Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 76

Thread: Gates and Power

  1. #1
    Second Lieutenant
    Member Since
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    417

    Default Gates and Power

    Maybe I missed something, but...

    The argument goes, ZPM's can't do this, the Asgard couldn't have done that, the wormhole drive isn't capable of something or other... seen it in various threads.

    Yet Destiny is what? million+ years old? So how come a ship seemingly much older than Destiny, with million+ year old tech can power Destiny's old style gate to dial earth, but tech and power supplies a million+ years more advanced supposedly can't?

    And, why can Destiny's gate even make that connection? I thought Destiny style gates were all short range. Does that mean all the gates if given enough power can do that?

  2. #2
    First Lieutenant themeatcleaver's Avatar
    Member Since
    May 2010
    Posts
    990

    Default Re: Gates and Power

    i was more concerned with the fact that they had all that power and were trying(and succeeding) to steal ours! what are they trying to accomplish?

  3. #3
    First Lieutenant Kaiphantom's Avatar
    Member Since
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Airlocking sociopathic gates
    Posts
    879

    Default Re: Gates and Power

    It may be short range, but the implication is that with enough power, it's possible to dial all the way back to Earth. Technically speaking, the Ancients probably would have used several ZPM's in tandem to dial Destiny when the time came; that's power that Earth doesn't have (I think we only have one or two ZPM's). Perhaps they could have drawn power straight from the sun.

    We simply don't have their power generation capabilities, even if we have some of their tech.

    The Asgard are gone, but they might have had the ability to make power sources capable of dialing destiny. That's an interesting point, though; we have their database, so there should be some method of power generation in there. Whether or not we can build it is another question.

  4. #4
    Chief Master Sergeant
    Member Since
    Oct 2010
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    213

    Default Re: Gates and Power

    in Unending, Carter was able to convert the teleporter into a replicator. She has probaly figured out how to do that again so they can just use that to make anything that they need.

  5. #5
    Chief Master Sergeant
    Member Since
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    128

    Default Re: Gates and Power

    You're forgetting that those aliens were aboard. We have no idea how they got there, how long they'd been there or what their purpose was. But, perhaps they had something to do with the increased power levels. The original design of the seeder ship may not have had sufficient power, but the aliens may have made some modifications.

    We won't really ever know unless Destiny goes back to the seeder ship, meets up with another seeder or they run into the aliens again.

  6. #6
    Second Lieutenant
    Member Since
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    417

    Default Re: Gates and Power

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiphantom View Post
    It may be short range, but the implication is that with enough power, it's possible to dial all the way back to Earth.
    So then, would the implication of the implication be that the Blues could dial destiny from any of the gates on the planets out of range? Same for the stranded LA? They would need only a relatively small power boost compared the demands to get to earth. Even if out of range, they are in the neighborhood so to speak.
    Technically speaking, the Ancients probably would have used several ZPM's in tandem to dial Destiny when the time came; that's power that Earth doesn't have (I think we only have one or two ZPM's). Perhaps they could have drawn power straight from the sun. We simply don't have their power generation capabilities, even if we have some of their tech.
    I don't know, just doesn't seem to satisfy my inner geek that tech 1 million years more advanced can't do what a million year old solar powered ship can. Do Destiny class ships even generate power or simply store them in capacitors? We can make those can't we?

    Not to mention a gate boosting galaxy dialing O'neill device is powered by a single staff weapon.

  7. #7
    Captain morbosfist's Avatar
    Member Since
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,693

    Default Re: Gates and Power

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Asgard_live View Post
    So then, would the implication of the implication be that the Blues could dial destiny from any of the gates on the planets out of range? Same for the stranded LA? They would need only a relatively small power boost compared the demands to get to earth. Even if out of range, they are in the neighborhood so to speak.

    I don't know, just doesn't seem to satisfy my inner geek that tech 1 million years more advanced can't do what a million year old solar powered ship can. Do Destiny class ships even generate power or simply store them in capacitors? We can make those can't we?

    Not to mention a gate boosting galaxy dialing O'neill device is powered by a single staff weapon.
    O'Neill's device used the full charge of a staff weapon power cell, and those things are made to basically never need recharging.

    The seed ships have very little need for living space. That's a lot more internal volume for power storage.

  8. #8
    Staff Sergeant Abiron's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Fairview Park, OH
    Posts
    88

    Default Re: Gates and Power

    Quote Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
    O'Neill's device used the full charge of a staff weapon power cell, and those things are made to basically never need recharging.

    The seed ships have very little need for living space. That's a lot more internal volume for power storage.
    I have always assumed that O'Neill overloaded the liquid naquadah from the staff weapon in a single concentrated burst. It apparently fried the device. And it wasn't providing all of the power necessary for the gate, just a boost in addition to whatever else it could draw from whatever reactor(s) it's already hooked up to.

    As for the seeders, my guess is that the gate factory takes a lot more power than all of the other systems combined. With that offline, there should be plenty of spare juice.

  9. #9
    Second Lieutenant
    Member Since
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    417

    Default Re: Gates and Power

    Quote Originally Posted by themeatcleaver View Post
    i was more concerned with the fact that they had all that power and were trying(and succeeding) to steal ours! what are they trying to accomplish?
    I didn't read much into it other than they simply reversed the process.
    Quote Originally Posted by HaMm3r
    You're forgetting that those aliens were aboard. We have no idea how they got there, how long they'd been there or what their purpose was. But, perhaps they had something to do with the increased power levels. The original design of the seeder ship may not have had sufficient power, but the aliens may have made some modifications.
    Its possible they did, however none of the science geeks seemed to express that thought. They didn't act like anything was out of the ordinary, more like the ship was just more fully charged than Destiny.
    Quote Originally Posted by morbofist
    O'Neill's device used the full charge of a staff weapon power cell, and those things are made to basically never need recharging.

    The seed ships have very little need for living space. That's a lot more internal volume for power storage.
    Yes, but the staff weapons were a dime a dozen. I'm just pointing out how little power was required and how easy it was to come by.

    Interesting theory on the internal volume. However, that extra volume is likely taken up by the stargate factory and raw materials storage? Also, other than for the production of stargates, why would that ship need huge power reserves, as you point out, its not a human crew ship.

  10. #10
    First Lieutenant Kaiphantom's Avatar
    Member Since
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Airlocking sociopathic gates
    Posts
    879

    Default Re: Gates and Power

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Asgard_live View Post
    So then, would the implication of the implication be that the Blues could dial destiny from any of the gates on the planets out of range? Same for the stranded LA? They would need only a relatively small power boost compared the demands to get to earth. Even if out of range, they are in the neighborhood so to speak.
    They'd need the 9 chevron address to dial Destiny, but yes, if the Blues could work the stargates and provide sufficient power, they should be able to board Destiny.

    I don't know, just doesn't seem to satisfy my inner geek that tech 1 million years more advanced can't do what a million year old solar powered ship can. Do Destiny class ships even generate power or simply store them in capacitors? We can make those can't we?
    There are a few things you need to keep in mind: Destiny and the seeder ships are recharged via those special things that lower under the "wings." Destiny only has one set of those working (we only see one set lower when it dips into the sun). Destiny's batteries are also deteriorated or damaged that they can only hold about 40% of their normal power load. The seeder ship had all it's capacitors fully charged. What they did was try to channel the seeder ship's power directly to the gate along with Destiny's current reserve.

    But I'm not sure where you're getting the "tech 1 million years more advanced" part from. What are you thinking of? The only power source that's 1 million more years advanced is the ZPM. And we simply don't have enough of them to generate the power needed to dial destiny. Essentially, 1 ZPM produces less power than a Naquadria-laced Icarus planet. Remember, the ancients used 3 ZPM's to fully power Atlantis. You're assuming ZPM's are the be-all, end-all of power generation, but we don't really know. ZPM's seem to be a handy battery, in that you can carry it in one hand and it can provide a lot of power for a city. But they do have limits; Atlantis's shield would have been drained in a matter of hours with the Asuran beam on it, even with a ZPM.

  11. #11
    Second Lieutenant
    Member Since
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    417

    Default Re: Gates and Power

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiphantom View Post
    There are a few things you need to keep in mind: Destiny and the seeder ships are recharged via those special things that lower under the "wings." Destiny only has one set of those working (we only see one set lower when it dips into the sun). Destiny's batteries are also deteriorated or damaged that they can only hold about 40% of their normal power load. The seeder ship had all it's capacitors fully charged. What they did was try to channel the seeder ship's power directly to the gate along with Destiny's current reserve.
    Agreed. Let me clarify what I was saying though.

    Destiny is old, but broke. I know.
    Seeder ship is older, but seemingly intact and what Destiny should be (power wise)

    Both ships power themselves the same way. That 'way' appears to be to simply store energy. For simplicity sake, they are ships that seem to be like giant rechargeable batteries that plug themselves into the sun to recharge. The magic seems to be in the fact that they are large batteries not how they charge them. No naquida-ion-naquadria-zpm blah blah needed.
    But I'm not sure where you're getting the "tech 1 million years more advanced" part from. What are you thinking of? The only power source that's 1 million more years advanced is the ZPM. And we simply don't have enough of them to generate the power needed to dial destiny.
    Its not about the generation though, its about the storage. So this begs the question. The ancients 1 million years ago give or take, built ships that when fully powered had the power by your calculations of 'several' zpms. 1 million years later their ships are powered with tech less powerful than a single zpm? Aurora class?

    In other words, a fully charged destiny with shields should be able to hold off an attack by the wraith for how long? Why wouldn't they just fly Atlantis into the sun, park it there, use the scoopers and never leave. They could fend off an attack as long as the sun was viable, indefinitely.

    Its like there is a disconnect, power supply/storage got less efficient the more advanced they got? and not just like 20 or 50 years, but 1,000,000 years advancement

  12. #12
    General
    Member Since
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    20,102

    Default Re: Gates and Power

    Well, there is a chance that Ancient society regressed through the millions of years that they existed. The Plague seemed to have created a bottleneck, majorly breaking down Ancient culture and society. Technology could've gotten less efficient as knowledge is lost.

    On the other hand, this could also be explained by the difference in purposes. The Destiny is supposedly a very important ship designed to last for millions of years out in the Universe alone; it needs the power for that mission. Auroras were dime a dozen (relatively speaking) and made for battles alongside other Ancient ships in a galaxy filled with Ancients.

    Also, ZPMs are better in the sense that you can have spares, so that if your current one runs out of juice, you can just replace it mid-mission. If Destiny ran out of sun power before it got to another star, then it's pretty much screwed.

  13. #13
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2007
    Location
    My Throne in Heaven
    Posts
    18,742

    Default Re: Gates and Power

    what if the ancient's advancement, represented in a graph, becomes asymptotic along the time axis?

    shortly said, the more advanced you are, the harder it becomes to become more advanced. what if the ancients, around their HEIGHT (of their empire, as stated by the writers, when Destiny was launched), were pretty much with their head against the ceiling, so to speak.

    let's not forget that while a ZPM is a tiny device with a lot of power, it's possible Destiny has a self-contained region of subspace used for power STORAGE, the size of several rooms?

  14. #14
    Second Lieutenant
    Member Since
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    417

    Default Re: Gates and Power

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    what if the ancient's advancement, represented in a graph, becomes asymptotic along the time axis?

    shortly said, the more advanced you are, the harder it becomes to become more advanced. what if the ancients, around their HEIGHT (of their empire, as stated by the writers, when Destiny was launched), were pretty much with their head against the ceiling, so to speak.
    This would be true if knowledge is finite and the more you know the less there is to learn/advance. That doesn't seem to be the case though.
    let's not forget that while a ZPM is a tiny device with a lot of power, it's possible Destiny has a self-contained region of subspace used for power STORAGE, the size of several rooms?
    A ZPM the size of several rooms? There is nothing from SGU that suggests thats how power is stored on Destiny. Also my understanding of a ZPM is that you can not recharge them, ZPM size, or room size.

  15. #15
    Chief Master Sergeant coZma's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2009
    Location
    my mind
    Posts
    154

    Default Re: Gates and Power

    We don't really know what it takes to construct a ship like Destiny. Tapping the power of stars may require specialized shields that are not adequate for combat and creating shields that work fine for both tasks might be so hard that it's not worth it.The ancients left after the plague might not had the resources and the man power to build more. Or maybe they developed shields that were impenetrable with less power delivered to them and the capability of storing so much energy was not necessary anymore. I mean with all that power and Destiny's shield doesn't seem to be more powerful than that of a Ha'tak. Once they made advancement in shield technology and in more energy efficient systems they figured that they'll do just fine powered only by ZPMs.
    "Gegen diesen Idioten muss ich verlieren!" (A. Nimzowitsch)
    http://www.signaturebar.com/uploads/images/71015.jpg

  16. #16
    Major General
    Member Since
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    13,249

    Default Re: Gates and Power

    I think with these gates, it is more that the additional power unlocks the gates capacity to go further... and as to why they needed the seeder ship, i feel it is cause if i hae one hose with holes in (remember destinies power conduits are damaged), i won't get all the water out i need. BUT if i have 2, i will...

  17. #17
    Airman blueintegraboy's Avatar
    Member Since
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Hawaii
    Posts
    38

    Default Re: Gates and Power

    Anybody figure out why the Atlantis gate was the only gate in the Pegasus that was capable of dialing Earth, while the Asuran gate could not even though they had many ZPMs?

    I mean, if we are saying that any gate can go anywhere with enough energy, then why did the Asurans not go to Earth?

  18. #18
    Lieutenant Colonel MattSilver 3k's Avatar
    Member Since
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Space. I'm in space.
    Posts
    4,202

    Default Re: Gates and Power

    Quote Originally Posted by blueintegraboy View Post
    Anybody figure out why the Atlantis gate was the only gate in the Pegasus that was capable of dialing Earth, while the Asuran gate could not even though they had many ZPMs?

    I mean, if we are saying that any gate can go anywhere with enough energy, then why did the Asurans not go to Earth?
    A special control crystal was required if I recall correctly.
    ~ When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take back the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! WITH THE LEMONS! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that BURNS YOUR HOUSE DOWN! ~

    ~ Burning people! He says what we're all thinking! ~

  19. #19
    Airman blueintegraboy's Avatar
    Member Since
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Hawaii
    Posts
    38

    Default Re: Gates and Power

    Quote Originally Posted by MattSilver 3k View Post
    A special control crystal was required if I recall correctly.
    So the Pegasus gates were built with a lock-out to dial Earth. I guess they were stargate v.3, so I guess they could have been built like that.

  20. #20
    Chief Master Sergeant Hohenzollern's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jul 2004
    Location
    San Antonio de Bexar - Paratime Theta
    Posts
    180

    Default Re: Gates and Power

    Most importantly; the power reversal... Rush is now quite obsessed knowing what Destiny's true mission is (Aftermath). He was unfazed by the gate foundry; and the new Alien standing right there; as he worked on the console.

    Consider how he, again, as in first season was maneuvering for the crew to get off/home and he is left behind alone. When it became obvious Young would not allow this (stated he was sending reinforcements); Rush initiated the power reversal to kill the gate possibly sending EVERYONE home (Young would have taken Rush back); and thus everyone continuing (with Rush) on Destiny. Re Rush's "conscience?Franklin?" comments at the epilogue.
    "Let's make it TEN. Ten's a nice...round...number..." -- Morty

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 17
    Last Post: February 23rd, 2011, 05:05 PM
  2. Why do Pegasus gates look different to MiklyWay gates?
    By mrwhite2 in forum General Stargate Discussion
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: March 3rd, 2008, 12:42 AM
  3. Power to the space gates?
    By AsgardCarnage in forum Stargate Atlantis
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: May 7th, 2005, 10:52 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •