some food. If they couldn't, then they just come back and we count as a "well, at least we tried" kind of effort. As for "would it have killed Rush to tell Scott to wait" you have to remember that Rush thought it was safe enough, that it was within tolerances. Franklin only pointed out to Rush that he was missing things that might not make it as safe as he thought, only minutes before Scott actually got to the planet. Up until that point, Rush was convinced it was safe. If you tell a blind man it's safe to cross the street now, and yet he gets struck by a speeding car and killed halfway through, are you to blame? After all, you should have known there was a chance that a speeding car could come along. You just killed the blind man!

And yes, "others" because would you really send your smartest head scientist guy to the planet instead of keeping him working on Destiny's more advanced systems? I would have sent Brody, and perhaps park, since they have engineering as part of their skillset. Volker actually didn't make much sense to me, since he is an astrophysicist, unless he has knowledge of how the gates work.

Pretty much in agreement here. The thing of it is, Rush has had many opportunities to be a kinder and gentler Rush, and he keeps passing them by. People have made overtures to Rush, including Young. We all see (and understand) Rush's failings and why he is the way he is. Some of us like the character as a flawed hero. Others like the character as merely a flawed human being.

I will say that, after Human, Rush seemed to be softening up. But it appears that the torture, combined with Young's inept handling of the LA situation (and his general dictatorship that Telford was calling him out on), have affected his decisions, and now he's bottling things up again. If Rush could get over his torture, get some sleep, and if Young would soften up, then I think we'd see Rush start to become more human again.

[garhkal]

This is a valid complaint against Rush. From what we see, he was a lot like this while in Icarus, too. It's something that generally comes with higher intelligence: arrogance and elitism. The idea that, since I obviously know a whole lot more than you, and am greatly smarter than you, means I should be the ones making the decisions here.

There are alot of people like that in society, from politicians to religious leaders. It is not just linked to great intellect. But with rush, i find that he was always an outcast, which is how it seems he likes it.

[QUOTE=Kaiphantom;12016496]
It's important to note that Rush is much like McKay in this regard, and in general. The only major difference is that Atlantis was an idealistic series, while SGU is a cynical one. In fact, even in Atlantis, McKay had quite a few moments where he acted much like Rush. Feeling he was the only one who could understand things, and that he needed to make the decisions, and that everyone else around him who wasn't as smart, was simply in the way. One particular episode stands out: Last Man, where Sheppard was sent several thousand years into the future. There, Mckay did marry and lost his wife, and what happened? He devoted his life to his work, ignoring everyone and everything else, much like Rush has done here.[/quoe]

Agreed. heck, how many times did he berate everyone else for not seeing/helping, when he rarely asked for any help. Look to the ep where he blew up that solar system. He felt he was BETTER than the ones who MADE the technology. Or later when it took Daniel jackson to help them find Janus's lair, but he didn't even give him credit for that...

Not quite. I'm not saying Rush is a saint, and I do agree he has issues (like most everyone else). If I were Young, I'd stick a guard on Rush 24/7, to follow him everywhere. I'd make it clear that, "You work with the other scientists and inform them of things. We're a team here, not a one-man army. It's okay if you feel you're the only one who can properly handle something, but you can't handle everything by yourself."

I can agree. BUT i would also let the others know they need to grow backbone and get IN rush's face about teaching them. THEN i would also tell them to NOT touch strange new stuff till Rush as had a chance at it first.

Heh, well, personally speaking, I think he should have informed people about the bridge, just by virtue of the fact that you can't keep a secret like that forever. But I don't think his position is without merit. Remember, no one else saw the power situation coming, and made things worse by pushing buttons all over the place. If I was in such a position where I saw things others couldn't, and saw people messing things up left and right because they didn't understand things I did... then I could see myself keeping something secret for awhile until I fully figured it out, and could properly train someone handle an aspect of it.

Also as mentioned elsewhere, rush has seen what happens when something gets out. See how quickly a secret he entrusted to eli got to young and everyone else.