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    Gates and Power

    Maybe I missed something, but...

    The argument goes, ZPM's can't do this, the Asgard couldn't have done that, the wormhole drive isn't capable of something or other... seen it in various threads.

    Yet Destiny is what? million+ years old? So how come a ship seemingly much older than Destiny, with million+ year old tech can power Destiny's old style gate to dial earth, but tech and power supplies a million+ years more advanced supposedly can't?

    And, why can Destiny's gate even make that connection? I thought Destiny style gates were all short range. Does that mean all the gates if given enough power can do that?

    #2
    i was more concerned with the fact that they had all that power and were trying(and succeeding) to steal ours! what are they trying to accomplish?

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      #3
      It may be short range, but the implication is that with enough power, it's possible to dial all the way back to Earth. Technically speaking, the Ancients probably would have used several ZPM's in tandem to dial Destiny when the time came; that's power that Earth doesn't have (I think we only have one or two ZPM's). Perhaps they could have drawn power straight from the sun.

      We simply don't have their power generation capabilities, even if we have some of their tech.

      The Asgard are gone, but they might have had the ability to make power sources capable of dialing destiny. That's an interesting point, though; we have their database, so there should be some method of power generation in there. Whether or not we can build it is another question.

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        #4
        in Unending, Carter was able to convert the teleporter into a replicator. She has probaly figured out how to do that again so they can just use that to make anything that they need.

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          #5
          You're forgetting that those aliens were aboard. We have no idea how they got there, how long they'd been there or what their purpose was. But, perhaps they had something to do with the increased power levels. The original design of the seeder ship may not have had sufficient power, but the aliens may have made some modifications.

          We won't really ever know unless Destiny goes back to the seeder ship, meets up with another seeder or they run into the aliens again.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Kaiphantom View Post
            It may be short range, but the implication is that with enough power, it's possible to dial all the way back to Earth.
            So then, would the implication of the implication be that the Blues could dial destiny from any of the gates on the planets out of range? Same for the stranded LA? They would need only a relatively small power boost compared the demands to get to earth. Even if out of range, they are in the neighborhood so to speak.
            Technically speaking, the Ancients probably would have used several ZPM's in tandem to dial Destiny when the time came; that's power that Earth doesn't have (I think we only have one or two ZPM's). Perhaps they could have drawn power straight from the sun. We simply don't have their power generation capabilities, even if we have some of their tech.
            I don't know, just doesn't seem to satisfy my inner geek that tech 1 million years more advanced can't do what a million year old solar powered ship can. Do Destiny class ships even generate power or simply store them in capacitors? We can make those can't we?

            Not to mention a gate boosting galaxy dialing O'neill device is powered by a single staff weapon.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by The_Asgard_live View Post
              So then, would the implication of the implication be that the Blues could dial destiny from any of the gates on the planets out of range? Same for the stranded LA? They would need only a relatively small power boost compared the demands to get to earth. Even if out of range, they are in the neighborhood so to speak.

              I don't know, just doesn't seem to satisfy my inner geek that tech 1 million years more advanced can't do what a million year old solar powered ship can. Do Destiny class ships even generate power or simply store them in capacitors? We can make those can't we?

              Not to mention a gate boosting galaxy dialing O'neill device is powered by a single staff weapon.
              O'Neill's device used the full charge of a staff weapon power cell, and those things are made to basically never need recharging.

              The seed ships have very little need for living space. That's a lot more internal volume for power storage.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by morbosfist View Post
                O'Neill's device used the full charge of a staff weapon power cell, and those things are made to basically never need recharging.

                The seed ships have very little need for living space. That's a lot more internal volume for power storage.
                I have always assumed that O'Neill overloaded the liquid naquadah from the staff weapon in a single concentrated burst. It apparently fried the device. And it wasn't providing all of the power necessary for the gate, just a boost in addition to whatever else it could draw from whatever reactor(s) it's already hooked up to.

                As for the seeders, my guess is that the gate factory takes a lot more power than all of the other systems combined. With that offline, there should be plenty of spare juice.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by themeatcleaver View Post
                  i was more concerned with the fact that they had all that power and were trying(and succeeding) to steal ours! what are they trying to accomplish?
                  I didn't read much into it other than they simply reversed the process.
                  Originally posted by HaMm3r
                  You're forgetting that those aliens were aboard. We have no idea how they got there, how long they'd been there or what their purpose was. But, perhaps they had something to do with the increased power levels. The original design of the seeder ship may not have had sufficient power, but the aliens may have made some modifications.
                  Its possible they did, however none of the science geeks seemed to express that thought. They didn't act like anything was out of the ordinary, more like the ship was just more fully charged than Destiny.
                  Originally posted by morbofist
                  O'Neill's device used the full charge of a staff weapon power cell, and those things are made to basically never need recharging.

                  The seed ships have very little need for living space. That's a lot more internal volume for power storage.
                  Yes, but the staff weapons were a dime a dozen. I'm just pointing out how little power was required and how easy it was to come by.

                  Interesting theory on the internal volume. However, that extra volume is likely taken up by the stargate factory and raw materials storage? Also, other than for the production of stargates, why would that ship need huge power reserves, as you point out, its not a human crew ship.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by The_Asgard_live View Post
                    So then, would the implication of the implication be that the Blues could dial destiny from any of the gates on the planets out of range? Same for the stranded LA? They would need only a relatively small power boost compared the demands to get to earth. Even if out of range, they are in the neighborhood so to speak.
                    They'd need the 9 chevron address to dial Destiny, but yes, if the Blues could work the stargates and provide sufficient power, they should be able to board Destiny.

                    I don't know, just doesn't seem to satisfy my inner geek that tech 1 million years more advanced can't do what a million year old solar powered ship can. Do Destiny class ships even generate power or simply store them in capacitors? We can make those can't we?
                    There are a few things you need to keep in mind: Destiny and the seeder ships are recharged via those special things that lower under the "wings." Destiny only has one set of those working (we only see one set lower when it dips into the sun). Destiny's batteries are also deteriorated or damaged that they can only hold about 40% of their normal power load. The seeder ship had all it's capacitors fully charged. What they did was try to channel the seeder ship's power directly to the gate along with Destiny's current reserve.

                    But I'm not sure where you're getting the "tech 1 million years more advanced" part from. What are you thinking of? The only power source that's 1 million more years advanced is the ZPM. And we simply don't have enough of them to generate the power needed to dial destiny. Essentially, 1 ZPM produces less power than a Naquadria-laced Icarus planet. Remember, the ancients used 3 ZPM's to fully power Atlantis. You're assuming ZPM's are the be-all, end-all of power generation, but we don't really know. ZPM's seem to be a handy battery, in that you can carry it in one hand and it can provide a lot of power for a city. But they do have limits; Atlantis's shield would have been drained in a matter of hours with the Asuran beam on it, even with a ZPM.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Kaiphantom View Post
                      There are a few things you need to keep in mind: Destiny and the seeder ships are recharged via those special things that lower under the "wings." Destiny only has one set of those working (we only see one set lower when it dips into the sun). Destiny's batteries are also deteriorated or damaged that they can only hold about 40% of their normal power load. The seeder ship had all it's capacitors fully charged. What they did was try to channel the seeder ship's power directly to the gate along with Destiny's current reserve.
                      Agreed. Let me clarify what I was saying though.

                      Destiny is old, but broke. I know.
                      Seeder ship is older, but seemingly intact and what Destiny should be (power wise)

                      Both ships power themselves the same way. That 'way' appears to be to simply store energy. For simplicity sake, they are ships that seem to be like giant rechargeable batteries that plug themselves into the sun to recharge. The magic seems to be in the fact that they are large batteries not how they charge them. No naquida-ion-naquadria-zpm blah blah needed.
                      But I'm not sure where you're getting the "tech 1 million years more advanced" part from. What are you thinking of? The only power source that's 1 million more years advanced is the ZPM. And we simply don't have enough of them to generate the power needed to dial destiny.
                      Its not about the generation though, its about the storage. So this begs the question. The ancients 1 million years ago give or take, built ships that when fully powered had the power by your calculations of 'several' zpms. 1 million years later their ships are powered with tech less powerful than a single zpm? Aurora class?

                      In other words, a fully charged destiny with shields should be able to hold off an attack by the wraith for how long? Why wouldn't they just fly Atlantis into the sun, park it there, use the scoopers and never leave. They could fend off an attack as long as the sun was viable, indefinitely.

                      Its like there is a disconnect, power supply/storage got less efficient the more advanced they got? and not just like 20 or 50 years, but 1,000,000 years advancement

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Well, there is a chance that Ancient society regressed through the millions of years that they existed. The Plague seemed to have created a bottleneck, majorly breaking down Ancient culture and society. Technology could've gotten less efficient as knowledge is lost.

                        On the other hand, this could also be explained by the difference in purposes. The Destiny is supposedly a very important ship designed to last for millions of years out in the Universe alone; it needs the power for that mission. Auroras were dime a dozen (relatively speaking) and made for battles alongside other Ancient ships in a galaxy filled with Ancients.

                        Also, ZPMs are better in the sense that you can have spares, so that if your current one runs out of juice, you can just replace it mid-mission. If Destiny ran out of sun power before it got to another star, then it's pretty much screwed.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          what if the ancient's advancement, represented in a graph, becomes asymptotic along the time axis?

                          shortly said, the more advanced you are, the harder it becomes to become more advanced. what if the ancients, around their HEIGHT (of their empire, as stated by the writers, when Destiny was launched), were pretty much with their head against the ceiling, so to speak.

                          let's not forget that while a ZPM is a tiny device with a lot of power, it's possible Destiny has a self-contained region of subspace used for power STORAGE, the size of several rooms?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by thekillman View Post
                            what if the ancient's advancement, represented in a graph, becomes asymptotic along the time axis?

                            shortly said, the more advanced you are, the harder it becomes to become more advanced. what if the ancients, around their HEIGHT (of their empire, as stated by the writers, when Destiny was launched), were pretty much with their head against the ceiling, so to speak.
                            This would be true if knowledge is finite and the more you know the less there is to learn/advance. That doesn't seem to be the case though.
                            let's not forget that while a ZPM is a tiny device with a lot of power, it's possible Destiny has a self-contained region of subspace used for power STORAGE, the size of several rooms?
                            A ZPM the size of several rooms? There is nothing from SGU that suggests thats how power is stored on Destiny. Also my understanding of a ZPM is that you can not recharge them, ZPM size, or room size.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              We don't really know what it takes to construct a ship like Destiny. Tapping the power of stars may require specialized shields that are not adequate for combat and creating shields that work fine for both tasks might be so hard that it's not worth it.The ancients left after the plague might not had the resources and the man power to build more. Or maybe they developed shields that were impenetrable with less power delivered to them and the capability of storing so much energy was not necessary anymore. I mean with all that power and Destiny's shield doesn't seem to be more powerful than that of a Ha'tak. Once they made advancement in shield technology and in more energy efficient systems they figured that they'll do just fine powered only by ZPMs.
                              "Gegen diesen Idioten muss ich verlieren!" (A. Nimzowitsch)

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